Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Ahhhhhhhh…..I feel so much better now.
New way of fixing B118
- Thread starter Native Hunter
- Start date
Ahhhhhhhh…..I feel so much better now.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
LOL !!! That's a quick fix. What variety is it, Native?
We have one on B-118 that's a real leaner. It wouldn't piss me off if I took a saw to it - and replaced it with maybe a Blue Hill crab on standard Dolgo roots. No more B-118's for us.
We have one on B-118 that's a real leaner. It wouldn't piss me off if I took a saw to it - and replaced it with maybe a Blue Hill crab on standard Dolgo roots. No more B-118's for us.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Bows, it’s a Grimes Golden and planted on a south facing hillside. I also have 1,100 pounds of big rocks stacked on the uphill side to hold the roots down and two T-post anchoring it. The limbs I left are pointed uphill, so now I expect it to level out as it grows more. Hopefully what is below the ground can catch up with what is above ground (if that is possible).
I’m getting ready to plant a Rusty’s Favorite on the downhill side of this tree a few feet away. I didn’t want this thing falling and crashing into my new tree at some point down the road.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Native,
How old a tree is that on B118? Have seen some thoughts on here that sites that promote/capable of rapid tree growth are maybe not suitable for B118. I tend to agree with that.
I don't see any issues with B118 leaning on my trees but will say that tree growth is not spectacular like others talk about on here except with crabapples seedlings on their own roots. Compared to some crabapples, the grafted stuff on M7 and B118 just putz along on my sandy loam northern site
How old a tree is that on B118? Have seen some thoughts on here that sites that promote/capable of rapid tree growth are maybe not suitable for B118. I tend to agree with that.
I don't see any issues with B118 leaning on my trees but will say that tree growth is not spectacular like others talk about on here except with crabapples seedlings on their own roots. Compared to some crabapples, the grafted stuff on M7 and B118 just putz along on my sandy loam northern site
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
This one is 7 years old. This tree grew extremely fast and another Grimes did too. However some other cultivars on B118 have been more normal. This is one of several I’ve had to go down or lean badly. I have most of the ones left braced sufficiently now (I think).
I had a similar looking tree that was falling over like that. I placed a wooden post under the direction it was leaning and nailed the trunk to the top of the wooden post. In theory that should prevent the tree from falling down any more. It has worked well for a year.
I'm not a fan of B118 rootstock either - my B118's all seem to be tall and spindly looking. I'm really questioning their ability to hold up to large fruit loads.
I'm not a fan of B118 rootstock either - my B118's all seem to be tall and spindly looking. I'm really questioning their ability to hold up to large fruit loads.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Once this one started leaning the central leader would not turn vertical again. It was growing straight as an arrow at a 45 degree angle. The B118s I have left have all been braced with T posts. I like your idea too.
Diesel5610
5 year old buck +
Almost every one of my B118 trees look just like that one. Not a fan. Luckily I only have a few.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Native,
You got pictures of that tree through the years? How do you feel you pruned it as it grew? I am thinking B118 need to be pruned real hard, almost like peaches. 50-75% new growth cut back every year. What have you been feeding it for fertilizer? IT could be getting too much nitrogen is a possibility. Hard to get custom blends for orchards.
You doing any other pruning to that tree? USDA sometimes has notes on their inventory. They said williams pride does like M111's.
This is from penn state. They advise to use B118 in poor soils and/or spur types of trees. Basicaly infering to pruning it hard.
Couldnt help myself this spring. I pruned all 3 galarinas well. Thinking maybe switch the experiment to B118 and do at camp, poor soil. My clay soil is very rich. Got a few B118 crabapples from whitetail shooting off like a rocket. Probably pruned close to 50% of the tree off of it.
Anybody have bad experiences with B118, might need to pick a variety. Still sticking with zone 3 at camp. Too many polar vortex's and lake effect winds to really think a zone 4 tree will do ok up there.
You got pictures of that tree through the years? How do you feel you pruned it as it grew? I am thinking B118 need to be pruned real hard, almost like peaches. 50-75% new growth cut back every year. What have you been feeding it for fertilizer? IT could be getting too much nitrogen is a possibility. Hard to get custom blends for orchards.
You doing any other pruning to that tree? USDA sometimes has notes on their inventory. They said williams pride does like M111's.
This is from penn state. They advise to use B118 in poor soils and/or spur types of trees. Basicaly infering to pruning it hard.
Budagovsky 118 (B.118)
Budagovsky 118 (B.118) is a more vigorous clone out of the Minsk breeding program. It is more vigorous than the other rootstocks in the series but still imparts the high degree of winter-hardiness. It propagates easily in stool beds and does not sucker. It has moderate resistance to fire blight but is susceptible to Phytophthora. Because of the vigor of the rootstock it is only recommended for spur strains of apple or in weak soil or replant situations.Couldnt help myself this spring. I pruned all 3 galarinas well. Thinking maybe switch the experiment to B118 and do at camp, poor soil. My clay soil is very rich. Got a few B118 crabapples from whitetail shooting off like a rocket. Probably pruned close to 50% of the tree off of it.
Anybody have bad experiences with B118, might need to pick a variety. Still sticking with zone 3 at camp. Too many polar vortex's and lake effect winds to really think a zone 4 tree will do ok up there.
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
* I don’t have any pictures
* I didn’t fertilize it.
* Nothing special about pruning.
* Various others on B118 have gone down in storms, and even trees with less growth are loose in the ground.
The solution for me is simple - don’t buy any more and stick with other rootstocks that have done an excellent job.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I hope your GG will straighten up for you. It's tough to have a lot of time into a tree that gets to leaning badly. The rocks should help with anchoring the root system. Our big leaner is a N.Y. 35 "Bonkers" on B-118. We drove re-bar into the ground at several points and tied it off with wire and sleeves of garden hose - but it still leans. I love the apple itself - but the rootstock makes it a pain in the butt. Good luck with your GG!!
Rusty's Favorite is an apple I've looked at for the camp, too. We might be able to put one along a newly logged area that will get full sun. We're trying to coordinate planting new apples and crabs on the north sides of food plots, so we don't shade the plots. I have a 2nd Roadkill crab and a 2nd Turning Point coming from Blue Hill this spring.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I counted 6 known at my house, and 2 potential from stark's mystery rootstocks. I am grafting replacement M111's for them this year, Most of them are zone 3 friendly too, so I can transplant up at camp.
CrazyED is fustrated with them too, hes on sandy soil.
He had a bad experience with using wndow screen. Had a tree girdled from it., 10 year old if I recall I pulled out a screen on a 2 year old planting today, came out easy. Wondering If I should take mine out too now. My 1st year planting trees I used some 1/4" mesh loosely standing around the base about 18 inches up. No rabbit or vole damage using that. And on top of it, I used weedmat on mulch. I use stone isntead since then. I have alot of voles and rabbits at home.
TWalter91
5 year old buck +
I'm starting to notice some leaning issues on a couple trees I have from Wtc's. Which I believe to be on b118. A few of his trees have root suckers coming up so those are probably on m111? No issues with leaning on those trees though! Not trying to bash them at all. I have had great luck with his trees. But I'm no longer willing to order trees and try and guess what rootstock they're on. Hoping one day he specifies exactly what rootstock they're on while ordering it.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
He doe not advertise, but he will tell you. He also has more than B118. He gave me 1/2 anty 1/2 B118. I thought anty was the only way to go for zone 3. M7 isn't a bad choice either.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Did you wrap the screen tightly around the trunks?? The screen did the girdling?? When I screen our fruit tree trunks, I leave a good bit of room for trunk expansion as the tree grows. When viewed from above, the screens look like a tear-drop shape after I staple them shut. The bottoms of the screens get buried by 3" to 4" of crushed limestone screenings on top of weed mats to keep mice & voles from tunneling & chewing. Never had a girdling problem. I change the screens as the trunks get fatter to keep the protection from mice, voles, and rabbits.
Just a FYI - we had a couple big, old apple trees killed by mice / voles girdling them under the snow about 12 years ago. The trunks were about 15" - 16" in diameter, and had no screens on them. That taught us a lesson, that even big old trees can be wiped out by a tiny critter. Damage isn't restricted to just young trees.
cavey
5 year old buck +
Been there as well, hard lesson to learn - heart breaker to have a mature tree(s) get girdled - I keep the screen on as long as I can, one the tree gets too big, I flip the screen sideways and put it back on the larger trunk. It doesnt have the height of protection it once gave but I find that the older trees if they get girdled its just around the bottom 4 inches or so -- when flipped the screen provides all of that and more protection extending the use of the original screen.
cavey
5 year old buck +
I've gone away from B118 and gone back to my original Anty's for root stock - they have been pretty much bullet proof rootstock for me.
Apple Junkie
5 year old buck +
I am not a fan of the B-118 rootstock for the same reason you guys’ mention, it’s not as well anchored as other similar size rootstocks. I have several that have been in the ground for 7 to 8 years, and have staked some to correct leaning. I kinda like Native’s approach – I had not considered such radial surgery! But once above the browse line, I may switch my pruning objective from a central leader concept to an open center approach. My objective would be to bring the tree’s center of gravity lower which may lessen the tendency to lean. Also, bigboreblr makes a good point in noting this rootstock may be appropriate for less vigorous varieties only.
