Realizing A Dream

[phil@thesidehill]

I think it's funny how we all think alike on this forum. Yeah, you nailed it. I've been trying to figure out how to do this for the past few years. My MIL will not let me plow or use gly. I've been trying to figure out how to get something established in her fields. A controlled burn is out of the question. I thought about dragging my disk across the fields real shallow and just cutting up the sod a bit in early spring or fall and then throwing down some clover. What do you think? Will I have any luck by broadcasting clover into the fields with mimimal seedbed prep?

Some have mentioned some of this already, but i think if you were to mow a strategic corner or end of one of the MIL's fields really tight making several passes in opposing perpendicular directions you could chop up the thatch fairly small and end up with less matts and tire track/wind rows. I would look at clovers, maybe alsike, white dutch and some med red, or even crimson or a mix of all of them. If going the clover route you could mow it tight end of august and broadcast right away (hopefully with a good rain on the horizon). Possibly even broadcast some WR as well. I wouldn't expect too much out of the clovers that fall, but the following spring you could then come in and frost seed more med red. if you keep it mowed that should also help.

i think you could also get away with broadcasting some DER and PTT....not sure how much tuber production you would get out of the turnips because i assume you wont be able to lime or fert as well?

Either way there are most certainly some opportunities to get a food plot out of those field with out any tillage...will they look like perfect plots...probably not...does that matter to the deer....not in the least.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Get your plot put in. Let it grow. Then take her on a walk some day. She may change her mind.

Great advice.

Man we are brothers from another mother. My inlaws have the same fetish with their 5 acre field. Last year I finally got them to let me put some sweet corn and sunflowers in about a 1/4 acre. However I did get away with turning a half acre into clover in the back corner that they never noticed. The field is mostly grass with an assortment of weeds. In the spring I broadcast 10 pounds of clover in the corner. I kept the area mowed all summer. Around August I could see a substantial amount of clover in that corner. Next I sprayed to kill the grass and also broadcast WR. As the grass turned brown the WR began to grow and the clover took off. You would have never known I sprayed anything. By mid September it looked great for what it was. I am anxious to see what it looks like this spring. I will let the WR grow until it seeds out then mow it, it will once again look like the rest of the field and I will get a free planting of WR.

That's funny chummer! I'm glad you've been able to make it work. How long do you need to wait after you spray before broadcasting WR? May just give it a try.

Find her week spot….The old snow ball down the hill theory.

Man, you're good! I like it. Though it took me a second to figure out if by "old snow ball down the hill" you were referring to your MIL. :p

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Some have mentioned some of this already, but i think if you were to mow a strategic corner or end of one of the MIL's fields really tight making several passes in opposing perpendicular directions you could chop up the thatch fairly small and end up with less matts and tire track/wind rows. I would look at clovers, maybe alsike, white dutch and some med red, or even crimson or a mix of all of them. If going the clover route you could mow it tight end of august and broadcast right away (hopefully with a good rain on the horizon). Possibly even broadcast some WR as well. I wouldn't expect too much out of the clovers that fall, but the following spring you could then come in and frost seed more med red. if you keep it mowed that should also help.

i think you could also get away with broadcasting some DER and PTT....not sure how much tuber production you would get out of the turnips because i assume you wont be able to lime or fert as well?

Either way there are most certainly some opportunities to get a food plot out of those field with out any tillage...will they look like perfect plots...probably not...does that matter to the deer....not in the least.

Great idea Phil. Ya know…lime and fert. wouldn't be a problem I don't think. I could probably get away with that. And I do mow the fields with a flail mower which just pulverizes everything and leaves nothing bigger than a few inches. If I set the knives real low I could chop the field to pieces to the point that I might be able to actually knife up the sod very lightly. Just enough to give the WR a little better chance.

You've all got me thinking about new possibilities and new pathways…that's what I love about this forum.

 

[chummer]

I think I sprayed one day and broadcast the WR the next. If I remember correctly I then walked it with my backpack blower to get all the seed down to ground level.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Great idea Phil. Ya know…lime and fert. wouldn't be a problem I don't think. I could probably get away with that. And I do mow the fields with a flail mower which just pulverizes everything and leaves nothing bigger than a few inches. If I set the knives real low I could chop the field to pieces to the point that I might be able to actually knife up the sod very lightly. Just enough to give the WR a little better chance.

You've all got me thinking about new possibilities and new pathways…that's what I love about this forum.

That will work....you could even mow tight, then broadcast the wr and then hit it with the mower again to cover the seeds....but honestly I've seen WR germinate on tractor tires before.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Great idea Phil. Ya know…lime and fert. wouldn't be a problem I don't think. I could probably get away with that. And I do mow the fields with a flail mower which just pulverizes everything and leaves nothing bigger than a few inches. If I set the knives real low I could chop the field to pieces to the point that I might be able to actually knife up the sod very lightly. Just enough to give the WR a little better chance.

You've all got me thinking about new possibilities and new pathways…that's what I love about this forum.

I'm pretty sure it was LC that said if you could do nothing else to a field...lime it. I'd have to do some searching to find that thread.....maybe someone else has a better memory than I do?

With the addition of lime and fert...I think it opens up a lot more options for you. I'm pretty sure if you were to get a pretty good stand of clover established you could mow it tight in the middle of summer ( not sure if clover will go completely dormant in your neck of the woods) when clover is dormant you could probably broadcast brassicas into the dormant clover and get a good crop of them. If your deer eat them, then great! You will most likely have a stand of clover in that plot that will be there come the following spring too. If the deer don't eat the brassicas they will still mostly die over winter and you will still have a clover stand in the plot come spring. I really think you have more plotting options than previously believed!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

This plot was planted using mow/spray/broadcast (with lime and fert as well) obviously you don't have the permission to spray but I really think you could forego that step with timely mowing. I mowed with a weed whacker only and left all the trash on the plot as is and this is what the plot looked like a few weeks back during a warm spell. I have planted strips of modified LC mixes of brassicas and cereal grain/clover.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

You're right Phil. It was LC that said " lime it " if nothing else. I remember it - and quoted it to guys at my camp !!

 

[dtabor]

Natty, I think you hit it perfect...you already mow the thing and chop up the weeds etc. There was a long post on "another site" that talked about a total no till operation where the seeds were spread and then run over with a brush hog to just the chaff to hold moisture and that guy got great results. You said you cant spray but if you were to broadcast your seed, then hit it with your mower you'd pretty much produce the same result. Then you can control weeds by regular mowings. I think you have the possibility of a great clover plot with a little work!

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I think I sprayed one day and broadcast the WR the next. If I remember correctly I then walked it with my backpack blower to get all the seed down to ground level.

Thanks chummer. Sounds great.

That will work....you could even mow tight, then broadcast the wr and then hit it with the mower again to cover the seeds....but honestly I've seen WR germinate on tractor tires before.

Thanks for all the great advice and the pics. Looking forward to this summer to see what I can make happen.

Natty, I think you hit it perfect...you already mow the thing and chop up the weeds etc. There was a long post on "another site" that talked about a total no till operation where the seeds were spread and then run over with a brush hog to just the chaff to hold moisture and that guy got great results. You said you cant spray but if you were to broadcast your seed, then hit it with your mower you'd pretty much produce the same result. Then you can control weeds by regular mowings. I think you have the possibility of a great clover plot with a little work!

I think I recall those threads. Thanks for the help and encouragement!

 

[buckdeer1]

Looks great,A screen behind your house to split that field would give you another food plot and place to hunt close to the back door.I don't pick up my tops and it makes great bedding

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Looks great,A screen behind your house to split that field would give you another food plot and place to hunt close to the back door.I don't pick up my tops and it makes great bedding

You're hitting on something I have been thinking about, but haven't moved on yet. I was thinking about trying it this year. The field is about 3 acres and would make a great destination plot. Still not sure? I'm afraid I would blow out the deer each night as I left to head out to my stands or upon my return after an evening sit. I guess that's the purpose of the screen, correct?

Thanks!

 

[buckdeer1]

You could maybe use forage sorgum and sudan grass and brush in a popup,then just sneak out the back to go home.You would have to pay special attention to the wind.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

You could maybe use forage sorgum and sudan grass and brush in a popup,then just sneak out the back to go home.You would have to pay special attention to the wind.

Something to think about. Here in the Northeast clover tends to go dormant around the end of Sept. early October. If I did a clover/chicory plot as a summer forage plot by the time hunting season rolled around they would have stopped using it anyway. While I wouldn't it, might be a way to use the field and not risk educating the deer.

 

[chummer]

Something to think about. Here in the Northeast clover tends to go dormant around the end of Sept. early October. If I did a clover/chicory plot as a summer forage plot by the time hunting season rolled around they would have stopped using it anyway. While I wouldn't it, might be a way to use the field and not risk educating the deer.

My clover doesn't get touched much before October. They hammer it in October till it is gone, usually begining of November. It does go dormant as you said but it is usually 6-8" tall and lush by then.

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

Something to think about. Here in the Northeast clover tends to go dormant around the end of Sept. early October. If I did a clover/chicory plot as a summer forage plot by the time hunting season rolled around they would have stopped using it anyway. While I wouldn't it, might be a way to use the field and not risk educating the deer.

Natty my clover is still growing good in October it is still 10" tall. The deer don't start hitting the chicory until late September October and when they do they hammer it. The best thing I did was plant alfalfa it draws the deer in. I planted alfa rack plus I think it was. This year I planted some Ezra alfalfa from the farmers co-op deer eat it just as good.

You are only about 47 mi. from me as the crow flies.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

My clover doesn't get touched much before October. They hammer it in October till it is gone, usually begining of November. It does go dormant as you said but it is usually 6-8" tall and lush by then.

Thanks chummer. This is great to know. I've never really understood if I would be able to grow clover as a hunting plot in October. I get red clover to volunteer fairly well out in the back field by spreading manure and mowing. But man, by end of Sept. it just begins to look kind of dead and wilty. The soil is not the greatest…cold, wet, heavy clay. This gives me something to think about! Love it.

Natty my clover is still growing good in October it is still 10" tall. The deer don't start hitting the chicory until late September October and when they do they hammer it. The best thing I did was plant alfalfa it draws the deer in. I planted alfa rack plus I think it was. This year I planted some Ezra alfalfa from the farmers co-op deer eat it just as good.

You are only about 47 mi. from me as the crow flies.

Interesting. As I think about food plots…designing them, cutting them, planting them, etc., I sometimes get overwhelmed with the info out there and just how much I don't know. I've spent the past 2 or 3 years expanding my library of plotting and management books and spending time on forums like these. I have a friend who plants a little chicory plot and he says the same thing….the deer just hammer it. He tags out each bow season. I think my solid might be too heavy for alfalfa? Am I correct that they do much better on lighter, well drained soils?

 

[chummer]

I use WI clover and chicory. This pic is from the first week of December. I only had about 5 deer using this plot this year so there was plenty of food left into December.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

My clover plantings (Jumbo Ladino, Med Red, and Crimson) are typically the draw in spring and through the summer especially the crimson. September sees alot of usage on all three, but it starts to fall off into October. October is when the brassica greens really start to get hammered. I plant my plot in strips, this year is the first year where i have added cereal grains (WR and Oats) to my clover plantings. it seemed to me that in october the cereals were getting the attention in those strips and not so much the clover....its kinda hard to tell for sure with out the exclusion cage on it. But in the past when i had stand alone clover it seemed as the deer started to phase off of the clover in October and the brassica greens really started to take the majority of the pressure. I'm sure in some ways its similar to how deer in different places use brassicas at different times or not at all.

also forgot to add that i planted WI's chicory plus a few years ago and the chicory got hammered in september...it was a very small plot and it seemed that the deer wiped it out before october so i'm not sure how it would have done further into the fall.

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

Whitetail Institute Alfa Rack Plus. has Imperial clover alfalfa and chicory. Planted with Jumbo Landino clover and ezra alfalfa from the farmers co-op. and some winter rye mixed in.