Low pH, Low Organic Matter.

[RGrizzzz]

++Save your money until you lime

 

[swat1018]

If your clover is a good stand and ankle high, I'd probably retest the soil. I find it hard to believe you'd have a good stand if that original test is correct.

 

[pilotpip]

If your clover is a good stand and ankle high, I'd probably retest the soil. I find it hard to believe you'd have a good stand if that original test is correct.

It was when we looked at the property in early January it was clearly browsed but I'd say it was up to the laces on my boots. Once the snows hit it was gone (North Central Missouri).

I'm heading up there tomorrow for a few days of "work" and relaxation with the kids on spring break. By work I mean getting my camper set up and learning how to use this Kubota I just bought to spread some gravel. One of the things on my agenda is to get a sample for my upper field. I may just get a second one on this one while I'm at it. Another point on the agenda is to get some pictures for a "land tour"

I appreciate the inputs. I'm a city dweller and this is purely fun for me. Buckwheat was part of the plan because my daughter loves pollinators (save the bees and whatnot) and I've never planted it before.

 

[Telemark]

I may just get a second one on this one while I'm at it.

Make sure you follow the directions when collecting the soil

my daughter loves pollinators (save the bees and whatnot)

When I get my native forb blend put.together, I can send you a little bit for a flower patch for her. In the mean time, you could try perennials like Jerusalem artichoke, oldfield aster, and coneflower, which are good for deer and bees.

There's a good overall benefit to having a permanent stand of wildflowers on your property. You can also buy Mason bees and leaf cutter bees, but make sure not to put them too close to your house or shed. I have put out both types anywhere I have fruit trees or food plots.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

It was when we looked at the property in early January it was clearly browsed but I'd say it was up to the laces on my boots. Once the snows hit it was gone (North Central Missouri).

I'm heading up there tomorrow for a few days of "work" and relaxation with the kids on spring break. By work I mean getting my camper set up and learning how to use this Kubota I just bought to spread some gravel. One of the things on my agenda is to get a sample for my upper field. I may just get a second one on this one while I'm at it. Another point on the agenda is to get some pictures for a "land tour"

I appreciate the inputs. I'm a city dweller and this is purely fun for me. Buckwheat was part of the plan because my daughter loves pollinators (save the bees and whatnot) and I've never planted it before.

Old time farmers would plant buckwheat on newly turned-over ground that were fallow fields prior to tillage. Our camp planted it when we first tried to plant anything on old fallow fields, and it grew without fuss on poor soil. Buckwheat needs warm soil to germinate, so we planted ours mid-May after frost left the soil & temps were warmer. We usually plant some every year. Deer eat it, bees love it, it helps keep weeds down, and it builds the soil with added OM.

Grain rye is also a great thing to plant. It grows in less-than-ideal soil, sends a deep root system, and adds OM, too.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Make sure you follow the directions when collecting the soil



When I get my native forb blend put.together, I can send you a little bit for a flower patch for her. In the mean time, you could try perennials like Jerusalem artichoke, oldfield aster, and coneflower, which are good for deer and bees.

There's a good overall benefit to having a permanent stand of wildflowers on your property. You can also buy Mason bees and leaf cutter bees, but make sure not to put them too close to your house or shed. I have put out both types anywhere I have fruit trees or food plots.

Curious about your comment about not putting mason bees near your house. My wife and I have had mason bees in our firewood piles for several years with no problems. No damage to the house, and they're pretty docile bees. I've had my head right inside the wood shelter, with bees hitting me in the head/landing on me ...... with no stings. Web sites about solitary bees (like mason & leaf-cutters) say, since they aren't defending a nest with a queen, they don't typically sting. My wife isn't even afraid of them.

What is your cautionary comment about? Not picking ..... just curious. I'm always open to learning new things!

 

[Telemark]

Curious about your comment about not putting mason bees near your house. My wife and I have had mason bees in our firewood piles for several years with no problems. No damage to the house, and they're pretty docile bees. I've had my head right inside the wood shelter, with bees hitting me in the head/landing on me ...... with no stings. Web sites about solitary bees (like mason & leaf-cutters) say, since they aren't defending a nest with a queen, they don't typically sting. My wife isn't even afraid of them.

What is your cautionary comment about? Not picking ..... just curious. I'm always open to learning new things!

The bees aren't harmful to people, but their habit of filling holes with dirt and larvae can be irritating. I've had them fill screw holes in electronics, for example. I went to take the top off a trolling motor, and for the life of me I could not get the last screw out. Turns out the mason bees had put dirt and babies in the hole, which gummed up the head of the screw.

I have also stuck my face right up to their "house" and not been stung. No problem with the insects themselves. Like I said, I put them in every orchard and food plot I create. I just find their breeding behavior can be annoying if they are released too close to a garage, barn, house, etc., where they might deposit unwanted material where it's not welcome.

 

[Northwoods Whitetails]

Plant spring soil builders (multi species) and plenty of lime asap.
Fall plots would be grains with buckwheat. Witn ph that low, consider liquid fertilizers. Spray directly on to growing plants instead of granular on the ground.

 

[FarmerDan]

Got results for my first soil sample on a clover plot that was planted by the previous owner. I don't know a ton of history regarding the property (yet) but based on OnX and other satellite views, I'd guess this 2 acre plot was cleared out of an Oak flat within the last 3 years or less because it's still woods in the pics. pH is 4.4 and organic matter in the soil is low too. Phosphorus and Potassium are also very low. Within the "neighborhood, this is a stand of hardwoods in a mostly agricultural region. However, A large conservation area with heavy pressure is across the road and the closest crops are about a mile away.

My initial plan for this year is to put down a couple gallons of deergro's Plotstart product and an application of 3-18-18 fertilizer as a temporary boost while I learn the property, and get a couple other projects done to make it easier to spend time there. I realize I need to add several thousand pounds of ag lime eventually, but since the plot is established and clover is growing seemingly ok. I frost seeded about a month ago. I'll focus on that one next winter with a big addition of lime, either ag if I can get it there or Pelletized if I can't.

While I'm letting that plot "go", I have what I'd guess to be another 2-3 acres that the previous owner cleared right by the road. I need to accomplish 2 things here: First, and foremost: screen. Second, It's open and I'd like to plant something attractive to deer, turkey, and other wildlife in it. It's pretty empty dirt at the moment so I broadcast cereal rye into the open areas, with a mix of crimson clover. Along the edges I seeded the same mix of ladino and perennial red that I got from the co-op. I'm going to get a sample together next week, but for now let's assume pH is low because it's a similar situation. Recently cleared timber with low OM. I'm starting at zero.

Should I try to get some Ag (or pell) lime down, then disc or rototill to work it in, and plant something like buckwheat and more cereal rye to build OM? Personally, I'm leaning towards a disc because we have a nice walk behind rototiller I can use on a couple staging plots later. Also, my long term goal is to go no-till with minimum inputs but that's probably a tractor upgrade and several years down the road.

Umm, advanced apologies. Sometimes I cant help myself. You reference the previous owner. So, that makes you the new owner? What is it, the overall dream, for this 2-3 acres piece of land now clover that not too long ago might have been oak trees? I would guess it was oak trees and not cropland for a reason. See soil test results. This is all a value judgment and all I have is your narrative. My guess is you are going to spend a lot of money to convert it to your desired land use - and I doubt it's going to happen. On the Internet go to the Web Soil Survey find you place and let me know soil type. I think I know where you want to go, but letting this property revert to its natural form might could do you better, cheaper and quicker? Food. Water. And a place to hide?

 

[pilotpip]

Umm, advanced apologies. Sometimes I cant help myself. You reference the previous owner. So, that makes you the new owner? What is it, the overall dream, for this 2-3 acres piece of land now clover that not too long ago might have been oak trees? I would guess it was oak trees and not cropland for a reason. See soil test results. This is all a value judgment and all I have is your narrative. My guess is you are going to spend a lot of money to convert it to your desired land use - and I doubt it's going to happen. On the Internet go to the Web Soil Survey find you place and let me know soil type. I think I know where you want to go, but letting this property revert to its natural form might could do you better, cheaper and quicker? Food. Water. And a place to hide?

No apologies needed. This is why I asked. My father in law closed on the property in January. Previous owner cleared bottom land adjacent to a year around creek and planted clover. It's growing, but stunted. In another area he cleared what I believe may have been a pasture 30-40 years ago. There is a 1.5ac pond, and the mentioned creek. Lots of water available. I've walked probably 70 of the 85 acres. Outside of what I think was pasture, there is some very thick timber with a nice mix of oak and hickory stands. Good sign throughout and I've found several mature sheds. Terrain wise, it reminds me of Ozark hardwoods, but not as steep and 30 miles from the Iowa border.

This parcel is pretty hilly. The majority of the farms in the immediate area are cattle. However there are ag fields anywhere the ground is fairly flat.

I've abandoned the plotstart idea. I could buy quite a bit of pelletized lime for the amount that stuff costs and get a start while I figure out how to get ag lime applied. After reading everyone's replies on this thread including yours, I'm going to sit and think on it a little.

I just went to the site you listed. The bottom plot with the clover that is fairly well established is Dockery and Tice Silt Loam. The upper 2 acres is Winnegan Loam. In reading this survey what should I look for and what can I take away from it? I frost seeded the bottom with ladino and red clover a few weeks back, and have spread and cultipacked 250lbs total of cereal rye on the top because there was tons of bare earth. The seed I spread a couple weeks ago has been germinating well and the deer and turkeys are hammering it, as well as the remaining red acorns that are on the ground.

My initial thought process is that I have the water. I have solid cover and places to hide. In good mast crop years, I'm going to have the food. Nobody including the neighbor is happy about how the previous owner went nuts with the dozer. We lost quite a bit of privacy and there is a heavily pressured conservation area across the road. Let the deer know they have a place with all 3 right across the road when the public land hunters are hammering away across the road, let the fence line grow up so said hunters can't see what will eventually become a cabin site, and provide some alternatives for the critters that aren't acorns and hickory nuts.

 

[swat1018]

No apologies needed. This is why I asked. My father in law closed on the property in January. Previous owner cleared bottom land adjacent to a year around creek and planted clover. It's growing, but stunted. In another area he cleared what I believe may have been a pasture 30-40 years ago. There is a 1.5ac pond, and the mentioned creek. Lots of water available. I've walked probably 70 of the 85 acres. Outside of what I think was pasture, there is some very thick timber with a nice mix of oak and hickory stands. Good sign throughout and I've found several mature sheds. Terrain wise, it reminds me of Ozark hardwoods, but not as steep and 30 miles from the Iowa border.

This parcel is pretty hilly. The majority of the farms in the immediate area are cattle. However there are ag fields anywhere the ground is fairly flat.

I've abandoned the plotstart idea. I could buy quite a bit of pelletized lime for the amount that stuff costs and get a start while I figure out how to get ag lime applied. After reading everyone's replies on this thread including yours, I'm going to sit and think on it a little.

I just went to the site you listed. The bottom plot with the clover that is fairly well established is Dockery and Tice Silt Loam. The upper 2 acres is Winnegan Loam. In reading this survey what should I look for and what can I take away from it? I frost seeded the bottom with ladino and red clover a few weeks back, and have spread and cultipacked 250lbs total of cereal rye on the top because there was tons of bare earth. The seed I spread a couple weeks ago has been germinating well and the deer and turkeys are hammering it, as well as the remaining red acorns that are on the ground.

My initial thought process is that I have the water. I have solid cover and places to hide. In good mast crop years, I'm going to have the food. Nobody including the neighbor is happy about how the previous owner went nuts with the dozer. We lost quite a bit of privacy and there is a heavily pressured conservation area across the road. Let the deer know they have a place with all 3 right across the road when the public land hunters are hammering away across the road, let the fence line grow up so said hunters can't see what will eventually become a cabin site, and provide some alternatives for the critters that aren't acorns and hickory nuts.

What County? I'm in Lewis and Knox.

 

[bigboreblr]

Thanks everyone. Gives me some stuff to think about. Even if I can't get ag lime in there right now I have the means to get some pelletized down there and broadcast it.

Cheapest by the bag for me in NY is tractor supply Waukesha barn lime 4.99 for 50lbs vs 6-7 bucks for 50lb pelletized. Was 3-3.5 a bag not too long ago. I use a drop spreader.

I messed up my post. I use like 80-100 lbs and acre of fertilizer at my sandy low pH camp.

 

[pilotpip]

What County? I'm in Lewis and Knox.

Adair. I used to hunt Scotland. North of 70 really is a different world.

 

[somich]

Another thing you might consider is horse manure and compost. In Norway, I can get horse manure free by the trailer load. In Ohio, I found a place that charges $40 per pickup truck load, and the guy will load it into the bed with his backhoe.

In Ohio and Indiana, compost ranges between free, for seasoned straw and horse manure mucked out from stalls, to under $100 for a pickup truck load of fine compost.

All of this I found on Facebook marketplace. You could probably just drive up and down your plot pitching compost and manure into your field. It's a cheap, easy, and quick way to get a great soil amendment onto the soil. It contains all kinds of microorganisms, bugs, and probably worms that will contribute to your overall soil health.

The horse manure I picked up had minimal straw and was aged enough that there was no odor, but still visible strands of grass. It's easy to work with and incredibly good for the soil. I once left a pile sitting by the driveway on very poor soil, and the next year, the plants grew incredibly tall and lush where the pile had been.

I use the horse manure to layer in my vegetable beds, and it just disappears in there, but the soil I dug out of a bed this Spring was black and crumbly, and full of worms. I can't say enough good things about manure. If you can manage to get a few truckloads on your field before you disc the lime in, it should do wonders to jump start the growth of whatever you plant and the overall health of the soil.

Almost all the manure I get from amish in Michigan has lots of weed seeds. I quit using the manure because we have pretty good soil.

With no OM and low ph pile in the manure and then kill the weeds. My best soil builder is rye in winter and I can get a double crop of buckwheat in the summer. Then more rye.

 

[SD51555]

Cheapest by the bag for me in NY is tractor supply Waukesha barn lime 4.99 for 50lbs vs 6-7 bucks for 50lb pelletized. Was 3-3.5 a bag not too long ago. I use a drop spreader.

I messed up my post. I use like 80-100 lbs and acre of fertilizer at my sandy low pH camp.

Beware, Waukesha lime is dolomitic. It’s not bad, but it’s gonna boost magnesium and tighten soil. Good for sand, bad for clay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[matinc]

SD so dolomite lime is better for sandy soil? Curious how it tightens the soil?