Might have apples this year

[Maya]

I'm not a fan of standard trees, I see no value in something that is not going to produce until 9-10 yo. B118 and m7 at 3-4 years or m111 at 4-6 is more valuable and more manageable in my eyes. So what, it's not as big? Plant a couple more! I don't have enough time to say all I'd like to about pruning them except to say prune to central leader, keep branches simplified while still promoting good 2-5 yo side branches (no complex branches, no forks) , and keep tops thin. I do the same with any central leader tree. With standard it is obviously harder.

 

[Rally1148]

I'm not a fan of standard trees, I see no value in something that is not going to produce until 9-10 yo. B118 and m7 at 3-4 years or m111 at 4-6 is more valuable and more manageable in my eyes. So what, it's not as big? Plant a couple more! I don't have enough time to say all I'd like to about pruning them except to say prune to central leader, keep branches simplified while still promoting good 2-5 yo side branches (no complex branches, no forks) , and keep tops thin. I do the same with any central leader tree. With standard it is obviously harder.

Well shoot. Will an M7 sized tree be able to produce a fair amount of apples for deer? I'm just debating whether or not I should scrap the trees in the ground and get some B118's in their place. I'd get them in next year, and leave all of the trees for a year or two, and then remove the M7s.

 

[Rally1148]

Simply because a tree is on M7 is not a reason to remove it IMHO. If it is healthy and a variety you want...why remove it?

Limited space. I might not be able to add any more trees. Also, the trees were just planted last year, so I won't be setting myself back too much. I guess I'm just trying/worrying about the long term and doing this the right way the first time. At 23, I've got more time than I will at any other time in the next 10 years!

 

[Rally1148]

If you're worried about the future, have plenty of time, are looking for the maximum yield and lifespan of apple trees...then you should be planting on antonovka rootstock. Your grandchildren may be picking fruit off trees on antonovka....not much chance of that happening on any other rootstock.

Personally, I'd leave the trees on M7...but I'm more than twice your age

I think I'll leave them, as long as I'll be able to get them unfenced. If they're fenced, the deer can't get the apples! If I get the 100 feet between my property and the next, I'll have PLENTY of room to add another 50 trees! Fingers crossed that this will happen within the next few years!

 

[Rally1148]

This tree was planted by my grandpa over 50 years ago. It is one of the only trees that didn't get fireblight in our orchard (we also had bartlet pears there... so that didn't help). Last weekend I cut off 2 big limbs that were coming out at almost 90°. I know it's not the best time, but I didn't want the trunk to completely split. This tree puts out more apples than we can use, and has been pretty much neglected. Not until recently did it start to receive pruning, and I still haven't topped it off yet. The base is wider than my shoulders, it's crazy.

 

[Rally1148]

How big are your apple cages? If they're 5' or under, trees on M7 will certainly get wider than that and will drop fruit outside the cages. On my old place I had some trees on M7 and removed the cages completely in year 6 or 7. Trees on M7 should get to 12-15' tall and around that wide....they aren't tiny like a tree on B9 or M27

They're 5 foot tall. So based on what you say, I should be able to trim the branches high enough so that I can take the cages off.

 

[Rally1148]

For trees on M7 I had my first set of limbs around 48". Some of the limbs were pushing through the cages when I removed them...no big deal. Chances are that those lower limbs will get browsed pretty heavily anyway.

So then would you advise starting the limbs higher than that? Maybe around 60 inches? Or would that be too high?

 

[Rally1148]

I'll take note!

 

[Maya]

Well shoot. Will an M7 sized tree be able to produce a fair amount of apples for deer? I'm just debating whether or not I should scrap the trees in the ground and get some B118's in their place. I'd get them in next year, and leave all of the trees for a year or two, and then remove the M7s.

Not sure what you are trying to say. I simple said that m7 will produce apples in 3-4 years, which in my book is a good thing. They should spit out 3-5 bu or so depending on variety and year. They are on the small side for deer apples, but I've got some really nice Honeycrisp on them and like the rootstock. My point was years required until they start fruiting which is why I pointed out the 3 semi's compared to standard. Actually if planted and trained right, smaller trees can put out more apples per acre.

 

[Rally1148]

I just meant that I didn't know if they put out the quantity for deer. I'm not too worried in the amount of time they produce, as I found 3 old trees on my property that should be producing a lot more this year. I just really didn't know if M7's worked for deer at all. I have really limited first hand experience with this stuff, although thanks to you all I'm learning a lot! My next trees will be B118, just because of the quantity and size.

Not sure what you are trying to say. I simple said that m7 will produce apples in 3-4 years, which in my book is a good thing. They should spit out 3-5 bu or so depending on variety and year. They are on the small side for deer apples, but I've got some really nice Honeycrisp on them and like the rootstock. My point was years required until they start fruiting which is why I pointed out the 3 semi's compared to standard. Actually if planted and trained right, smaller trees put out more apples per acre.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

M7 is very good for deer also and G30 even more awesome but need support

 

[j-bird]

I figure once my trees reach a size where the deer won't browse them to death I will change my cages. Right now I protect up to like 6'. Once the trees are big enough I will simply cage just the trunk to protect against rubbing and then the deer can browse the lower like as the main portion of the tree will be beyond their reach. I figure my first permanent scaffold will be at 4 or 5' off the ground. As much as we talk details about trees I guess I took a pretty low tech approach - they are just for deer. So anything I get is a plus and I too have limited space. Soft mast is simply a niche I am trying to support - the deer will be just fine if my trees never produce an apple - I just like the sense of satisfaction. No need to make it rocket surgery!

 

[deepsleep]

This is an M7 entering growing season #5. We have left the lowest scaffolds at 5' and there is still plenty of leader above for 3 sets of scaffolds. We took our 5'welded wire cages and downsized them to be rub protectors. This tree is loaded with fruit buds, so barring a late frost, I expect to see plenty of fruit. So far, I can not tell much difference between M7 and M111, although I'm sure the M7 will slow way down on growth soon and the M111 will keep going. Fruiting precocity has been similar between the two. On my soil, I have noticed B118 may grow a touch faster, but so far isn't fruiting any faster. I think with any rootstock, you will not get enough fruit to draw in much wildlife until year 6-8 or so. It is nice, however, to see an apple or 3 in year 3-4, if you've never grown fruit before. My semi-standard/semi-dwarf trees are mostly in my yard. I have some antonovka and seedling crabs planted around the property on fencerows and food plots. The seedlings will be grafted over to DR larger apples over time. One thing to keep in mind, the semi-dwarfs are easier to manage if you are using them for human apples around the house/yard.

 

[Rally1148]

I figure once my trees reach a size where the deer won't browse them to death I will change my cages. Right now I protect up to like 6'. Once the trees are big enough I will simply cage just the trunk to protect against rubbing and then the deer can browse the lower like as the main portion of the tree will be beyond their reach. I figure my first permanent scaffold will be at 4 or 5' off the ground. As much as we talk details about trees I guess I took a pretty low tech approach - they are just for deer. So anything I get is a plus and I too have limited space. Soft mast is simply a niche I am trying to support - the deer will be just fine if my trees never produce an apple - I just like the sense of satisfaction. No need to make it rocket surgery!

Should I be staking these at this point, or can I wait until they get more weight on the top?

 

[j-bird]

Should I be staking these at this point, or can I wait until they get more weight on the top?

Are you taking about supporting the tree for stability in the soil? I so - I haven't yet. Mine are still pretty weak up top so the threat of being uprooted is low in my opinion. This may however be one of my "worst apple grower ever" moments as well. So far the ONLY time I have had an issue with stability was when voles had eaten off the supporting roots of a young tree and thus killed it. I would suspect that proper thinning and the like of the tree would promote a good root system while reducing the surface area of the tree to reduce the chances of up-rooting. I could be wrong - I would have to defer to Ed or Maya on the subject.

I may be WAY off here - I figured if I prune off the whip like limbs that this does many positive things. First of all it allows the tree to spend its energy on other things like root development, central leader growth and caliper growth. It also then reduces all these limbs and surface area thus reducing the load on the top of the tree.

Like I have said before - I am a terrible apple person so - stick with the advice of Ed and Maya!

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Staking helps support the tree with fruit load so if you are going to have fruit swaying in the winds it would be a good time to stake

 

[deepsleep]

Should I be staking these at this point, or can I wait until they get more weight on the top?

Stake your M7s. It is pretty cheap to do so, helps with training, and it is easier to prevent leaning than correct it. When you train them for deer like I have, they look like a lollypop, and the top really pulls hard in the wind like a sail. If they are in a more protected setting, you may be okay until they fruit. To me, it is cheap insurance.

 

[Rally1148]

It looks like I'll be staking them this summer! No apples yet, but I may as well do it now!
What type of stakes do you all recommend?

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Use 7 or 8 ft t posts like they use for fences.

 

[Rally1148]

It seems like I'll be on the lookout for some staking materials!