Mostly Failed New Plot (Vermont)

[Jer]

Below are pictures of my second food plot that I have planted. It's on a completely different property than my first one i have planted for 3 years. My first has been a great success. This one as you can see is not so good. Here are the details to this plot that was admittedly rushed. The total area is approximately .42 acres. It was an old opening from previous logging that had been done over years. There was a mixture of grass, ferns and various vegetation that was maybe 3' tall. I went in with a backpack sprayer on Thursday July 28th in the afternoon. 3 days later, July 31st on Sunday morning I came in with my 23 HP tractor and 4' tiller along with my industrial weed whacker. I weed whacked the entire area to expose the many field stones that were present. I then spread only (2) 50lb bags of 19-19-19 fertilizer. I picked as many visible stones as I could see and then tilled in all the vegetation & fertilizer, until I had dirt exposed (along with about a dozen bucket loads of fieldstones I removed after tilling). Not having my ATV or a cultipacker, I drove over the plot with my tractor to pack. Then broadcast a bag of shot plot (barkant turnip and barsicca rape), sized for 1/2 acre.

I checked the plot 3 weeks later, and it was not looking good. We had rain immediately after I planted, but then nothing for rain for 2 weeks. I'm wondering if the seedlings had emerged and the hot sun killed them? Plot looked like a dirt plot. (pic file size to large to upload).

I went back with 50lbs of winter rye and half a bag of Urea. I spread urea on the plants that were growing, which was nearly all turnip. The rape seems to have been a total failure. This past weekend 9/4/16 I checked after the rye had been broadcast for 7 days with one day of rain and not a single seed had germinated. Turkeys seem to be vacuuming up the WR seed, which was a bummer also. Turnips were growing, but look stunted and already growing small bulbs. Very different from my other plot. I took a soil sample and brought to UVM to test. Results are due 9/12 so I can formulate a plan for 2017 planting.


I picked up a second bag of WR because the turkeys did a number on the first bag. I plan on going back tonight (9/8) to broadcast the WR and the other half bag of Urea. Am I hurting the germination of the WR, by also broadcasting Urea? Rain is in the forecast for tonight as well as Saturday night. All I have read about Urea and seed is NOT to do it with corn seed. Curious about WR also? I should note that I did not put Urea everywhere because the turnip/rape didn't grow everywhere. Some areas there was only WR seed and it also did not germinate. I appreciate any advice.

Thank you,
Jer

 

[BuckSutherland]

A half of bag of urea on .42 acres isnt gonna hurt anything.

 

[Jer]

Buck,

Even if the urea granules are touching the WR seed? That won't hurt the seed from germinating?

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Cosmetic damage is possible, but you need some N brother!

 

[Jer]

Ha! I don't care what the WR looks like, so long as the deer like it! It's been so dry here that I figured conditions were what killed the barsicca rape. You think it's lack of Nitrogen? I only had a couple bags of 19-19-19, but I figured that would have at least gotten the plants out of the ground. Thank you for all replies

 

[JoshAnderson]

you can burn seed with nitrogen. it is not recommended to use urea at the time of planting.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Its a lack of moisture as well as a lack of N. You can only something about one of them.

 

[j-bird]

My other concern would be the pH of the soil in this plot. The pH level controls how much of that fertilizer can actually be used by your plants. If you have a poor pH you could be wasting far more fertilizer than the plants are using. I also would have tilled your ground - then spread you initial seed and then packed the ground. I do it all the time. By packing the ground first the larger seed sits on top and it's far easier for the birds to make a meal of it. Small seed like turnip tend to escape the pillaging by the birds and is small enough that rain will drive it into the ground. Larger seeds tend to like to be pushed down into the soil for better germination rates. The rain is one of those things you can't control, so you may have a couple of things working against you. Spread some rye, pray for rain and put out a couple tin pans on sticks to help keep the birds away. Spreading any remaining fertilizer more than likely won't hurt anything. Your soil test results will be interesting. However you may lean just how valuable they can be and how not all dirt is the same. Good luck.

 

[BuckSutherland]

you can burn seed with nitrogen. it is not recommended to use urea at the time of planting.

This year I spread 400# of urea per acre on some of my corn on corn ground. Then I field cultivated and planted my seed an hour later. Also put down 75# AMS, 75# Dap, and 75# of Potash 2 inches away from the seed. I didnt get any burn. Unless you have a LOT of urea and coarse soil you will be just fine.

 

[bbcoach]

Don't do anything until you get that soil sample back!!!! I'll bet you will have a low PH and will require several tons of lime in order to grow anything. If you need lime, get it down now as it will take about 6 months to neutralize the soil. Let us know what the sample recommends.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

As J-Bird and BBcoach said, lime is the chemical " key " that allows up-take of nutrients from the soil. We did a test patch some years ago at my camp on an old sour field. We just spread some bags of pelletized lime - nothing else - in early fall, and the following spring, we had wild clover and other succulent plants growing. No seeding done. This was where only some wiry, grayish short grass and moss had grown before the lime. Try adding some lime. For that size plot, I'd put down (6) 50lb. bags of lime now and see what next spring brings for results. ( You might also throw down more lime on top of the last snows and let the melting snow take the lime down into the soil too ). For the acid rain the Northeast states get, lime will never hurt !!

 

[Jer]

I 100% agree with you all about the ph. This will be an interesting experiment. I limed my other plot which is awesome, but opted not to do this one before planting. Sometimes you have to learn by doing, in order to believe what your told to do will work :) I will for sure amend the ph (along with other nutrients) for next year after I get back the soil sample results.

NH, I am located in Center of the state.

There was a 50% chance of rain in the forecast for yesterday evening. Yesterday after work, I brought in another half bag of urea and 50lbs or WR. Upon arrival the brassicas did respond to the last top dressing of urea. As expected the turkeys have been in there fattening up for the fall. We did get rain for at least an hour and more during the night, which made me smile.

Does anyone have experience with broadcasting lime on top of a brassica plot in the fall that is at this stage of growth? Would there be any ill effects of the lime sitting on top of these brassica leaves? As others have mentioned it takes time for the lime to work. I have plans of trying a spring planting here and would like to amend the soil before then, which would need to be now of course.

Rain is forecast for this weekend. Hope we get it.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I never put lime down on top of any plants before, but looking at your pic above, I'd be spreading lime in all the thin spots where not much is growing. If you get rain, it'll get diluted and spread around on it's own to some degree. If you disc, harrow, or otherwise work up your soil in the spring, you'll spread the limed soil around by that action too. Bottom line - if that was my plot, I'd be throwing down some lime - just not on top of the brassica leaves. The first time I spread lime on the crappy field I mentioned in post #11 above, I used a tin can to dip into the bags and tossed it around that way. ( We now have a lime spreader !! ). But it worked like a charm. My sons and I threw pelletized lime down on top of snow in that same field in late March. Snow melt took the lime down into the soil. Time - ( early spreading of lime ) is your best friend.

 

[Spartacus]

The lime application on the brassica at this time will not cause any damage. Go ahead and sling some before the rain!!

 

[Jer]

Thanks for the reply Spartacus and B&B. I am supposed to have the soil tests back today, so I'll at least wait to see what is recommended before I start throwing lime. Agreed it would have been good before the good soaker we received this weekend.

I had another problem in my "good" brassica plot when I checked on Saturday. In a weeks time it went from a gorgeous, luscious plot to 15% (so far) toasted from what appears to be Alternaria Leaf Spot.