Soil transplants for bad spots?

[SD51555]

I have spots in my tree lines where I’ve had back to back trees die. They die in these spots when I otherwise have 95% or better success elsewhere. I’m considering digging out the soil and dumping a new cart of native soil in that spot.

Normally I wouldn’t screw around this much to get a spruce tree growing, but I need lines and symmetry and I’m running out of time for height symmetry.

Will it work?

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[Hoytvectrix]

I have done this before and it has worked. I would go find some soil in a flat part of your lawn and just transplant it. I don't like using foreign top soil whenever possible.

 

[Catscratch]

I've taken a auger and made a checkerboard of holes in a low growth area, then topped the holes off with freshly dug soil from highly productive areas. I figure it's my diy version of inoculating with correct microbes (mycorrhizae and bacteria) to that field. Couldn't say if it actually worked as I also implemented several other regenerative farming type of practices at the same time. I think it's worth a shot though.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

That's odd. It appears that the grass growing around the dead trees is similar in height to the grass growing by the living trees. I have some crappy sections of soil where trees struggle, but the grass struggles there too. Your plan to remove a bunch of soil and replace it with better soil should work. The bigger hole you can remove and replace, the better.

Your spruce tree row is looking really good. Any worries about those tall central leaders being rub targets for a neighborhood forkie when you are away? I've had a number of spruce trees rubbed when they are in the 4-8 foot tall range. They usually recover, but they look stupid for a couple years until they send up a new central leader.

 

[SD51555]

I have done this before and it has worked. I would go find some soil in a flat part of your lawn and just transplant it. I don't like using foreign top soil whenever possible.

I've got a pile of what I think was collapsed barn that was all pushed together. They got most of the machinery out of it, and I was left with uncomposted hay, manure, iron, barb wire, glass, and rocks. With a little sorting, it's turned out to be pretty good soil. I'm gonna use that, and I'm gonna mix in some other goodies I've got laying around.

 

[SD51555]

I've taken a auger and made a checkerboard of holes in a low growth area, then topped the holes off with freshly dug soil from highly productive areas. I figure it's my diy version of inoculating with correct microbes (mycorrhizae and bacteria) to that field. Couldn't say if it actually worked as I also implemented several other regenerative farming type of practices at the same time. I think it's worth a shot though.

I've got a pile of 4 year rotted wood chips that's darn near compost. I'm gonna mix in some of that and a little gypsum to try to lighten up that ground and keep it fluffy. I suspect my problem up there is air. The clay layer is just very very tight.

 

[SD51555]

That's odd. It appears that the grass growing around the dead trees is similar in height to the grass growing by the living trees. I have some crappy sections of soil where trees struggle, but the grass struggles there too. Your plan to remove a bunch of soil and replace it with better soil should work. The bigger hole you can remove and replace, the better.

Your spruce tree row is looking really good. Any worries about those tall central leaders being rub targets for a neighborhood forkie when you are away? I've had a number of spruce trees rubbed when they are in the 4-8 foot tall range. They usually recover, but they look stupid for a couple years until they send up a new central leader.

Thanks man. Those are all ditch transplants from the past 2-3 years. I haven't worried about them getting rubbed yet, but you never know. Just when I think I've got it figured, I get educated.

 

[cavey]

I have spots in my tree lines where I’ve had back to back trees die. They die in these spots when I otherwise have 95% or better success elsewhere. I’m considering digging out the soil and dumping a new cart of native soil in that spot.

Normally I wouldn’t screw around this much to get a spruce tree growing, but I need lines and symmetry and I’m running out of time for height symmetry.

Will it work?

I have a buddy that has tried 3 different apple trees in the same spot, all have eventually died even though everything around them that has been planted has thrived. I told him to dig down a bit further - I bet there is a big table top like rock slab just under the area of that lone tree.

 

[Native Hunter]

What you describe is what I’m doing for my garden next year. I will do it with a shovel and wheelbarro. There is a ditch at the edge of the yard full of nice topsoil from the neighboring field.

 

[SD51555]

I think that’s a September project after it cools off for me. I’ve got a use for the dirt I’m taking out to. I can fix some ruts and holes around the yard. I’ve even got some 5-6 year rotted wood chips that are basically compost that I can mix in. May go get a little sand too.


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[Turkey Creek]

I've got a pile of 4 year rotted wood chips that's darn near compost. I'm gonna mix in some of that and a little gypsum to try to lighten up that ground and keep it fluffy. I suspect my problem up there is air. The clay layer is just very very tight.

From our experience growing Christmas trees, Spruce and Fir species do NOT like heavy clay soils. We gave up trying to grow them in soils that are heavier clay. It could be something as simple as the pH in those specific spots as well. pH can be more of an issue with them as well.

 

[SD51555]

I would suspect the pH is pretty high once you get down past 8". I tested some 24-30" soil years ago and found it to be much higher than my topsoil.

There is a definite advantage for most conifers in rock and sand. Out in the black hills, I see all sorts of pine growing out of rock walls.

 

[bigboreblr]

IF you suspect high pH, maybe dig out the soil and mix in some sulhpur. White spruce seems to be more tolerant of heaviet clay soils. NYSDEC nursery grows them in snady soils. Even adding something to lightening up the heavy cly like sand or wood chips can be helpful.

Speaking of bad soil issues. IS there anything bad against palnting a new tree ontop of of and old one? I took the tractor bucket and knocked down a 14 inch diameter almost toast apple tree and planted a pristine on M111 there. When I knocked down the tree the main taproot about 2 feet down came out as well as a bit of the major side roots. So I got a ton of roots dead down there planted right ontop of where it was. I removed about 30 trees like that and planted right over them and waited 1-2 years. This one was like 2 months or less. Don't think the tree failing to thrive is from this, but who knows for sure.

The tree that waited a year or more are doing great. Came form the same sources and treated similarly in amending, watering, fertilizing, etc. Have many trees that put on 3 feet or more of growth. This pristine just leafed out the dormant buds it was shipped with and thats it. Likely dig it up, throw it out, and put Violi's on anty or winter wildlife on M111I have growing in the nursery.