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Milk jug "mini-greenhouses"

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
I posted in Bucksnort's thread on Friday that I put some Buckman crab seeds in a milk jug to try that method posted by someone on here. Today - all the Buckman crabs seeds have broken ground in the milk jug and are about 1" tall so far. Leaves are busting out of seed husks. I poked a small hole in the top and bottom of the hinged jug and tie it shut with a twist-wire. Easy in & out for added water as needed. If they keep growing like this, I'll need to get more pots to transplant them into soon!

Just another satisfied experimenter. Those opaque milk jugs work!
 
I posted in Bucksnort's thread on Friday that I put some Buckman crab seeds in a milk jug to try that method posted by someone on here. Today - all the Buckman crabs seeds have broken ground in the milk jug and are about 1" tall so far. Leaves are busting out of seed husks. I poked a small hole in the top and bottom of the hinged jug and tie it shut with a twist-wire. Easy in & out for added water as needed. If they keep growing like this, I'll need to get more pots to transplant them into soon!

Just another satisfied experimenter. Those opaque milk jugs work!
Sounds like an excellent idea! I’ve got some seeds I started inside that I’ve been taking out when the weather is nice. The damn squirrels thought they should look for acorns in there the other day and killed a couple. The milk jug would definitely prevent that from happening.
 
BuckSnort - The milk jugs weren't my idea. Someone else on here (don't remember who) posted pics of theirs, so I tried it. The jugs work well as seed nurseries! I haven't had time to go back & see who posted the original pics and idea.
 
BuckSnort - The milk jugs weren't my idea. Someone else on here (don't remember who) posted pics of theirs, so I tried it. The jugs work well as seed nurseries! I haven't had time to go back & see who posted the original pics and idea.
I wonder the effects this would have on cuttings? You could fit a dozen cuttings or more in these.
 
BuckSnort - The milk jugs weren't my idea. Someone else on here (don't remember who) posted pics of theirs, so I tried it. The jugs work well as seed nurseries! I haven't had time to go back & see who posted the original pics and idea.
Guilty—in the Apples, Apples And More Apples thread. However you guys are thinking of new ways to use the jugs. I have only used them for planting seeds in January- March and putting them outside immediately after planting and the original watering. It is a home run deal so far, like the old set it and forget it rotisserie. In the jugs the seeds are planted watered and not even looked at until planting time.

The new uses you guys are coming up is good thinking.
 
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Someone needs to take a chunk of rootstock and put it in a jug with just a bit of it exposed. Grow your own rootstock for next year.


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I need to grow willow stakes so they have roots by spring so I can plant for river bank stabilization
 
I need to grow willow stakes so they have roots by spring so I can plant for river bank stabilization
Interesting point Buckdeer1. Around Pa. I see more and more landowners cutting ALL the trees down on stream banks. And then articles & letters-to-the-editor crop up complaining about stream bank erosion and loss of soils. Makes me wonder if we've learned anything from past mistakes.

Interesting idea of trying roots or cuttings in milk jugs. That would be a boost if cuttings would root easier.
 
This is believed to be the website of the original inventor of jug planting. It is where I learned about it to use for daylily seedings. Like apples they need stratifying. Prior to this I used direct seeding into the ground in late fall. That worked well but it had shortfalls compared to the winter planting seeds in jugs.

http://wintersown.org/
 
Interesting point Buckdeer1. Around Pa. I see more and more landowners cutting ALL the trees down on stream banks. And then articles & letters-to-the-editor crop up complaining about stream bank erosion and loss of soils. Makes me wonder if we've learned anything from past mistakes.

Interesting idea of trying roots or cuttings in milk jugs. That would be a boost if cuttings would root easier.

Seems odd. When I was in PA, TU had a big impact on stream remediation. Trout fishing was a big thing, especially with all the limestone streams. One of the factors, as I recall, was water temperature. Shading of stream banks was one of the things they were trying to restore.

Down here in VA, everything is warm water east of the Blue Ridge and even the mountain streams are freestone. I recently saw a cattle farm near my place change hands. When it did, they fenced off a small small stream that runs through it. They dug a small watering hole outside the fence, off to one side, and diverted a small amount of water into it for the cattle. The next time I drove by I saw lots of tree tubes staggered along the stream inside the fence. I presume it is some kind of USDA NRCS cost sharing program, but I'm glad to see projects like that. Cattle using small streams can really be problematic for water quality.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack- I've been a member of TU for years and was a chapter secretary and a director for probably 10 years. You're correct that TU has been a strong proponent of stream bank stabilization and shading. I was personally involved in several such projects on publicly accessible streams. The tree cutting being done on stream banks for several years has mainly been on private land for whatever reason. I've seen a number of such private locations where the banks were stripped of all trees, only to have the land wash out in high water conditions. Some of those were farmland and those farmers lost a HUGE amount of good topsoil - and acreage - to floods. Rural roads were also wiped out because previously tree-stabilized banks washed out easily and the roadways went right along with them. Millions in taxpayers' money to re-build those roads.

I have no idea what their reasoning was, but they lost a lot. Trees that are native to riparian zones are not typically hardwoods good for market purposes, so maybe they sold the trees for firewood. (?) Good farmland that bordered several streams was wiped out and is no longer tillable - topsoil gone and lots of stream gravel / rocks. Ironically, some of those previously productive acreages have become riparian tree-planting zones supervised by state and federal agencies to eliminate soil erosion and stream siltation. Had those private land owners left the original trees in place, they most likely wouldn't have lost so much soil and productive acreage, and government agencies wouldn't have become involved.

In the mountains here in Pa., heavy rains and snow runoff don't turn the streams muddy or wash out acres of ground because the trees hold the soil and stabilize the banks. Farmland & rural, cleared acreage where there are no trees, or very few trees along the banks of streams is where the majority of soil erosion occurs. Groups like TU can only advise private landowners on stream bank stabilization - they have no authority to force the issue. Your example of fencing a stream from cattle and diverting some flow into a watering hole outside the streamside riparian zone is a great way to manage the situation for cattlemen.
 
Jack- I've been a member of TU for years and was a chapter secretary and a director for probably 10 years. You're correct that TU has been a strong proponent of stream bank stabilization and shading. I was personally involved in several such projects on publicly accessible streams. The tree cutting being done on stream banks for several years has mainly been on private land for whatever reason. I've seen a number of such private locations where the banks were stripped of all trees, only to have the land wash out in high water conditions. Some of those were farmland and those farmers lost a HUGE amount of good topsoil - and acreage - to floods. Rural roads were also wiped out because previously tree-stabilized banks washed out easily and the roadways went right along with them. Millions in taxpayers' money to re-build those roads.

I have no idea what their reasoning was, but they lost a lot. Trees that are native to riparian zones are not typically hardwoods good for market purposes, so maybe they sold the trees for firewood. (?) Good farmland that bordered several streams was wiped out and is no longer tillable - topsoil gone and lots of stream gravel / rocks. Ironically, some of those previously productive acreages have become riparian tree-planting zones supervised by state and federal agencies to eliminate soil erosion and stream siltation. Had those private land owners left the original trees in place, they most likely wouldn't have lost so much soil and productive acreage, and government agencies wouldn't have become involved.

In the mountains here in Pa., heavy rains and snow runoff don't turn the streams muddy or wash out acres of ground because the trees hold the soil and stabilize the banks. Farmland & rural, cleared acreage where there are no trees, or very few trees along the banks of streams is where the majority of soil erosion occurs. Groups like TU can only advise private landowners on stream bank stabilization - they have no authority to force the issue. Your example of fencing a stream from cattle and diverting some flow into a watering hole outside the streamside riparian zone is a great way to manage the situation for cattlemen.

That is too bad. Where I grew up, all the streams and rivers were orange with mine drainage. As I grew older, I saw some of the rivers come back to life. I went to college in trout heaven. I could not drive 20 minutes in any direction without crossing one of the top trout streams in the east. Fly fishing was my most favorite pastime from the time I hit college until I left the state.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack - Where did you go to college??
 
Jack - Where did you go to college??
You can't figure it out from the description? Spring Creek, Spruce Creek, Penn's Creek, Little Juniata, Bald Eagle Creek... :emoji_grinning:
 
Interesting point Buckdeer1. Around Pa. I see more and more landowners cutting ALL the trees down on stream banks. And then articles & letters-to-the-editor crop up complaining about stream bank erosion and loss of soils. Makes me wonder if we've learned anything from past mistakes.

Interesting idea of trying roots or cuttings in milk jugs. That would be a boost if cuttings would root easier.

Seems odd. When I was in PA, TU had a big impact on stream remediation. Trout fishing was a big thing, especially with all the limestone streams. One of the factors, as I recall, was water temperature. Shading of stream banks was one of the things they were trying to restore.

Down here in VA, everything is warm water east of the Blue Ridge and even the mountain streams are freestone. I recently saw a cattle farm near my place change hands. When it did, they fenced off a small small stream that runs through it. They dug a small watering hole outside the fence, off to one side, and diverted a small amount of water into it for the cattle. The next time I drove by I saw lots of tree tubes staggered along the stream inside the fence. I presume it is some kind of USDA NRCS cost sharing program, but I'm glad to see projects like that. Cattle using small streams can really be problematic for water quality.

Thanks,

Jack

What does freestone mean?


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Bur - Freestone means a stream NOT beginning with a limestone source, such as a spring emanating from limestone bedrock. A limestone stream will typically have a better pH reading in it's waters - much better for insect life and thus better for fish - than a freestone stream. The streams Jack was referring to all source from underground, limestone bedrock areas. They are FULL of great bug life and BIG trout!!
 
Jack - I figured south-central Pa. - but which college or university?? Shippensburg, PSU, Susquehanna ??
 
I originally saw Chainsaws pic of the milk jugs in the apples apples thread and thought that was a very good idea too. It definitely could be used for a wide variety of projects.
 
Jack - I figured south-central Pa. - but which college or university?? Shippensburg, PSU, Susquehanna ??

Dead central PA. We are.... Penn State. :emoji_grinning:
 
What does freestone mean?


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Brownsbuck nailed it. Largely because of the pH difference, stream fertility is much higher. It is kind of like soils in deer management. The underlying fertility of the soil is the limiting factor for they deer herd, and the underlying fertility of the soil and water is a limiting factor for trout (there are other factors like temp and oxygenation). For fly fisherman, that fertility has a special place. The entomology of the stream is fantastic. Different kinds of mayflies are constantly hatching not to mention the other kinds of flies. I took a stream side entomology class at PSU.

Since the OP is participating in this tangent, I'll add short description of what it can be like. There is a very large Mayfly they call the Shadfly locally. It is very large with a brilliant white body and the long 3 part tail characteristic of mayflies. Penn's creek runs along an old railroad bed. When the mayfly hatch comes of the stream can look like it is boiling and fly fishermen pack the banks of the easy access points. It can be hard to find a spot to fish. The state acquired the railroad bed. They did not want vehicles on it, so they built railings on a trestle that crosses the creek. They are far enough apart that you can walk across the bridge, but not wide enough for a vehicle to cross...with one exception :emoji_grinning:.

I had a small motorcycle that I rigged up to carry my fly rod. I could not ride it across the trestle because it was too tight, but it just fit if I walked it across. So, I was able to ride a couple miles along the trestle to get away from other fly fishermen. I can remember a standing in the middle of the stream in waders in a pool that looked like it was boiling with fish rising. The moon light reflected off the pool and a cloud of shadflies surrounded me. I could hear clicking of my fly rod against the bodies of these beautiful large insects as I moved it back and forth through the cloud to cast. I can't remember how many trout I caught and released that night. Fish in the 18" to 20" class were the only keepers.

By contrast, the area I grew up in was mining country. Most of the sizable streams were orange with acid mine drainage and void of life. The only healthy streams were small freestone mountain streams. They had native brook trout in them and most were the size of your finger. If you caught a fish over 6", it was a trophy.

Ok, while I'm on a roll....

Another nearby stream was Spruce Creek. Most of it was private land. I could see the presidential helicopter when it would bring in President Carter to one of the private farms to fish. On another section of spruce creek, Penn State had a research project. They had observation towers along the stream. That research project is where the "seats in a restaurant" analogy which changed the way streams were stocked going forward. They observed and identified native fish in the stream and then stocked it and observed what happened. It turns out that one of the limiting factors for trout is a "seat at the table". There are spot in the stream where the energy spent swimming against the current is less than the energy derived from the food that floats by. Trout will actually fight for these positions and the fittest get the best seats in the restaurant. What happened when the stream was stocked is that the stocked fish naturally went to these locations. A native fish would easily fight it off, but soon another stocked fish would show up and the native fish would easily fight it off. The problem was that there were so many stocked fish suddenly showing up, that the native fish would eventually exhaust its energy and die. Stocked fish rarely overwintered and spawned, so stocking a stream with a native population was actually reducing the native populations of the stream. From this data, the state changed their stoking program. They identified streams near population centers as put-and-take streams. Outside those population centers, they analysed streams and those that had a self-sustaining native population were designated as such. They did not stock these and instituted special regulations to limit harvest to sustainable levels. It was great research.

Ok, nostalgia over. :emoji_hushed:

Thanks,

Jack
 
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