Journey to Stop Smoking!

[yoderjac]

I see what you’re saying, sorry for misinterpreting.

No problem. Several other things are different as well. I noticed that with the Leupold bases and their QR rings, the release leavers are smaller and more protected. With the Leupold QR rings for the Picatinny base, the leavers are more exposed. That may have led to me pumping one of them on something loosening it. I've checked they after each shot since and they haven't budged from the recoil. Even though there is an industry standard spec for a Picatinny rail, there are always manufacturing tolerances to deal with. When a single company is building both bases and QR rings, they have several advantages. First, they have more design freedom allowing for the possibility of a more effective design. Also, they have control of the manufacturing process on both sides of the fence and can set the tolerances to support the design.

Industry standards, de facto or otherwise, are great for keeping prices down through competition. I think for standard rings, folks will find little problem.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[swat1018]

Why would you want a QR? Do you not have dedicated scopes for each rifle? I can't think of a good reason to use one.

 

[yoderjac]

Why would you want a QR? Do you not have dedicated scopes for each rifle? I can't think of a good reason to use one.

I do have dedicated scopes for each firearm now. When I was younger, I did not. Also, when I was young I was a bit more adventurous. I did a bit of traveling to hunt. This allowed me to take a backup scope with me in case of a failure. I only took a couple of long distance trips, but it was a tradition to go to hunting camp for a week with friends in another part of the state. We would pack everything up in one vehicle and head to camp. Once there, we were pretty isolated. If you had a failure you could not fix, you had to sit around camp for a week while others hunted. It happened to me several times with low end scopes.

So, that was my rationale for going to QR when I got a bit older and had some money to buy better equipment. Things changed in my situation and I got more into archery and eventually got the farm and got into QDM. So, I really have not needed QR for a long time. However, I never had a single issue once I started using Leupold. As I'm approaching retirement, I don't know if I may travel to hunt again or not.

When I got the smokeless I first ordered non-QR rings. This is covered earlier in this thread. I had my first issue with Leupold and they handled it quickly. The heads on the torx screws for the rings were not cut deep enough and they stripped before I could get them to torque spec. I guess it is possible the issue was my torque driver, but either way, I was not happy. I called Leupold and they sent me new parts. However, as I was dealing with this, I thought about the possibility of travel after retirement. Since I had never had problems with Leupold QR before, I decided to order a set instead. I still have the non-QR rings sitting on the shelf with the new parts if I need them.

So, that is the why and how we got here. I think everything is working top notch now. It is simply a matter of keeping an eye on the leavers to make sure they have not been smacked. Since smokeless does best with a fouled barrel, I know I'll have the gun to the range before each season to foul the barrel, so I notice any change in impact point before i hunt.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

After I got over the hiccups of the first season things went pretty well with the smokeless muzzleloader. I've been looking for LRPs since even before I ordered the muzzleloader with no luck. I finally broke down and payed the high premium on gunbroker to order 500 (1/2 a case). I probably still have 50 left from the first sleeve, I got off gunbroker shortly after I ordered the gun. So, I should be good for the foreseeable future. I did get lucky before last season by checking the Hodgdon web site daily got 8 lbs of 4198.

 

[yoderjac]

Finally after getting a Labradar, I got back to the range. I now feels much more comfortable with my process.

I started with a clean barrel. The first shot for fouling (shot 0) was low and left. I wasn't too careful with the shot. I was still learning the labradar and did not have it in the right mode to capture the shot. Shots 1, 2, and 3 were taken with the fouled barrel and were all captured by the lab radar.


Stats - Average 2567.27 fps

Stats - Highest 2574.44 fps

Stats - Lowest 2554.5 fps

Stats - Ext. Spread 19.94 fps

Stats - Std. Dev 11.08 fps



Shot ID V0 V20 V40 V60 V80 V100 Ke0 Ke20 Ke40 Ke60 Ke80 Ke100 PF20 Proj. Weight Date Time

1 2555 2500 2447 2393 2339 2285 3983 3816 3654 3494 3340 3187 687.5 275 8/13/2022 11:30:14

2 2574 2516 2462 2407 2352 2299 4046 3866 3700 3537 3376 3225 691.9 275 8/13/2022 11:36:59

3 2573 2524 2471 2417 2363 2313 4041 3890 3727 3565 3408 3266 694.1 275 8/13/2022 11:42:02


With an ES of 20fps, I'm now much less concerned. It appears the all the variability was with the old chronograph or the setup.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Very close to what I’m seeing for velocity. What charge of h4198 are you using?

 

[yoderjac]

Very close to what I’m seeing for velocity. What charge of h4198 are you using?

65 grain of 4198 with a 275 grain Pittman bullet. No wad. That load was recommended by Jeff Hankins, who built the gun, as a maximum safe starting point. I won't exceed that load but may work down over time if I start shooting longer ranges after retirement. It is supposed to be a 300 yard gun. For my current hunting area (my farm) I would never take longer shots than 200-300 and they would be rare. Most are inside 150.

 

[Garrett S]

I’m using a 25.5” McGowan on a rem action, 68.5gr 4198 w 275gr bonded fury startip2s after using Luke’s X bullets for a bit and not appreciating the terminal performance. From a good restringing steel is capped by my scope around 650due to reticle thickness.


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[Wind Gypsy]

I’m using a 25.5” McGowan on a rem action, 68.5gr 4198 w 275gr bonded fury startip2s after using Luke’s X bullets for a bit and not appreciating the terminal performance. From a good restringing steel is capped by my scope around 650due to reticle thickness.


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What didn't you like about terminal performance from Luke's bullets, excessive expansion?

I've only talked with one guy who had a encore setup like Jack and I and the pics he sent showed softball sized exit holes.

 

[Garrett S]

From a shooting perspective they appeared more prone to wind drift.

From a TP stand point- they’ll pull hair, like you shaved a 8” circle of hide” on the entry location. While they’re extremely devastating on exit- they would literally clog the cavity with hair. Killed a mature buck with mid rib entry (quartering away- pic attached) and far shoulder exit at 230yards. Fist sized entry and exit. Went 70 yards + or - a few and the blood trail was non existent. A few freezer does had junk shoulders from excessive devastation also lousy trails, not drt and left piles of hair

 

[swat1018]

Not a fan either, I shoot these things to eat. Who needs that much damage.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Not a fan either, I shoot these things to eat. Who needs that much damage.

You've had similar results with the Arrowhead bullets?

 

[Garrett S]

For what it is worth the Furys are about as devastating (like stay away from the scapula- bow zone of vitals desired) but they don’t do the haircut thing and IF they go anywhere, there’s a blood trail.

I would say they’re equally as accurate from my gun.

 

[yoderjac]

Same exit devastation with Pitman. I'm going to need to stop taking scapula shots!

 

[Garrett S]

It’s ironic you say that- I ended up going back to them because Luke’s did so poorly with blood trails and I was invested into a 100 of them.


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[yoderjac]

I started smokeless because of potential for lost deer. I was getting no blood trail and with the smoke cloud on a windless day, I didn't even know which way the deer ran. I was fortunate to recover several that very good shot placement. I guess I can't complain. Since I went smokeless, I have not had a deer leave my sight once I pulled the trigger.

 

[Booner21]

Same exit devastation with Pitman. I'm going to need to stop taking scapula shots!

I started with his hard cores for that reason. Haven’t shot a deer with them but they are supposed to hold together better.


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[yoderjac]

I started with his hard cores for that reason. Haven’t shot a deer with them but they are supposed to hold together better.


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Yep, I considered that, but I've got about 70 to shoot before I buy more.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Why would the standard Pittman accumax bullets have different terminal performance than Luke’s XLD? Appear to be same build type, same jacket thickness. I can understand how the harder core ones would be different. Maybe there’s a difference between the cores on the standard accumax and XLD too?

I understand how the bonded fury bullets would hold together better because they are bonded.

 

[Garrett S]

I think Al vs plastic tips matter. Jacket thickness and copper taper matter. Individual velocity matters too.

I went smokeless as I love shooting rifles but not hunting with them… and I wanted better accuracy, term performance (and the extra yardage and lack of cleaning needs don’t hurt either) over an inline.

Most expensive gun I own but a favorite for sure. Have sold numerous friends on smokeless in similar to different configurations after trying mine too.

Not sure what the perfect gun or load is….. but she is my go-to when not taking the bow.


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