Pie sale at Stark Bros.

[Charles Clear]

No affiliation with Stark, this is my first time ordering from them. They are running a Pie sale on certain types of trees. 3.14 flat rate shipping. I picked up a couple of chestnut crabapple trees for 43$ I thought it was a good deal and would pass it along. I probable should of bought the enterprise apples for that price too though.

 

[Prof.Kent]

A "pie" sale. What a gimmick! :-) Anything to cause interest, I guess.

 

[Rubee]

I saw that add from Starks also and was considering ordering chestnut crabs too. I live chatted with them and learned they are grafted on M7 root stock. I don't have any experience with M7. What are your opinions on this tree please

 

[Prof.Kent]

Here is some informatino I have gleaned from the internet:
M7 Rootstock: Usually free standing, although sometimes anchorage can be a problem. Half of standard-sized tree. Moderately resistant to crown rot and to fire blight. Suckering can be a problem. Trees on M7 are quite cold hardy. The M7 root systems tends to be vertically oriented; if the roots hit an impenetrable clay pan at 12 to 18 inches, root growth usually stops and the tree "runts out". Not as precocious as M26, less winter-hardy than M26, better for wet soils. Can be treated as a small MM106 in most respects.
Mature height: 2.2m - 3m
Age starts fruiting: 3-4 years
Spacing: 3m or more between trees
Staking: Temporary stake for first 4-5 years, may require permanent stake in lighter soils
Good features: Resistant to fireblight, Resistant to mildew
Problems: Susceptible to wooly aphid, Not especially cold-hardy
Requirements: Ground around the tree should be kept weed-free (e.g. mulched).

 

[Rubee]

Thank you Prof for that info. I think I'll pass on the m7 crabs.

 

[Prof.Kent]

Thank you Prof for that info. I think I'll pass on the m7 crabs.

If you want the crab apple trees larger you can just plant the graft union below grade.

 

[Rubee]

Would planting the graft below grade result in different fruit characteristics and year to first fruit? Would mature Chestnut tree be as variable as if planted from seed?

 

[buckvelvet]

Just get a Chestnut crab on B118 and call it square.

 

[Prof.Kent]

Would planting the graft below grade result in different fruit characteristics and year to first fruit? Would mature Chestnut tree be as variable as if planted from seed?

Fruit characteristics are determined by the genetics of the wood the fruit is produced on. Year to first fruit might change. I suppose it depends on how fast the new roots grow. Chestnuts trees grown from seed would produce a tree (seedling) that produces nuts different from the mother tree.

 

[Rubee]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[yoderjac]

If you want the crab apple trees larger you can just plant the graft union below grade.

I often wondered if one could get the best of both worlds by planting a tree on Bud9 or other fast fruiting clonal rootstock with the graft just an inch or so above the ground. Then, after the tree was fruiting well, mound a foot or so of soil tapering out from the tree so the graft was well covered. Over time, the tree would produce roots above the graft. The question is, would this tree revert to a vegetative state and stop production until I was larger, or if would continue good production as it grew?

I haven't tried this, but I've always wondered about it.

The reason I'm not sure is because of an experience I had with Jujube. I planted some bare root Tigertooth grown on their own roots. After the trees were a few years old, I propagated them from root cuttings. I grew the root cuttings in root pruning containers on my deck. In the very first growing season they produced fruit even though the parent trees took another 4 years to produce. I ask a Jujube expert about it from one of the universities. His explanation was that the root constraint caused by the root pruning containers caused the young trees to change from a vegetative state to a fruiting state. He suggested that once they were planted in the field and the roots were free to range, they would revert to a vegetative state for several years before fruiting. He was right. They have been in the field for several years now and have not fruited.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Prof.Kent]

I often wondered if one could get the best of both worlds by planting a tree on Bud9 or other fast fruiting clonal rootstock with the graft just an inch or so above the ground. Then, after the tree was fruiting well, mound a foot or so of soil tapering out from the tree so the graft was well covered. Over time, the tree would produce roots above the graft. The question is, would this tree revert to a vegetative state and stop production until I was larger, or if would continue good production as it grew?

I haven't tried this, but I've always wondered about it.

The reason I'm not sure is because of an experience I had with Jujube. I planted some bare root Tigertooth grown on their own roots. After the trees were a few years old, I propagated them from root cuttings. I grew the root cuttings in root pruning containers on my deck. In the very first growing season they produced fruit even though the parent trees took another 4 years to produce. I ask a Jujube expert about it from one of the universities. His explanation was that the root constraint caused by the root pruning containers caused the young trees to change from a vegetative state to a fruiting state. He suggested that once they were planted in the field and the roots were free to range, they would revert to a vegetative state for several years before fruiting. He was right. They have been in the field for several years now and have not fruited.

Thanks,

Jack

Interesting. I would think that once some lateral branches (on an apple tree) started producting fruit buds they would continue to product fruit buds from those spurs. Even if the rest of the tree went vegetative again. You can also bend new vegetative limbs down to horizontal and cause fruit buds to start (I have done this). I would make sure the B9 tree was fully mature (fruit buds all the way to the top of the tree) before burying the graft line.

 

[yoderjac]

Interesting. I would think that once some lateral branches (on an apple tree) started producting fruit buds they would continue to product fruit buds from those spurs. Even if the rest of the tree went vegetative again. You can also bend new vegetative limbs down to horizontal and cause fruit buds to start (I have done this). I would make sure the B9 tree was fully mature (fruit buds all the way to the top of the tree) before burying the graft line.

Yes you could be right. My experience with apples is pretty limited so far. Just wonder if the tree would preferentially direct energy toward vegetative growth over fruiting. It would be an interest test.

Wildlife managers want fruit quickly but also want low maintenance long-lived full size trees for wildlife. Perhaps this could be a route.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Prof.Kent]

Yes you could be right. My experience with apples is pretty limited so far. Just wonder if the tree would preferentially direct energy toward vegetative growth over fruiting. It would be an interest test.

Wildlife managers want fruit quickly but also want low maintenance long-lived full size trees for wildlife. Perhaps this could be a route.

Thanks,

Jack

I like the idea but I have never tried it. For "deer trees" I like Golden Russet and Rome. Both long-hanging with spreading, long, tip-bearing branches. They do not quickly become in-grown. Good trees if you are going to let them fend-for-themselves.