john volkman
5 year old buck +
this is exactly my experience and im in WI as well. they wont touch rye until all other food sources are exhausted.
Neighbors keep shooting biggest bucks during rifle season. Only outlier is they have the late season food sources
- Thread starter alldaysit
- Start date
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Are you over-seeding or planting a lone crop of WR?
What do you mean they won't touch until all other food sources are gone ... what else do you planT?
My late season food plot strategy is simple, at least 20 acres or more of food plots of various kinds. This year I did not plant any corn for the first time in years. I do have over 8 acres of RR ag soy beans standing. I have 3 acres of dwarf Essex rape seed in various size plots. I also have an acre plus of black oil sunflower that was mixed in with my iron and clay cowpeas to let the vines grow vertical. I put in quite a few acres of RR Eagle Northern managers mix which died out with the first hard frosts. However, 20% of the beans in this mix produce pods so there is another place the deer can find food. I seeded disked ground and overseeded soy beans with 150 pounds of winter rye. This will work great when the snow is on the ground and also produce a spring food source for the does before fawning. My farmer had winter kill on the 12 acre alfalfa field that I rent to him. He planted RR ag soy beans this year to get rid of weeds and then will do a spring planting of alfalfa with oats as a cover crop.
When gun deer season rolls around, my plots are some of the last ones available to the deer. Except for corn that is chopped weekly for cows which is okay by me to give the deer some corn to eat. All the farm fields in a 3 mile circle have long been picked by the farmers. In years that I count the 12 acre alfalfa field, I can have anywhere from 25 to 30+ acres of late food available for the deer. A good deal of this is so they have an overwinter food source.
When gun deer season rolls around, my plots are some of the last ones available to the deer. Except for corn that is chopped weekly for cows which is okay by me to give the deer some corn to eat. All the farm fields in a 3 mile circle have long been picked by the farmers. In years that I count the 12 acre alfalfa field, I can have anywhere from 25 to 30+ acres of late food available for the deer. A good deal of this is so they have an overwinter food source.
john volkman
5 year old buck +
they wont utilize the rye until the other food plots or even waste grain from neighboring ag fields is exhausted. corn, beans, brassicas you name it, the rye is the last thing they will hit, most of the utilization happens in early spring, almost zero usage during hunting season(oct-jan)
cavey
5 year old buck +
JFK,
[QUOTE="I also have an acre plus of black oil sunflower that was mixed in with my iron and clay cow peas to let the vines grow vertical. [/QUOTE]
not to jack the topic into a diff direction but, JFK how has that sunflower and pea mix worked for you as far as that vine effect - did enough of the peas actually find the SF stalk and make the climb? Are you happy with the results? I used sunflower mixes before - like a pheasant blend but never added vine/climbing plants... I have done just sunflower(cheap bags of bird seed) seeds as a early fall kill plot heavily seeding them - deer will hammer the new growth, but an early frost and put an end to the fresh growth though.
Just curious, thanks
[QUOTE="I also have an acre plus of black oil sunflower that was mixed in with my iron and clay cow peas to let the vines grow vertical. [/QUOTE]
not to jack the topic into a diff direction but, JFK how has that sunflower and pea mix worked for you as far as that vine effect - did enough of the peas actually find the SF stalk and make the climb? Are you happy with the results? I used sunflower mixes before - like a pheasant blend but never added vine/climbing plants... I have done just sunflower(cheap bags of bird seed) seeds as a early fall kill plot heavily seeding them - deer will hammer the new growth, but an early frost and put an end to the fresh growth though.
Just curious, thanks
alldaysit
5 year old buck +
john volkman
5 year old buck +
northeastern wi , i hunt in buffalo county wi as well. Im specifically talking about my NE WI farms though. this is an ag area with it being about 50/50 ag to wooded . We have fairly high deer density.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
I am in central Wisconsin ... heavy ag land way too many food sources to complete with.
Are you putting out exclusion cages? When I plant rye in early to mid September, it starts to grow as everything else is over browsed or is dying back as frost is killing it. Really only gets 2-3" when the deer are browsing it.
My WR never gets more than 3"-4" this time of year, deer keep clipped back as they are browsing clover, brassicas, etc. WR stands up extremely well to hard frosts, sonw, etc.
What you are seeing is absolutely atypical ... WR becomes the only green source in the Sept-Dec cold hard frost transition ... deer will hammer it. Thesoil helth benefits become absolute in favor of it Fall to Spring transition ...
john volkman
5 year old buck +
i overseed my plots with WR every year for the post season and spring time benefits both for the soil and the deer. I have put cages up etc. It gets virtually zero use by deer in the fall/ early winter here. In areas with very high deer density i can see it being more utilized. I would say this area has a high density, some pockets even have ultra high(100+ per square mile). Another factor could be that our PH is at or above 7 and all types of food are used differently than in areas where the ph is lower. About the only place i see high usage is in small areas of ultra high deer density where the browse line is severe. In those areas its common for farmers to oversee with Radish and rye and i think the radish are receiving the bulk of the pressure. Those same areas even had winter kill several years ago which is somewhat unheard of in ag country. I Have seen other areas in wi where rye isnt utilized like many others see. Im not claiming WR is underutilized everywhere just that its not the magic attractant many tout it as.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
JW ... very interesting. We have very high deer density, 3rd highest in the state. Our property and a couple of surrounding properties will hold or exceed (unfortunately) #'s similiar to what you present.
When do they overseed with radish and what type? Takes me 60-75 days to get a reasonable bulb on a turnip or radish if I plant mid to late July.
What radishes are they overseeding with? Why do they overseed with these and what is the parent crop?
Very intersting ... appreciate any feedback you can privide.
john volkman
5 year old buck +
im not a farmer so what i learn is in talks with our local farmers so dont take this as absolute. Most are seeding with a tillage radish and either Rye or another cereal grain like winter triticale. The planting is done in august and september and its common to see radish with tubers this time of year in the fields if fall has normal weather and moisture. The benefits are varied, but erosion prevention, bringing nitrogen to the surface and eliminating soil compaction are all reasons its common use here now. its very common to see 40 acre fields or larger seeded this way. its obviously a bonus for a deer popualtion since normally these fields nutritional value would be little to none after harvest.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
JV, think I remember you are somewhere around Door County? Definite advantage there on later frosts in the fall with the Green Bay and Lake Michigan heat sinks on either side so likely a longer growing window than most of WI from planting in Aug. Following a quick check, looks to be zone 5b which is the same zone corresponding to central IL or northern counties in MO.
john volkman
5 year old buck +
yes i think our first frost average date is about oct 1st. We typically are a week or more later than some areas "inland"
Cavey, it worked well. I had good growth on the iron and clay cowpeas. The deer ate them in a three week stretch that I was not at my farm in September before hard frost. Cleaned out an entire acre. Now I have 4-5 foot tall sunflower plants that have 6-8 inch diameter seed heads. It should be a late season attractant.
I also planted just black oil sunflower seeds in other areas by themselves. There, the deer ate the plants as soon as they grew. I laughed as all I had left was the bottom 4- 6 inches of the stems.
I also planted just black oil sunflower seeds in other areas by themselves. There, the deer ate the plants as soon as they grew. I laughed as all I had left was the bottom 4- 6 inches of the stems.
cavey
5 year old buck +
They do munch the stuff pretty hard and you can get 50 lbs bags pretty cheap... I think they can make for a good little kill plot for early bow hunting if everything times out right. The vine up the stalk/cow pea mix sounds good... My fear is both would get hammered so hard neither would grow up here but i've never done a combo like that... i guess if you could grow them together corn would have the same effect.
alldaysit
5 year old buck +
My brain thoughts as the past few days have passed:
Well, I dumped out the legal amount of feed. Actually it felt kind of weird really. It took a lot of pressure off me for some reason. Like almost knowing it’s exactly what the herd wants on the property that’s safe; except for the mature bucks and a few select does if I get a crack at them. I have the cover all the neighbors want (because it holds deer), and now I have the food I know the deer want. The herds that call my properties home will no longer have to move to the neighboring corn piles (I haven’t harvested a mature buck *yet leaving my property to head to there corn pile but I have watched a few do it). It’s almost like a strange insurance policy for the herd now.
My family and friends all think I have been crazy for not baiting in the past, and I said I was against it even though every neighbor I have does it. Now I’m wondering how much this will negatively or positively impact my hunting for the next month. I’m actually pretty excited in a way I thought I would have always been against, even though it seems everyone but some of the people on here bait.
So to sum it up. Why would I not give my family and myself every chance I could, and give every chance to try and keep the deer on my property for as long as possible that I could? Seems selfish and I feel bad about it, but everyone around me baits anyway so what other choice do I have in reality to increase my odds.
I couldn’t keep a bean plant growing because of the herd wiping them out, now I have a corn “plot” I can dump out. I seriously can’t believe I’m typing this at this point in my habitat “career”.
The worm always turns and sometimes the damn thing comes back to where it started; it just added a bunch of weight on the way back in the form of knowledge and experience in habitat now. Funny thinking about it really, my dad taught me to hunt and he always had a bait pile somewhere we could count on for seeing something. That’s what got me hooked on hunting really. He still does it and he still shoots good bucks each year, come to think of it he has more than anyone I know personally. I took a turn about five years ago and started down this habitat improvement path and have had predictable and great results without baiting. My old man stayed the same course with unpredictability, but kept the bait for as much predictability as he could get. Seems if I merge everything now the results could be really beneficial for the family (and myself :-)). I guess we will see. Thanks for reading my thoughts :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, I dumped out the legal amount of feed. Actually it felt kind of weird really. It took a lot of pressure off me for some reason. Like almost knowing it’s exactly what the herd wants on the property that’s safe; except for the mature bucks and a few select does if I get a crack at them. I have the cover all the neighbors want (because it holds deer), and now I have the food I know the deer want. The herds that call my properties home will no longer have to move to the neighboring corn piles (I haven’t harvested a mature buck *yet leaving my property to head to there corn pile but I have watched a few do it). It’s almost like a strange insurance policy for the herd now.
My family and friends all think I have been crazy for not baiting in the past, and I said I was against it even though every neighbor I have does it. Now I’m wondering how much this will negatively or positively impact my hunting for the next month. I’m actually pretty excited in a way I thought I would have always been against, even though it seems everyone but some of the people on here bait.
So to sum it up. Why would I not give my family and myself every chance I could, and give every chance to try and keep the deer on my property for as long as possible that I could? Seems selfish and I feel bad about it, but everyone around me baits anyway so what other choice do I have in reality to increase my odds.
I couldn’t keep a bean plant growing because of the herd wiping them out, now I have a corn “plot” I can dump out. I seriously can’t believe I’m typing this at this point in my habitat “career”.
The worm always turns and sometimes the damn thing comes back to where it started; it just added a bunch of weight on the way back in the form of knowledge and experience in habitat now. Funny thinking about it really, my dad taught me to hunt and he always had a bait pile somewhere we could count on for seeing something. That’s what got me hooked on hunting really. He still does it and he still shoots good bucks each year, come to think of it he has more than anyone I know personally. I took a turn about five years ago and started down this habitat improvement path and have had predictable and great results without baiting. My old man stayed the same course with unpredictability, but kept the bait for as much predictability as he could get. Seems if I merge everything now the results could be really beneficial for the family (and myself :-)). I guess we will see. Thanks for reading my thoughts :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
It hunting. It's not a moral absolute like cheating on your wife or killing your neighbor. Try different things; have fun, experiment with techniques, try different weapons, take people with you and/or hunt solo, plant plots, hinge trees, dump corn, do a well thought out feed program, build water holes, hunt mid-day, hunt the wind or don't, build a fence, hire a guide, etc. Nobody is going to hell for dumping a pile of corn or using a crossbow. Make clean kills and don't repeat things that didn't feel good in your heart. Who knows, this may work out horribly for you and by next year you will want nothing to do with it again. Or, you may love it and you and your family will become quite satisfied with feeding. The point is hunting and habitat management is fun and nobody else in the world can define that for you.
Great post and I wish the best season for you and your family!
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
I can bait, and have in the past, the biggest downside for me was it attracted bears. Since I stopped baiting, the bears have seemed to stay away for the most part. Other then to ramsack my apple trees late in the season, but I am going to pluck the hanging apples off, and see if that helps with my tree problems.
If you dont have a bear problem in your area, it should only help, but older deer are smart, and will learn not to visit bait piles during the daytime. If you do have bear problems, then I only wish you luck on having more of them.
If you dont have a bear problem in your area, it should only help, but older deer are smart, and will learn not to visit bait piles during the daytime. If you do have bear problems, then I only wish you luck on having more of them.
I have the same problem at my place. Last year I went out during the rut after a light snowfall only to find no tracks or deer sign on my 40. I have been doing habit improvements, food plots, hinge cutting and have a sanctuary. So I should have some deer. It was the first year for baiting since the ban years ago. I went for a drive down the road and found out that my neighbor had a wide packed down driveway into there hunting land. It was real obvious that they were going in and out daily to feed/ bait deer. I didn’t want to get in to the baiting game again but also want deer on my side of the fence to hunt. I ended up baiting again, I put my bait pile in a spot I could get in to easy. I didn’t want to chase deer out or off my property. My bait ended up just 50 to 75 yards off my yard. I only hunted over it one time,the second to the last day to fill a doe tag with my muzzle loader. This year they planted 3 acres of corn and left most of it standing for the deer and they are still feeding daily. It will make hunting harder on my side of the fence. I hope they are over hunting there land and the deer will move on to my low pressure side. This next spring I will have to try to step up my game to complete, I am thinking I could do soybeans on my land. I don’t have room for corn, I think bear and coon would eat it up before the deer wanted it, even with a plot saver, of electric fence.
