Norway Spruce Screen Decisions

[BuckSutherland]

This should give you a better idea of the size trees from NRCS. These are two gallon pots. White cedar on the right and a meyers spruce on the left. My 2 gallon BHS last year were maybe a bit bigger on average then the meyers shown here.



Bows, I after 8 years of doing this and not figuring it out until 2019, I have come to the conclusion that BHS are quite possibly the "best" spruce to plant. The needles are harder then hell so the deer dont browse them. They are extremely stiff and hurt their mouths. Also can handle drought better then anything, are disease resistant, hold the branches all the way to the ground, really fill out, and I dont think bucks are fond of rubbing on them. My next woods will have most of the BHS planted cage free. Awesome looking tree after 10-15+ years.

 

[Jimmy G]

Hey Buck, do most NRCS locations have tree sales? Mine is in Cambridge, Minnesota...just wondering

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[BuckSutherland]

I get most of my trees from Meeker county SWCD and some from Blue Earth last year. Plenty of counties have them. Most of the potted trees from my SWCD come from Schumachers in SW MN. They are really nice trees. Always been impressed with the containers for the price. This is what they have for Isanti county. I know Anoka county has one too. Isanti website:

Welcome to Isanti SWCD Tree Sale

. Read more

www.isantiswcd.org

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Planting conifer threads are my favorite. I have MANY MANY failures before I finally figured it out. Only plant the number of trees that you can give the FULL package cause anything else is a complete waste of time:

1. Biggest specimen you can afford ( I like 1-2 gallon pots)
2. 4x4 weed mat to smoother weeds and grass
3. (1) 2 yard bag of mulch per tree
4. Protection if you have a vulnerable species
5. Fertilize/ and add water if needed

I got these 2 gallon norways last year from Blue Earth County SWCD for $13 each they are $15 for 2022:

View attachment 38672




I think you should think about a row of black hills spruce and baby the shit out of them. They are gonna hold their branches all the way to the ground, my deer dont mess with them cage free at all. They can handle really shitty conditions. Did I mention the deer leave them alone. Only drawback is the grow a little slower, but a weed mat with mulch and a little fertilizer will really help. Don't skip the weed mat and mulch whatever you do. Its worth a lot of early growth. I'm getting the majority of my potted trees to gain height in year one. 12+" on pines, 4-16" on cedars, 6-12" on spruce. You need to kill ALL competition though. Did I mention the weed mat and mulch??? Yes, its that important. You want nothing but the tree growing under the 4x4 mat.



Local NRCS probably have 2 gallon BHS again this year for $15 each. They are wonderful specimens. All the potted trees at NRCS are pretty damn good. 1 gallon BHS is $10. Weed mat is $1. Bag of mulch $3. I'm in Cass County. Deer leave white spruce alone too. Young Norway spruce need protection. They eat them like candy along with white pine, white cedar, scotch pine, red pine, and various firs.

View attachment 38673


View attachment 38674

Thanks for all the input @BuckSutherland

My neighbor at home runs a landscaping business and I got on his calendar to discuss cost for him to do install. If nothing else maybe I could get some help with wholesale tree pricing from him. Those NRCS potted tree prices seem pretty good, I might look at that too.

Any idea how the BHS do in wet soils? This field I’m screening is prone to being pretty wet in the spring.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bows, I after 8 years of doing this and not figuring it out until 2019, I have come to the conclusion that BHS are quite possibly the "best" spruce to plant. The needles are harder then hell so the deer dont browse them. They are extremely stiff and hurt their mouths. Also can handle drought better then anything, are disease resistant, hold the branches all the way to the ground, really fill out, and I dont think bucks are fond of rubbing on them. My next woods will have most of the BHS planted cage free. Awesome looking tree after 10-15+ years.

Thanks for that info, Buck. I think I'm gonna order some BHS for the spring. If they fill out like you said, and the needles are that hard & stiff - They'll make good screen and cover / windbreak trees. Won't hurt to try 'em. Beside that, our flocks of tweety birds may build nests in them. Those birds eat the bad bugs that munch on our apple and crab apple trees. Win-win.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I'm doing a similar project next spring near a property line..using a SG blend to get a screen started then hoping to use white pine, norway spruce and hybrid poplars to get some height and width fairly fast.
My neighbor is building a house fairly close to the property line and I am using it to make sure he can't really see down into my food plot. Not trying to be a jerk neighbor, but this will make for security and a windbreak/bedding area for my plot. I am going to use the largest trees my wife will okay me to afford for all of them and plan to cage them all (the deer are vicious on anything uncaged).

 

[BuckSutherland]

Thanks for all the input @BuckSutherland

My neighbor at home runs a landscaping business and I got on his calendar to discuss cost for him to do install. If nothing else maybe I could get some help with wholesale tree pricing from him. Those NRCS potted tree prices seem pretty good, I might look at that too.

Any idea how the BHS do in wet soils? This field I’m screening is prone to being pretty wet in the spring.

Black spruce tolerate wet better then any of the other spruce I have planted. I'm not fond of them, and am getting poor growth from them. If its real wet you may have to consider balsam fir or white cedar. That's what I see the most of in naturally occurring low areas where my land is. Tamaracks will lose their needles, but thrive in moist areas. Cedars would need cages for sure. If you get slight elevation changes I would think you can get away with spruce as long as its not underwater.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I'm doing a similar project next spring near a property line..using a SG blend to get a screen started then hoping to use white pine, norway spruce and hybrid poplars to get some height and width fairly fast.
My neighbor is building a house fairly close to the property line and I am using it to make sure he can't really see down into my food plot. Not trying to be a jerk neighbor, but this will make for security and a windbreak/bedding area for my plot. I am going to use the largest trees my wife will okay me to afford for all of them and plan to cage them all (the deer are vicious on anything uncaged).View attachment 38705

Make sure when you do the cages you do a weed mat and a bag of mulch. It has made that much difference in my trees. This is what I use for a weed mat. Cost about $1 for each mat if your cutting 4x4. I'm up to about 500 trees with a weed mat and some type of mulch.

https://www.amazon.com/DeWitt-SBLT4300-Sunbelt-Barrier-300-Feet/dp/B004SI9RY0/ref=sr_1_5?crid=20AC7NTAJ355E&keywords=dewitt%2Blandscape%2Bfabric&qid=1637637933&qsid=141-6744514-4839024&sprefix=dewitt%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-5&sres=B004SI9RY0%2CB002HJDL4E%2CB000W6900S%2CB084BPVL9L%2CB07HFFB46X%2CB004SIAS1Q%2CB000BX1HV2%2CB07Z6M5NRB%2CB07J5NYK55%2CB07HBC183B%2CB0016AJC2U%2CB084SXFCRD%2CB004SI9YV6%2CB000WEOPDW%2CB000FNK8GI%2CB000FNQ5R4%2CB005T626CA%2CB084SX2X9S%2CB0736KDQMD%2CB0016AJC1Q&th=1

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Make sure when you do the cages you do a weed mat and a bag of mulch. It has made that much difference in my trees. This is what I use for a weed mat. Cost about $1 for each mat if your cutting 4x4. I'm up to about 500 trees with a weed mat and some type of mulch.

https://www.amazon.com/DeWitt-SBLT4300-Sunbelt-Barrier-300-Feet/dp/B004SI9RY0/ref=sr_1_5?crid=20AC7NTAJ355E&keywords=dewitt%2Blandscape%2Bfabric&qid=1637637933&qsid=141-6744514-4839024&sprefix=dewitt%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-5&sres=B004SI9RY0%2CB002HJDL4E%2CB000W6900S%2CB084BPVL9L%2CB07HFFB46X%2CB004SIAS1Q%2CB000BX1HV2%2CB07Z6M5NRB%2CB07J5NYK55%2CB07HBC183B%2CB0016AJC2U%2CB084SXFCRD%2CB004SI9YV6%2CB000WEOPDW%2CB000FNK8GI%2CB000FNQ5R4%2CB005T626CA%2CB084SX2X9S%2CB0736KDQMD%2CB0016AJC1Q&th=1

any suggestion on type of mulch..for my fruit trees I usually do limestone screening to protect from moles/voles/mice with a window screen wrapped around the trunk but I don't think that will work for conifers...

 

[homegrownbucks]

Good info, I pot up or plant some trees in a protected spot to always have access to some bigger trees every year. It’s nice for filling in the gaps and before you know it, there are some good sized trees at your disposal

 

[BuckSutherland]

any suggestion on type of mulch..for my fruit trees I usually do limestone screening to protect from moles/voles/mice with a window screen wrapped around the trunk but I don't think that will work for conifers...

I've been known to do a bunch of "recylcling" of mulch in my woods. I just take a tote and fill it up with downed rotten trees and bark, etc and throw that on the mat. Thicker the better. I've cut plenty openings that need to be filled in with conifers so I use a lot of the stuff I cut down that is starting to rot. Other times I just buy the cheapest mulch the local fleet store has on hand (I like brown or red). I have really not had any critter issues at all with my cages except for 2 white pines getting bit off last year, but they were young and immature. I will never plant another tree that I buy without a mat and something to hold it down.

 

[Brian662]

Planting conifer threads are my favorite. I have MANY MANY failures before I finally figured it out. Only plant the number of trees that you can give the FULL package cause anything else is a complete waste of time:

1. Biggest specimen you can afford ( I like 1-2 gallon pots)
2. 4x4 weed mat to smoother weeds and grass
3. (1) 2 yard bag of mulch per tree
4. Protection if you have a vulnerable species
5. Fertilize/ and add water if needed

I got these 2 gallon norways last year from Blue Earth County SWCD for $13 each they are $15 for 2022:

View attachment 38672




I think you should think about a row of black hills spruce and baby the shit out of them. They are gonna hold their branches all the way to the ground, my deer dont mess with them cage free at all. They can handle really shitty conditions. Did I mention the deer leave them alone. Only drawback is the grow a little slower, but a weed mat with mulch and a little fertilizer will really help. Don't skip the weed mat and mulch whatever you do. Its worth a lot of early growth. I'm getting the majority of my potted trees to gain height in year one. 12+" on pines, 4-16" on cedars, 6-12" on spruce. You need to kill ALL competition though. Did I mention the weed mat and mulch??? Yes, its that important. You want nothing but the tree growing under the 4x4 mat.



Local NRCS probably have 2 gallon BHS again this year for $15 each. They are wonderful specimens. All the potted trees at NRCS are pretty damn good. 1 gallon BHS is $10. Weed mat is $1. Bag of mulch $3. I'm in Cass County. Deer leave white spruce alone too. Young Norway spruce need protection. They eat them like candy along with white pine, white cedar, scotch pine, red pine, and various firs.

View attachment 38673


View attachment 38674

Where have you been buying your caging from? I've used Menards in the past but the availability last year was minimal and the cost has gone up substantially this year. I'm trying to get my caging lined up early to beat the rush.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Saw this note while reading about Austree hybrid willows with evergreens:

I always suggest planting evergreen trees on the inside of the Austrees so you do have better windbreak protection in the winter and long term. We have shown a 20% faster growth on evergreens planted inside of the Austrees in a windbreak. It appears that the Austrees with there leaves on in the early spring help, by keeping the strong spring winds off of the new growth, protecting the evergreens from wind damage.
We also do like to plant an Austree 6 ft from the last evergreen in our windbreak rows and some in the middle of our newly planted windbreak. The buck deer in the fall (Sep- Dec.) will first come into your windbreak and “attack” with their horns these 8ft tall flexible trees and destroy them instead of your valuable evergreens. The following spring and every spring for 5 years, we cut the Austrees off 1 ft from the ground and they will re-grow and be ready in the fall for the next round of buck deer rubs, do this every year. After the evergreens are 10 ft+ tall you can cut off the Austrees used for deer protection, in the fall at ground level, apply roundup to the stump and remove the above ground part from your windbreak. No reason to remove the roots as they will rot away in just a couple of years.

Austrees along with Norway Spruce to protect them from Deer Damage.
Another use for austrees putting them 5ft from each tree in a row of evergreens. The deer will eat and rub on the austrees before going to the evergreens. You still need to keep deer number as low as possible the first 7 years - we use www.stopthedeerdamage.com Every year cut the austrees off 1 ft above the ground on March 15th and let them resprout during the summer, the austrees will usually be about 8-10 ft tall by fall ready for another fall and winter deer destruction season. Usually after about 5-7 years when the evergreen trees are about 12 ft tall you can cut off the austrees at ground level in the fall (Oct 15th - Dec. 15th) and put roundup on the stump and kill the austrees, as your evergreens continue to grow.

Austree Hybrid Willow — Windbreak Trees

www.windbreaktrees.com

Edit: holy cats that "stopthedeerdamage" website is off the walls.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Where have you been buying your caging from? I've used Menards in the past but the availability last year was minimal and the cost has gone up substantially this year. I'm trying to get my caging lined up early to beat the rush.

I buy 2"x4"x 100ft rolls of 14 gauge welded wire (4 feet tall) mostly from Tractor Supply. Last spring I got 7 rolls for $54.99/roll. Exact same roll right now is $99.99. I make exactly 10 cages out of a 100' roll. Tractor supply does price matching so if you see it anywhere else cheaper (Blains fleet farm) I usually bring it in and show them and get the discount. Home depot has them listed right now for $89/ roll so I might be making a drive to tractor supply in Rockford tomorrow morning. Anything under $100 now is likely to be a "bargin".

 

[bwoods11]

Black Hills Spruce was my go to on a farm we converted from pasture and sandy soil tillable to CRP/trees.

We planted thousands of trees, with good survival . I like plugs over bare root. I’ve filled in dead spots with pine, spruce, & tamarack with good success. Really seeing the wildlife out there, but it took 6-7 yrs before they started to stick around most of the time.

 

[bwoods11]

We also have a lot of cedar planted on this farm .

 

[Brian662]

I buy 2"x4"x 100ft rolls of 14 gauge welded wire (4 feet tall) mostly from Tractor Supply. Last spring I got 7 rolls for $54.99/roll. Exact same roll right now is $99.99. I make exactly 10 cages out of a 100' roll. Tractor supply does price matching so if you see it anywhere else cheaper (Blains fleet farm) I usually bring it in and show them and get the discount. Home depot has them listed right now for $89/ roll so I might be making a drive to tractor supply in Rockford tomorrow morning. Anything under $100 now is likely to be a "bargin".

I'm looking on tractor supply website right now and the 4' tall stuff in 100' lengths is listed at $79.99 but then I figured out that it had my store listed in Illinois. When I changed it to MN it changed to $99.99

That's crazy...

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I'm looking on tractor supply website right now and the 4' tall stuff in 100' lengths is listed at $79.99 but then I figured out that it had my store listed in Illinois. When I changed it to MN it changed to $99.99

That's crazy...

anyone know if theres a benefit to using "rabbit fence" (smaller at the bottom so the buggers can't get inside the screen) when planting conifers/screens?
it looks like its about the same price as the welded wire 2x4" fencing...

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I buy 2"x4"x 100ft rolls of 14 gauge welded wire (4 feet tall) mostly from Tractor Supply. Last spring I got 7 rolls for $54.99/roll. Exact same roll right now is $99.99. I make exactly 10 cages out of a 100' roll. Tractor supply does price matching so if you see it anywhere else cheaper (Blains fleet farm) I usually bring it in and show them and get the discount. Home depot has them listed right now for $89/ roll so I might be making a drive to tractor supply in Rockford tomorrow morning. Anything under $100 now is likely to be a "bargin".

This part is depressing.. not sure I’ll be able to cage 100-200+ this year. Thinking I’ll stick a row of hybrid willow cuttings in the ground parallel to the spruce. Im wondering if this will help deter spruce browsing if say every other spruce got a cage. My gut tells me it’s not worth the risk of spending time/money on spruce if I’m going to take that risk of not caging.

What about taping the central leader? I’ve had very little rubbing activity on my land.

 

[BuckSutherland]

anyone know if theres a benefit to using "rabbit fence" (smaller at the bottom so the buggers can't get inside the screen) when planting conifers/screens?
it looks like its about the same price as the welded wire 2x4" fencing...

I have only ever used 4' tall 2"x 4" welded wire. Never really had an issue. The smaller you go the more time you will spend cutting the roll apart. I unroll the entire roll, "measure" with a 10 foot 2x4, and just make a snip or two on the side I'm measuring, and then come back and cut the whole roll up at once. I just use a hand held tin snips to cut it all apart. Then I form the individual 10 foot pieces into cages. I can get 10 cages made in about 20-25 mins if I'm really feeling good. This year most of my cages will get one T post and 3 zip ties to hold it down. Seems to be all the deterrent my woods requires. Your mileage may vary. I buy old T post for $1 from retired farmers.