My multi year battle with pigweed story:

[Crimson n' Camo]

I’m about to call it a day…..I’ll get deeper into the weeds of it tomorrow but it sounds as if you’re focusing to much on the methods and not enough on the principles and concepts behind them…..It’s not about Jeff’s method….or CnC’s method…..or whoever’s “method”…….It’s about understanding the soil…..understanding how it functions……understanding the different variable at play and how they impact your success, etc……If you understand those then you can look at each individual field and create whatever process will suite it best for its current conditions…..Sometimes you have to adapt, improvise, and overcome…….and you can’t do that if all you know is someone else’s “method”……I hate how folks have commercialized these ideas and tried to make it “their method” like he and others have done for this very reason.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I'll keep adding a little to this........One of the first things to recognize is that this is a long term soil building process....Its not a one year planting that you step back and decide if it was a "success" or not.....You have to have perspective on where your soil is now and where you're trying to go.......Here is my sandy soil when I started......

Here it is today...There's a big, big difference in plotting in the sand in the first pic versus plotting in this rich organic matter......

 

[Tree Spud]

I'll keep adding a little to this........One of the first things to recognize is that this is a long term soil building process....Its not a one year planting that you step back and decide if it was a "success" or not.....You have to have perspective on where your soil is now and where you're trying to go.......Here is my sandy soil when I started......

Here it is today...There's a big, big difference in plotting in the sand in the first pic versus plotting in this rich organic matter......

Looks good. What plants did you put in to build the OM? How long have you been doing this to achieve those type of results?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Looks good. What plants did you put in to build the OM? How long have you been doing this to achieve those type of results?

I started experimenting with these concepts about 10 years ago. I saw very noticeable improvements within just a few years. Most of it has been built using whatever native vegetation grew during the summer months and cereal rye, crimson clover during the winter.....The first few years of summer veg was mostly crabgrass....it has changed over time and become and much more diverse mix of broadleafs.....not a whole lot of crabgrass left but there's still a little...

 

[Tree Spud]

I started experimenting with these concepts about 10 years ago. I saw very noticeable improvements within just a few years. Most of it has been built using whatever native vegetation grew during the summer months and cereal rye, crimson clover during the winter.....The first few years of summer veg was mostly crabgrass....it has changed over time and become and much more diverse mix of broadleafs.....not a whole lot of crabgrass left but there's still a little...

Do you do anything to till the OM into the soil?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Do you do anything to till the OM into the soil?

No, its been completely no-till......There was a year or two when the biomass was a little more than the soil could process efficiently but I think it was just due to the microbial community having to reestablish itself. Its eats it up with no issues now. There's some products on the market now that are like an inoculant for helping with this matter. It may be well worth looking into for someone jus starting out

 

[Jake]

August 25th replant did the trick. No till spot gained some good growth.

Happy plotter. Thanks for all the replies. New plans for next year for sure.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I did notice one thing in particular about pig weed this summer while pulling a bunch of it. It has to be doing something good to the biology. Every single plant that I pulled had at least one earth worm in the clump of dirt surrounding the roots. Not sure what to take from it but its worm food if nothing else.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I did notice one thing in particular about pig weed this summer while pulling a bunch of it. It has to be doing something good to the biology. Every single plant that I pulled had at least one earth worm in the clump of dirt surrounding the roots. Not sure what to take from it but its worm food if nothing else.

Possibly natures way of trying to improve soil structure/tilth......I believe that everything has a purpose....we just dont understand much of them because we've discarded them all in the past and labeled them all "weeds"

 

[Jake]

Last update.
No till spot came in slow but caught up in September. Very happy with it. Lot of seed I spread.




Planted twice spot is looking good. Glad I tilled again.


Bird's eye view :)

 

[Doublewide]

How's the pigweed after last years trial and errors? I'm just starting to have it infiltrate my plots, I did the throw, spray and crimp on my plots last week but the pigweed didn't lay down after dragging the tiller unhooked from the pto so I followed up with the cultipacker and it is still standing tall. I was going to mow but I'm concerned about the seed being displaced by the rotary blades and the uneven thatch , that brush hogging creates, burying my seed to the point that it be smothered to the point the WR wouldn't sprout. The pigweed as others have mentioned is resistant to the gly I sprayed.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I know your not directing the question at me but here is my "one year later"

I had a fair amount of pigweed in my "diversity" plot on the valley property last year. I spread my buckwheat seed into standing winter barley and a large amount of grasses and other weeds. Followed that up with a good crimping. I wanted to spray after crimping to take out all the other stuff but I had a sprayer issue so didn't get that done. The buckwheat came in ok but the plot is still mostly weeds.

I have walked through the plot a few times and have yet to notice any pigweed. This plot will be going into a barley/pea/sunflower/radish mix here within the next week or two.

 

[SD51555]

I'm wondering if i didn't buy a bunch of pigweed seed this summer. I spread a bag of forage oats last weekend, and it was dirty. Lots of dust, lots of chaff. So much for certified seed. It's a fun process learning how to deal with weeds without chem or iron. I've beaten some with lime, I've beaten some with barley, I've beated some with the mower. The coolest one so far has been barley against sedge.

 

[Troubles Trees]

Not trying to hijack this thread but reading this one from the beginning now I always have the same question in my head. People discuss things like not tilling because you have many years of weed (unwanted plant) seed in the seed bank, and I quietly think to myself "How do seeds not sprout every year under natural conditions in undisturbed fallow fields?"

A seed doesn't know how much competition it will have each year to choose to sprout a root and either live or die to drought or being out-competed. All a seed knows is soil temperature and if it has enough moisture to sprout which is typically plentiful with the snow melt every spring. At least that is how it goes in my head :)

If my 4wheeler EVER gets fixed I am going to turn a 1 acre fallow goldenrod field into a food plot so it is kinda relevant to this thread lol I ask questions because I am new with all this plot stuff so thank you for your patients if it is a noob question :)

 

[Doublewide]

I know your not directing the question at me but here is my "one year later"

I had a fair amount of pigweed in my "diversity" plot on the valley property last year. I spread my buckwheat seed into standing winter barley and a large amount of grasses and other weeds. Followed that up with a good crimping. I wanted to spray after crimping to take out all the other stuff but I had a sprayer issue so didn't get that done. The buckwheat came in ok but the plot is still mostly weeds.

I have walked through the plot a few times and have yet to notice any pigweed. This plot will be going into a barley/pea/sunflower/radish mix here within the next week or two.

Thanks for the update S.T. Since purchasing land I enjoy reading about successful land management issues as much as a successful hunt. Who'd have thought that years ago...

 

[SD51555]

Not trying to hijack this thread but reading this one from the beginning now I always have the same question in my head. People discuss things like not tilling because you have many years of weed (unwanted plant) seed in the seed bank, and I quietly think to myself "How do seeds not sprout every year under natural conditions in undisturbed fallow fields?"

A seed doesn't know how much competition it will have each year to choose to sprout a root and either live or die to drought or being out-competed. All a seed knows is soil temperature and if it has enough moisture to sprout which is typically plentiful with the snow melt every spring. At least that is how it goes in my head :)

If my 4wheeler EVER gets fixed I am going to turn a 1 acre fallow goldenrod field into a food plot so it is kinda relevant to this thread lol I ask questions because I am new with all this plot stuff so thank you for your patients if it is a noob question :)

Lots of things trigger a weed seed to germinate. It can be soil pH, tillage, stimulation from other plants, excess nutrients, deficient nutrients, competition removal, fungal death, fertilzer application, rain, drought, compaction, overgrazing, no grazing, etc. Native stuff is designed to wait for just the right signal for go-time. And there's always something on deck. Ma don't do blank. That's why I think it's insanity to keep repeating the spray/till cycle with the same weed. They seem to keep coming back because the catalyst is always the same.

It's why I'm always looking to step 2+ before I do something. Right now, I'm trying to figure out if I can plant my brassicas in the fall of the year before I intend for them to be grazed (collards) and make it all the way through the next year without mowing, or mow early enough that they regen before bolting. That'd also be without tilling, spraying, or fertilizing anywhere in that year and a half.

Crazy? Maybe.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Thanks for the update S.T. Since purchasing land I enjoy reading about successful land management issues as much as a successful hunt. Who'd have thought that years ago...

love the avatar.....wish i had thought o that

bill

 

[TreeDaddy]

Lots of things trigger a weed seed to germinate. It can be soil pH, tillage, stimulation from other plants, excess nutrients, deficient nutrients, competition removal, fungal death, fertilzer application, rain, drought, compaction, overgrazing, no grazing, etc. Native stuff is designed to wait for just the right signal for go-time. And there's always something on deck. Ma don't do blank. That's why I think it's insanity to keep repeating the spray/till cycle with the same weed. They seem to keep coming back because the catalyst is always the same.

It's why I'm always looking to step 2+ before I do something. Right now, I'm trying to figure out if I can plant my brassicas in the fall of the year before I intend for them to be grazed (collards) and make it all the way through the next year without mowing, or mow early enough that they regen before bolting. That'd also be without tilling, spraying, or fertilizing anywhere in that year and a half.

Crazy? Maybe.

maybe so, but i get a kick outta thinking about it and learning from my observations of mother nature

bill

 

[SD51555]

maybe so, but i get a kick outta thinking about it and learning from my observations of mother nature

bill

Me too man. Nature is a fascinating creature.


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[Troubles Trees]

Lots of things trigger a weed seed to germinate. It can be soil pH, tillage, stimulation from other plants, excess nutrients, deficient nutrients, competition removal, fungal death, fertilzer application, rain, drought, compaction, overgrazing, no grazing, etc

Thank you for the response SD!
I had no idea a seed can feel out grazing pressure, surrounding nutrients or anything more than moisture and temperature but that still leaves me with the same question. The seed landed where it landed, I can't imagine it would wait in the soil until the surrounding PH/ nutrients etc change years later, but I know little about the topic to be honest. The plant that made the seed produced it in ideal enough conditions to make it to reproduction stage I would think as soon as it was seasonably warm enough and got enough moisture to sprout it would throw a radical and either establish a root in the soil or either dry out or get shaded out before it got big enough. This stuff confuses me as you can tell lol