Love my seedling persimmons

[Native Hunter]

I'm not sure if my trees identify as male or female. I'm going to get little nametags for all of them so I can get the pronouns correct from year to year.

Look back at Post #41 and Post #56 in this thread for some pictures of male and female flowers. If you need help with the pronouns, the Vice President of the United States can help....

 

[WeedyJ]

Look back at Post #41 and Post #56 in this thread for some pictures of male and female flowers. If you need help with the pronouns, the Vice President of the United States can help....

Checked those out! Thank you.

 

[omicron1792]

For anyone who needs to see the difference between male and female flowers, look back at post #41.

Native. What a benefit you are to this board.

I need some teaching about persimmons, and any fruit tree for that matter. Please explain it like I am a five year old!!

I bought my farm 4 years ago, was old family property of my wife’s family…long story for another day. My property is an hour from my house so I have to rely on other people some, which doesn’t work out all the time. I was not happy with the loggers which took 3 years to finish. I have been reclaiming and restoring the land for last year and a half. 300 acres.

I have planted some Dunston chestnuts and deer magnet/candy persimmon. But while I’m clearing timber and such I have found a ton of persimmon shoots coming up. What is the best way to manage these native/American persimmon root shoots?

I know nothing of grafting or this top working you speak of.

Most of the shoots at 2-4’ tall, but some are 8-10 feet tall. You can see one of them sticking up in this pic.

Thanks I’m advance. Yoder I would like your input too.

 

[yoderjac]

I like to wait until they are about 1" in diameter and then bark graft. Here is a thread with my experience bark grafting them: https://habitat-talk.com/threads/sex-change-operation-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5547/

 

[Native Hunter]

Native. What a benefit you are to this board.

I need some teaching about persimmons, and any fruit tree for that matter. Please explain it like I am a five year old!!

I bought my farm 4 years ago, was old family property of my wife’s family…long story for another day. My property is an hour from my house so I have to rely on other people some, which doesn’t work out all the time. I was not happy with the loggers which took 3 years to finish. I have been reclaiming and restoring the land for last year and a half. 300 acres.

I have planted some Dunston chestnuts and deer magnet/candy persimmon. But while I’m clearing timber and such I have found a ton of persimmon shoots coming up. What is the best way to manage these native/American persimmon root shoots?

I know nothing of grafting or this top working you speak of.

Most of the shoots at 2-4’ tall, but some are 8-10 feet tall. You can see one of them sticking up in this pic.

Thanks I’m advance. Yoder I would like your input too. View attachment 45019

I would just put cages on the ones in places where I wanted persimmons. Let them start maturing and bark graft them when they are 1-2 inches in diameter. Keep other trees from shading and competing with them.

You could also leave some and not graft them early - just to see if they are already females. If you like those, then just let them grow. If not, you can topwork them later. Persimmons require almost no care other than what I just mentioned. Good luck.

 

[omicron1792]

I would just put cages on the ones in places where I wanted persimmons. Let them start maturing and bark graft them when they are 1-2 inches in diameter. Keep other trees from shading and competing with them.

You could also leave some and not graft them early - just to see if they are already females. If you like those, then just let them grow. If not, you can topwork them later. Persimmons require almost no care other than what I just mentioned. Good luck.

What does top work mean?

 

[Native Hunter]

What does top work mean?

Cut the top out of the tree and graft in the desired scion wood that you want growing in its place. In a couple of years you can barely see where the cut was made.

 

[yoderjac]

What does top work mean?

Examples on the link I provided.

 

[omicron1792]

Examples on the link I provided.

Thanks Jack. I started to read that, but haven’t had time to finish it yet.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks Jack. I started to read that, but haven’t had time to finish it yet.

Top work is a general term for grafting an established tree. I find specifically bark grafting is the easiest type of graft for this purpose on persimmons in that 1"-3" diameter class. IT is possible to do this with even larger trees, but success goes down in the long run. I've done it with trees as large as 5" but most want to send up new shoots from the root system.

 

[omicron1792]

Top work is a general term for grafting an established tree. I find specifically bark grafting is the easiest type of graft for this purpose on persimmons in that 1"-3" diameter class. IT is possible to do this with even larger trees, but success goes down in the long run. I've done it with trees as large as 5" but most want to send up new shoots from the root system.

Thanks Yoder.

So bushhogging my trails yesterday I found hundreds of small persimmon. They must be an early successional plant here and coming up from where large persimmons wee cut.

Any advice on which ones to cage? I guess I just let them grow, next spring see which ones are female based on flowers, than bark graft most males do females when shoots are 1-3”?

 

[omicron1792]

Thanks Yoder.

So bushhogging my trails yesterday I found hundreds of small persimmon. They must be an early successional plant here and coming up from where large persimmons wee cut.

Any advice on which ones to cage? I guess I just let them grow, next spring see which ones are female based on flowers, than bark graft most males do females when shoots are 1-3”?

Top work is a general term for grafting an established tree. I find specifically bark grafting is the easiest type of graft for this purpose on persimmons in that 1"-3" diameter class. IT is possible to do this with even larger trees, but success goes down in the long run. I've done it with trees as large as 5" but most want to send up new shoots from the root system.

Also saw a good bit of black gum. I will go nuclear on sweet gum this winter, as well as continued burns, but what are your thoughts on black gum wildlife value?

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks Yoder.

So bushhogging my trails yesterday I found hundreds of small persimmon. They must be an early successional plant here and coming up from where large persimmons wee cut.

Any advice on which ones to cage? I guess I just let them grow, next spring see which ones are female based on flowers, than bark graft most males do females when shoots are 1-3”?

My native persimmons have usually have not flowered by the time I graft them. I don't really care about the original sex. If I graft, I can get my first persimmons by the 3rd leaf and, on occasion, sooner. My native females take a lot longer to produce persimmons than those I graft.

I don't cage mine. Deer seem to ignore them here. If you have one in a spot, just where you want it and don't to take a chance, you might want to cage it.

 

[omicron1792]

My native persimmons have usually have not flowered by the time I graft them. I don't really care about the original sex. If I graft, I can get my first persimmons by the 3rd leaf and, on occasion, sooner. My native females take a lot longer to produce persimmons than those I graft.

I don't cage mine. Deer seem to ignore them here. If you have one in a spot, just where you want it and don't to take a chance, you might want to cage it.

I haven’t found any yet full of fruit, so where would I get the female scion from? You could mail me some of yours.

 

[yoderjac]

I haven’t found any yet full of fruit, so where would I get the female scion from? You could mail me some of yours.

Scions need to be collected when dormant. If you remind me next spring before green-up, I'll be glad to collect and send you some. If you want named varieties, England's Orchard has a lot of varieties. You can also check this board at the appropriate time, there is often a scion exchange.

 

[WeedyJ]

Also saw a good bit of black gum. I will go nuclear on sweet gum this winter, as well as continued burns, but what are your thoughts on black gum wildlife value?

I was told Black Gum is a great tree to mineral stump. Could hinge as well.

 

[yoderjac]

I was told Black Gum is a great tree to mineral stump. Could hinge as well.

It is a good overall wildlife tree as well.

 

[Angus 1895]

Bill, I agree about the volunteers. They grow 5 times faster than transplanted trees due to the taproot.

If you have volunteer trees, it is best to focus on those the most. Open up around them and give them room to grow - then do topworking as necessary. Some will already be females, and you will want to leave many of those. But, you could even topwork some of those to a cultivar you desired if you wanted to do that.

I started topworking some of mine 2 years ago and have had very high success rates with the grafts taking. Between the volunteers, the ones I have set, and the ones that I have topworked - in a few years we will have solid persimmon fruit drop from Mid August into January or even February the next year. All that with very little effort. Really we already have that, but the volume will be greater as time goes on.

I also love my chestnuts, apples, crabapples and pears, but persimmons are more reliable and tougher in my particular area of the country.

Thanks

Can you recommend where to get some trees that will grow in area 5 B?

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks

Can you recommend where to get some trees that will grow in area 5 B?

I would recommend talking to Ryan at Blue Hill Nursery. He is more knowledgeable on persimmons in the north. I’m in 6B, and any persimmon will grow here.

 

[chickenlittle]

http://www.twisted-tree.net/trees/persimmon.

Here is a nursery in NY’s southern tier that sells persimmon seedlings from locally collected seeds. I’ve not bought from him but I’d think these are a decent choice for cold hardy seedlings.