Reclaiming 35 year old orchard

[chickenlittle]

The Cummins photos are after they completed pruning. They aren't trying to be perfect or spend too much time pruning them. They know how the old trees have been fruiting, if it is biannual, how it responds to pruning. To some extent, they prune to make the trees look nice. Also, they know where a tree is weak and needs pruned more to minimize fruit load that might cause a tree to break. Being a pick your own orchard, they want these old trees healthy, looking nice, and productive enough. They have newer plantings there too in high density rows on dwarfing stock that put out much more fruit. Those would get pruned very differently and uniformly down to the row of a variety.

 

[WTNUT]

I am sure Cummins did the major surgery in one year. Apple trees are tough. You can be aggressive chopping them back. They will push new buds and create more structure down where you want it. And while there might be lots of undesirable growth that comes with chopping them back, you can control that by coming through with a summer pruning in in June and July so the growth goes where you want it.

The more I look at your photos, the more sure I am that I would cut every other one down. If they weren't so close together, I think they (and you) would be a lot happier.

What a great problem to have.

We have some real experts in on this one, but I will say I agree those trees are tight considering the size. Cutting every other one would be painful at first, but considering the owner does not have a bucket or lift pruning might be difficult. The good news is it looks level so a good pruning ladder would help. I prune probably 125 each year as a hobby and that is a lot of work! 150 would be plenty to keep you from getting bored. Maybe cut 1/4 down this year in an area by cutting every other one and see how that goes.


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[Maya]

Nice job Parker. If these are just for deer, what you have done is real good, anything more and you would start to be a slave to the tress.

It's hard to tell from the pics but the only thing I would ask is how are the tops? Are they shading out the bottom a lot? You obviously cut out a bunch of dead wood underneath so some top work may be needed so that the trees get better light. I think you have done enough for this year but take that into consideration in the future. See how they respond to what you have done. Make those cuts sparingly so you do not get to many water sprouts. Keeping the shade there this year will cut down on the suckers from the cuts you made this year, but not all. Get in there around early summer and hack them off.

On big overgrown orchards I pick my poison and work on the best trees first. Unless you are an animal you won't get to them all in a year, even taking out 15%!

Also remove the prunings from the orchard. One of the biggest problems w/ an old orchard are grape vines running up on the trees and they will use brush piles to hop on your trees if you are not careful.

Real good job though!

 

[Parker35]

Nice job Parker. If these are just for deer, what you have done is real good, anything more and you would start to be a slave to the tress.

It's hard to tell from the pics but the only thing I would ask is how are the tops? Are they shading out the bottom a lot? You obviously cut out a bunch of dead wood underneath so some top work may be needed so that the trees get better light. I think you have done enough for this year but take that into consideration in the future. See how they respond to what you have done. Make those cuts sparingly so you do not get to many water sprouts. Keeping the shade there this year will cut down on the suckers from the cuts you made this year, but not all. Get in there around early summer and hack them off.

On big overgrown orchards I pick my poison and work on the best trees first. Unless you are an animal you won't get to them all in a year, even taking out 15%!

Also remove the prunings from the orchard. One of the biggest problems w/ an old orchard are grape vines running up on the trees and they will use brush piles to hop on your trees if you are not careful.

Real good job though!

Thanks Maya, we pick a few for apple sause but for the most part this is all for the deer... And to make sure the tree are around for our next generation of hunters in the family.

The tops look healthy for the most part. Currently the bottoms get no sun. After i remove the dead Limbs from the bottom i look up and take anything else that doesn't look healthy. Then i take a little more to open the tree up a bit.

I took a similar approach 4 years ago with our small orchard. The trees have been producing some apples. Not heavy crops by any means but enough for deer. Enough sun gets in for the ground to explode with weeds.

We have some grape vines in there now and they are the worst. They jump from tree to tree and are really tough to get out of the trees. Worst part of this work for sure.

I have been taking the cuttings and piling them up right in the orchard. Mostly because i think the structure make the deer feer more secure during the daylight. Ill definately watch to grape vine in the future though.

If i make it up to the property ill try to remember to take some better pictures.

 

[Parker35]

Everyone, i appreciate all the different perspectives. This is a ton of work and i am not an expert so having others who have been there and done that really helps.

I'll probably end up trying a couple different methods that you have mentioned to see what works for us.

I think the trees were planted 25 feet apart but ill have to double check next time im up there. Ill try to get some better pictures as well.

 

[Maya]

Thanks Maya, we pick a few for apple sause but for the most part this is all for the deer... And to make sure the tree are around for our next generation of hunters in the family.

The tops look healthy for the most part. Currently the bottoms get no sun. After i remove the dead Limbs from the bottom i look up and take anything else that doesn't look healthy. Then i take a little more to open the tree up a bit.

I took a similar approach 4 years ago with our small orchard. The trees have been producing some apples. Not heavy crops by any means but enough for deer. Enough sun gets in for the ground to explode with weeds.

We have some grape vines in there now and they are the worst. They jump from tree to tree and are really tough to get out of the trees. Worst part of this work for sure.

I have been taking the cuttings and piling them up right in the orchard. Mostly because i think the structure make the deer feer more secure during the daylight. Ill definately watch to grape vine in the future though.

If i make it up to the property ill try to remember to take some better pictures.

One more thing. If you do take out some out of the tops to get more light in, make big cuts. What I mean by that is rather than cut out several smaller branches out of the canopy, which will all likely shoot a water sprout or two, cut out branches to open up an area by taking out the main branch lower in the canopy or tree. This is easy to do on older neglected trees like this as several shoots have gone straight up from lower in the tree. Just take one out that will open up an area. You may have to make a few more cuts to get it out of the canopy though! .......Good luck!

 

[Appleman]

20 years ago I thought I could prune every year around 200 wild trees on my property. It wasn't too many years later I realized only a small percentage of them met my goals to sustain wildlife for a period of 3 or more months. Those trees that fruit ripened and fell off the trees very early in the season were removed from my pruning list. Many had apples that only lasted into the October bow season. As a commercial orchardist, it was quite easy to see the time needed to prune semi-dwarf commercial trees and the high yield efficiency that goes along with it was a wiser choice and a more efficient use of my time. I have reduced my wild tree pruning on wild trees down to around 10% of what was originally done. I have added over 200 commercially bought nursery trees at different locations on my 250 acre property. I took a ride up to see the property a few days ago. ALL apples on wild trees were gone and have been since December. Planted trees like honeycrisp and some enterprise are still loaded with apples. The network of deer trails to these trees is testimony that long term sustainability is possible when making the right choices. Top working is another good choice. The procedure is easy to do and works well on chance seedlings with trunks having smaller diameters. Pruning wild trees is a great way to increase fruit production but is a whole lot of work. For longer periods of sustainability and larger yields, growing well known commercial varieties with known characteristics is a better way to go.

 

[buckvelvet]

Great thread guys! Can't wait to see this old orchard make its way back to life @Parker35!

 

[Parker35]

All the different ideas about what we could do with our orchard has me inspired to keep moving. I went up to the farm this weekend with my brother to cut a bit more. When using a chain saw i stop when im tired so a half day is about all i can get in but two people really get things moving.

Maya, we took your advise and cut a few big cuts to let more light in. Its a little tough because you really feel like you are cutting the best part of the tree out but it really opens things up.

I took a few more pictures tomshow the difference. You can really see the size of these trees in the first pict with my brother in it. I think he is 6'2".

 

[Parker35]

I took a few pictures of the small orchard that we cut back 4 years ago. Sun still gets to the floor pretty good in this orchard. In early archery season the weeds were so tall we had to cut shooting lanes through the weeds just to see the deer. It is starting to thicken up and i see some dead wood so we probably need to do some trimming here as well.

Appleman, you make a good point about taking care of the best varities for hunting. We have northern spys in this orchard and they hold well into December so if we were to really care for any of the trees it would probably be them.

 

[Maya]

All the different ideas about what we could do with our orchard has me inspired to keep moving. I went up to the farm this weekend with my brother to cut a bit more. When using a chain saw i stop when im tired so a half day is about all i can get in but two people really get things moving.

Maya, we took your advise and cut a few big cuts to let more light in. Its a little tough because you really feel like you are cutting the best part of the tree out but it really opens things up.

I took a few more pictures tomshow the difference. You can really see the size of these trees in the first pict with my brother in it. I think he is 6'2".

Wow, looks like you cut a lot, be careful! You will get a lot of growth there on those trees. The next ones you do, try a little less. Have fun, but I would do a lot less than that 30% suggestion. You will be fine though.

Also don't leave stubs. It's always a little herd to see what is going on by pics, but it looks like there are some. Always cut out a branch back to its collar. If you want to shorten a branch, cut it back to a week side branch or one going in a direction you want the tree to grow. Don't make heading cuts.

 

[Apple Junkie]

Also don't leave stubs. It's always a little herd to see what is going on by pics, but it looks like there are some. Always cut out a branch back to its collar. If you want to shorten a branch, cut it back to a week side branch or one going in a direction you want the tree to grow. Don't make heading cuts.

To expand a bit on Maya's suggestion, this might help a bit...

 

[Diesel5610]

Also don't leave stubs. It's always a little herd to see what is going on by pics, but it looks like there are some. Always cut out a branch back to its collar. If you want to shorten a branch, cut it back to a week side branch or one going in a direction you want the tree to grow. Don't make heading cuts.

To expand a bit on Maya's suggestion, this might help a bit...View attachment 16611View attachment 16612View attachment 16613View attachment 16614View attachment 16615

Great attachment Junkie, can I ask where it came from? Website or book?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

X-2, A.J. ^^^^^^^ Where did this info come from ?? Thanks for posting too !!

 

[Apple Junkie]

This info came from New York State Forest Owners Association (NYFOA) newsletter. Good organization, link to article... https://www.nyfoa.org/application/files/6614/7992/6875/wfl_2016_12_insert_pruning.pdf

 

[Parker35]

Maya, Apple Junkie, thanks for the advice on the stubs. The artile was very helpful. You are right looking back at the pictures we did leave some. We will go back through and clean those up.

We are kinda learing as we go here. This thread is helping me get up to speed.

So i think i get the concept of thinning cuts and it seems like that is what we should be focusing on. So is there any instance when you would recommend a heading cut on trees like this?

The other question i have about our trees is is we just do thinning cuts and create enough space between the trees would you expect to see lateral growth?

 

[Maya]

Maya, Apple Junkie, thanks for the advice on the stubs. The artile was very helpful. You are right looking back at the pictures we did leave some. We will go back through and clean those up.

We are kinda learing as we go here. This thread is helping me get up to speed.

So i think i get the concept of thinning cuts and it seems like that is what we should be focusing on. So is there any instance when you would recommend a heading cut on trees like this?

The other question i have about our trees is is we just do thinning cuts and create enough space between the trees would you expect to see lateral growth?

No heading cuts, and you will get growth but it will reach right up for the sky! Take it slow, a little here, and a little more next year would be much better. Again, if you want to thin an area, or shorten an area, cut back to a side branch. Sorry if I confused you some. Just thin a little here, and a little there throughout the tree canopy where it is over crowded, just don't make a ton of cuts and thin it too much in one year. Your original pics of what you did originally was great for the first year, then go back and thin in years to follow if needed to open things up more. This will give you less problems in the future.

Nice find Junkie!