I’ve been doing the typical fall plots rolled down over buckwheat in early June… could someone direct me to an existing thread or offer some guidance, does anyone have a clever process for skipping the summer buckwheat step, while ideally still avoiding spray and tillage? I ask this now because I figure if it’s possible what goes in the dirt this year would be part of the solution for 2024. And the motivation for the question is of course… time, money, and I’m not a huge fan of demolishing the beautiful grains and annual clovers in the late spring.
Skipping buckwheat
- Thread starter neonomad
- Start date
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Your fall plants can provide thatch for throw n mow/roll like buckwheat does. Lots of folks use cereal grains from the fall planting to be the thatch for the next year's planting. Buckwheat seems popular due to being easy to grow, fast to grow, easy to terminate, and low residue.
Where are you located? For us folks up north, it's easier because by the time winter cereals are maturing in the summer it's almost time to plant fall plots. Warmer climates likely have a bigger gap between cereals going to seed and ideal fall plot planting time but @Crimson n' Camo seems to do fine in the south with his program still. Search his posts in the throw n mow sticky thread. There are many varieties of what you're searching for in that thread too.
Things to consider:
- Do you want your winter cereals to mature until seed is viable? Free viable seed is pretty cool but it also could make it harder for new seed to compete. If you dont want those competition issues you can terminate the annual winter cereal (rye/wheat/barley/triticale) before seed is viable via herbicide, crimping, mowing, or rolling. The other thing is that if seed is mowed as soon as it becomes viable, it may reseed earlier than ideal for peak deer palatability during hunting season. They like tender young cereals so they are reseeded in July and the deer dont keep them mowed down, they can get pretty stalky and undesirable to deer.
- If using perennials they can also outcompete your new crop if not terminated. See posts by @Foggy47 and @Wild Thing about perennial clover outcompeting new fall plantings. If you are happy to have perennial clover as your primary species this may not be an issue at all
I saw a sturgis video recently where he said he likes to terminate the cereals in the spring before they get too much biomass. Lots of folks on this site beg to differ about that being a problem if you do let them mature. To help keep your biology breaking down thatch, you'll want a fair bit of legumes mixed with cereals to fix nitrogen and help with the carbon:nitrogen ratio.
Where are you located? For us folks up north, it's easier because by the time winter cereals are maturing in the summer it's almost time to plant fall plots. Warmer climates likely have a bigger gap between cereals going to seed and ideal fall plot planting time but @Crimson n' Camo seems to do fine in the south with his program still. Search his posts in the throw n mow sticky thread. There are many varieties of what you're searching for in that thread too.
Things to consider:
- Do you want your winter cereals to mature until seed is viable? Free viable seed is pretty cool but it also could make it harder for new seed to compete. If you dont want those competition issues you can terminate the annual winter cereal (rye/wheat/barley/triticale) before seed is viable via herbicide, crimping, mowing, or rolling. The other thing is that if seed is mowed as soon as it becomes viable, it may reseed earlier than ideal for peak deer palatability during hunting season. They like tender young cereals so they are reseeded in July and the deer dont keep them mowed down, they can get pretty stalky and undesirable to deer.
- If using perennials they can also outcompete your new crop if not terminated. See posts by @Foggy47 and @Wild Thing about perennial clover outcompeting new fall plantings. If you are happy to have perennial clover as your primary species this may not be an issue at all
I saw a sturgis video recently where he said he likes to terminate the cereals in the spring before they get too much biomass. Lots of folks on this site beg to differ about that being a problem if you do let them mature. To help keep your biology breaking down thatch, you'll want a fair bit of legumes mixed with cereals to fix nitrogen and help with the carbon:nitrogen ratio.
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Thanks @Wind Gypsy @PatinPA Im in NE Ohio… maybe next year I’ll terminate half the grains early (edit: terminate on time in dough stage) and let half the grains stand through fall planting time, although I have a hard time imagining this working without some Gly here and there. Takes time to learn new processes one year at a time, marathon not a sprint for sure…
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
If mowing is an option that can be done prior to seed becoming viable it's an easy way to terminate rye without herbicide.
Yes I could mow it or roll it down and lightly disk at 90 degrees, just interested to see what the weeds do between that and fall planting time… probably a month and a half or so.
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
From my perspective.....you gotta be able to roll with the changes that happen each year. No plan is cast in stone.
I had a pretty good fall planting of clover and rye taking me into last fall.....and in Spring I had great rye at first green-up to feed my starving deer followed by some beautiful Alice White clover and Medium Red clover. We had marginal rains in May and June......but the clovers and rye flourished regardless and things were looking "fair to middling" in early July. Looking back.....I should have left things as they were.....as my clover held on despite the drought.
However.....I forged ahead with terminating 1/2 of my clover and planted a mix of brassica shortly after. Meanwhile, I mowed the rye and weeds to control those weeds on the 1/2 I did not terminate.....and that seemed successful to date. However.....I went almost without rain (had a few light showers) through July before finally getting a good soaker on August 2. Have some shady areas where I have fair brassica germinated and those areas will likely succeed. But about 3/4 of the plot areas dedicated for brassica are still very sparse or non-existent. I am waiting a few more days before deciding on another plan.......and this is where you gotta bob and weave a bit.
Sandy soil and lack of rain is a bummer. If you do get some things to germinate....without rain in a week or ten days those crops will become toasted.....and there you sit. I know I stand a better chance with no tillage and some roots in the ground. Still.....gotta have some moisture at some point.
I likely will use my drill to plant more brassica into the "sparce" areas......or perhaps just broadcast and use my cluitapacker to set those seeds. Dunno yet. Meanwhile that clover I had "nuked" back in early July is now coming back into my brasica plots and threatens to overtake the brassica again. Not sure I want to nuke it once again before planting more brassica. Gotta make a good choice here....as my fall hunt largely depends on having good food sources in my plots when temps are in the single digits and clover is long since dormant.
Life is different in Zone 3. Always a scramble to keep some groceries on the table in November.
My wild card is winter rye....as I will plant at least 100 lbs/ acre in late August (along with more clover)......and that rye seems to remain a somewhat preferred food source into early winter.
I had a pretty good fall planting of clover and rye taking me into last fall.....and in Spring I had great rye at first green-up to feed my starving deer followed by some beautiful Alice White clover and Medium Red clover. We had marginal rains in May and June......but the clovers and rye flourished regardless and things were looking "fair to middling" in early July. Looking back.....I should have left things as they were.....as my clover held on despite the drought.
However.....I forged ahead with terminating 1/2 of my clover and planted a mix of brassica shortly after. Meanwhile, I mowed the rye and weeds to control those weeds on the 1/2 I did not terminate.....and that seemed successful to date. However.....I went almost without rain (had a few light showers) through July before finally getting a good soaker on August 2. Have some shady areas where I have fair brassica germinated and those areas will likely succeed. But about 3/4 of the plot areas dedicated for brassica are still very sparse or non-existent. I am waiting a few more days before deciding on another plan.......and this is where you gotta bob and weave a bit.
Sandy soil and lack of rain is a bummer. If you do get some things to germinate....without rain in a week or ten days those crops will become toasted.....and there you sit. I know I stand a better chance with no tillage and some roots in the ground. Still.....gotta have some moisture at some point.
I likely will use my drill to plant more brassica into the "sparce" areas......or perhaps just broadcast and use my cluitapacker to set those seeds. Dunno yet. Meanwhile that clover I had "nuked" back in early July is now coming back into my brasica plots and threatens to overtake the brassica again. Not sure I want to nuke it once again before planting more brassica. Gotta make a good choice here....as my fall hunt largely depends on having good food sources in my plots when temps are in the single digits and clover is long since dormant.
Life is different in Zone 3. Always a scramble to keep some groceries on the table in November.
My wild card is winter rye....as I will plant at least 100 lbs/ acre in late August (along with more clover)......and that rye seems to remain a somewhat preferred food source into early winter.
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There was some buckwheat in the vitalize mix I planted this spring and the deer ate it.But I didn't see how the buckwheat would help the soil.I am guessing it will grow in about any type of soil but how does it improve it?I would think that even if I can't get deer to eat turnips and only a few daikon radish these will do more to improve the soil as the bulbs and radish start to rot away.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Buck is good at mining phosphorus and calcium. The roots of the plaints release an acid that with make the calcium and phosphorus available to the next crop.
