Without a doubt, acres intensively managed makes a big difference also. When I first bought my place and had a one acre food plot, I never used chemicals. I liked to get out on my tractor. Now that I plant maybe 60 or 70 acres, chemical use greatly reduces equipment time and man hours. Spray at 20’ a pass compared to 7 ft with disk or bush hog. Three passes with equipment compared to one pass with sprayer.
Land/Wildlife Management Without Chemicals?
- Thread starter SwampCat
- Start date
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Very good point Swamp. One man show you have to use process that allows more to get done in same limited time. Same reason I like to use a tractor vs. a hand tool.
I'm a small time plotter and always will be working limited areas because 10-20 acres of plots would cost me $10s of thousands of dollars in upfront costs. Bring the 40,000 - 50,000 lb equipment in and leave your Tonka toys at home. I got rocks. Well boulders really. A few big enough to crush that 40,000 - 50,000 machine if dropped from above. Those glaciers moved some real "pebbles"
I'm a small time plotter and always will be working limited areas because 10-20 acres of plots would cost me $10s of thousands of dollars in upfront costs. Bring the 40,000 - 50,000 lb equipment in and leave your Tonka toys at home. I got rocks. Well boulders really. A few big enough to crush that 40,000 - 50,000 machine if dropped from above. Those glaciers moved some real "pebbles"
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Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
Exactly what I am trying to do here in Wisconsin
Absolutely hate the chemicals. Laugh at all the people talking about the "clean" venison they're eating whole.sprayimg their food plots with every chemical known to.man
I feel it's foolish to believe you must use chemicals to grow anything. 100s of years farmers grew things just fine without, no reason to believe we can't now.
I have an acre of garden ans 2 to 3 acres of pumpkins along with food plots. Not a drop in 6.years or so. A lot of work, a lot of trial and error but it can be done.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
What's wrong with box elder? If your truly managing for wildlife can't beat it. Food, cover, shade. Everything loves it
SD51555
5 year old buck +
I got stuck with a 300’ roll of landscape fabric that I didn’t understand had a fiber backing on it. It sucks, but I’m gonna use it up. I’m pondering laying down some strips when the snow flies to block the growth until after frost passes to put in some pumpkins next season.
I don’t know if I’ll have time to finish the idea next June, but I’d like to try.
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Badgers80
5 year old buck +
There’s data that shows when farm animals are fed exclusively feed that has been sprayed with gly, there are trace amounts of gly in the animal’s meat. The chemicals don’t bioaccumulate in the animals and it’s excreted within a couple of days max. Meat from the store is scientifically worse for you than venison with all the antibiotics they pump into it. A slice of bread has more gly in it than 1lb of venison. Don’t let your opinion on chemicals bias you on how “clean” venison is.
I think “a lot of work” is the key. I could probably mow my clover plots every two months from May through Oct and get away with no herbicide on deer plots. I am not so sure about things like millet and sunflowers for doves. And for sure I could not plant most of the waterfowl impoundments - herbicide, pesticide, and spreading seed all done with a drone.
Do you northern folks get Army Worms - and if so, how would you treat them without chemicals. Also, I have never produced a single edible fruit on fifty fruit trees without an active spraying program. I think folks in the south deal with different challenges than folks in the north.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Being somewhat familiar with the beef industry most all are vaccinated, but they are only given antibiotics if sick. Meds are expensive and only used when absolutely needed. There is mineral that has antibiotics in it, but a vet has to sign off on your herd needing it.
I also think gly is overstated. Most farmers now have shifted to other chemicals for weed control. Chemicals that are much less studied and likely harsher than gly. Soybeans being a huge feed source is somewhat spooky as technology to keep it weed free is progressing rapidly. I worry about anything that doesn't have long term (10-20yr) studies from multiple sources on it.
I also think gly is overstated. Most farmers now have shifted to other chemicals for weed control. Chemicals that are much less studied and likely harsher than gly. Soybeans being a huge feed source is somewhat spooky as technology to keep it weed free is progressing rapidly. I worry about anything that doesn't have long term (10-20yr) studies from multiple sources on it.
Badgers80
5 year old buck +
Good point on the antibiotics.
Gly, atrazine, 2,4D. They all are excreted or metabolized through the deer quickly (the chemical isn’t being stored in the deer’s muscle or fat). Chemicals like DDT back in the day are what persisted in animals’ bodies and was not able to be excreted or metabolized. What I mentioned are all water soluble chemicals, meaning they dissolve in blood and can be filtered by the kidneys and out in urine/feces. Fat soluble (DDT) stick to fat or muscle in the body.
Gly, atrazine, 2,4D. They all are excreted or metabolized through the deer quickly (the chemical isn’t being stored in the deer’s muscle or fat). Chemicals like DDT back in the day are what persisted in animals’ bodies and was not able to be excreted or metabolized. What I mentioned are all water soluble chemicals, meaning they dissolve in blood and can be filtered by the kidneys and out in urine/feces. Fat soluble (DDT) stick to fat or muscle in the body.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
I don't really believe anything when it comes to the " experts studies". It's funny how the findings almost always align with whoever is paying them...it's not an opinion. Do you have a link to any studies?
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Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
It is a ton of work, but I will say the only real problem I have is wild grape. I have that every where. I cut and burn trailer loads every summer. If anyone has a natural way to get rid of it that would be awesome. Hand weeding the gardens is a pia but worth it in the end. Been trying different mulching methods but haven't found one I like yet.
Fields, I work just before planting, then mow where I can a couple times in the summer (this works for pumpkins early on) once everything starts going it kind of shades out the weeds. Still working on a better method, as the weeds kind of take over. I try to mow before that seed out and that helps ,but it's not ideal.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
I'm burning through triclopyr as we speak to treat buckthorn on one of my properties. Trying to give my timber a hard reset from the decades of non-management of the previous owner.
I want to leave my tiny slice of this world in better shape than when I got there and chemicals are the only way to achieve those goals, IMO.
I want to leave my tiny slice of this world in better shape than when I got there and chemicals are the only way to achieve those goals, IMO.
Westwind
5 year old buck +
Also if you watch the farm shows on the weekend row vegetable farmers are using cameras on big weeding units that use AI to id weeds as they run over the field and zap weeds with flame weeders.
Saw a big ag drone in the back of a pickup truck yesterday. Thing was big. Bet its not long before they incorporate AI on those to where they can spot spray your field to vastly reduce amount of herbicide we are using.
Research is expensive. It won’t work at first. But they will figure it out.
Saw a big ag drone in the back of a pickup truck yesterday. Thing was big. Bet its not long before they incorporate AI on those to where they can spot spray your field to vastly reduce amount of herbicide we are using.
Research is expensive. It won’t work at first. But they will figure it out.
Belo
5 year old buck +
Depends on how you're applying too. A boom to the ground is pretty low risk once or twice a year. A wand is where I'd be a little more diligent.
Belo
5 year old buck +
Respectfully, the farmer growing the soy or corn is the one using the chemicals. I don't know about you, but 20 gallons of roundup to kill the grass and then some fert in the ground is all I do with my 2 acres of plots. They grow, they will never make the cover of a magazine, but the deer eat em. Never a drop of chemical ON the plot. That's pretty organic and natural is it not?
Badgers80
5 year old buck +
Here are some links, but you seem fairly convinced in your opinion on this. I understand, chemicals aren't anyone's favorite. I don't like using them. So, I already have an unfavorable opinion on them since I'm aware they aren't great for microbes, water pollution, but I'm unbiased enough when research shows something that goes against my opinion.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6827263/
https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302%2803%2973759-X/
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
The big picture I think about is in modern agriculture.
Sugar beets were sprayed with 2/4 D pre harvest to increase sugar.
Wheat etc is sprayed with glyphosate pre harvest to make kernels more uniform in moisture content.
The state of Idaho used to recommend lower levels of glyphosate to “ cheapen” it up. Talk about trying to get resistance in the weed genetic pool.
Today I continued spraying the irrigation ditch, in the mud were deer tracks in the now dry ditch. You could see where they had been feeding on the vegetation in the ditch I was spraying. Kinda sad.
I know there was a comment about to the wild animals it “ matters”. I wonder if they really want to live in these chemicals ?
Sugar beets were sprayed with 2/4 D pre harvest to increase sugar.
Wheat etc is sprayed with glyphosate pre harvest to make kernels more uniform in moisture content.
The state of Idaho used to recommend lower levels of glyphosate to “ cheapen” it up. Talk about trying to get resistance in the weed genetic pool.
Today I continued spraying the irrigation ditch, in the mud were deer tracks in the now dry ditch. You could see where they had been feeding on the vegetation in the ditch I was spraying. Kinda sad.
I know there was a comment about to the wild animals it “ matters”. I wonder if they really want to live in these chemicals ?
