Insect pollination pondering

[Turkey Creek]

I was just pondering some fruit production random thoughts. I understand the birds and the bees of fruit production :D; however, how does a bees constant addition of pollen from the same variety not plug the "style" portion of the flower and thus keep pollen from a cross pollinating variety from reaching the ovary? Has anyone seen an article on this? Obviously a bee doesnt go from a flower on one variety directly to the variety of another flower. You would think a single flower would simply become clogged with pollen from nearby flowers and never become cross pollinated.

 

[greyphase]

I think someone has too much time on their hands. :D:D:D

 

[sandbur]

I was just pondering some fruit production random thoughts. I understand the birds and the bees of fruit production :D; however, how does a bees constant addition of pollen from the same variety not plug the "style" portion of the flower and thus keep pollen from a cross pollinating variety from reaching the ovary? Has anyone seen an article on this? Obviously a bee doesnt go from a flower on one variety directly to the variety of another flower. You would think a single flower would simply become clogged with pollen from nearby flowers and never become cross pollinated.

Some crab apples are self fertile and other apples need pollen from a different tree. I imagine you all ready know this.

Sooo..... is there any rule of thumb about fertility (self or not) with wild trees?

 

[Turkey Creek]

Yes I was just wondering how varieties that need cross pollination actually get cross pollinated without being over whelmed prior to cross pollination with pollen from other flowers on the same tree. Bees carry pollen from one flower to the next, but you would assume far more pollen is introduced from the flowers on the same tree than say another tree some distance away.

I would guess that there are both self fertile wild trees and others that need cross pollination. Though I have never seen anything scientific to support that.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bee cams - set to video. Count bee visits to flowers of one tree before moving to another tree !! :D:p Couldn't resist TC !!! ;)

 

[buckvelvet]

Insect pollination, you know I planted some trees and then my wife put chickens around them. That may not bode well when its time for pollination. Chickens are not nice to bugs......lol

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I would imagine since pollen is so microscopic a bee can carry the who,e days visits from one tree to the next. The bee isn't releasing anything he is just going to town on the flower and therefore the pollen should be left behind. I don't know what I am taking about but that's how I see it lol

 

[Turkey Creek]

Call me an odd duck:), the more I think about it the more I would really like to know the facts. I guess I will need to contact an expert in the field. I was hoping one of you guys would know the real answer. Maybe it is one of lifes unexplained mysteries.:D

 

[sandbur]

Call me an odd duck:), the more I think about it the more I would really like to know the facts. I guess I will need to contact an expert in the field. I was hoping one of you guys would know the real answer. Maybe it is one of lifes unexplained mysteries.:D

You got all kinds of answers and now you want to learn the truth?

 

[Maya]

I don't know the answer TC, but you should be able to ask and get your answer here... http://articles.extension.org/apples

 

[aerospacefarmer]

http://www.thenewfruitgrower.com/pollination_basics.htm

As this article states the bees sometimes get the other pollen back in the hood after other bees go there and deposit their nectar. Its also why many orchards use crabapple trees interspersed in a like block of trees to help pollination. Mystery solved Turkey but that was a great question and very helpful to me.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Somebody always has a good link - or 2 - to get answers here !! That's why this place is cool to be a part of. Thanks guys.

 

[chickenlittle]

I did a little searching this morning. It seems the answer is about biochemistry and size/shape. Lots of pollen gets onto the flower. The right pollen will get chemical signals that it should grow (like a seed) and pollinate. Each flower can accept pollen for each seed in the apple.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Hey I got some wheels turning in our minds! I did some more in depth researching last night and learned a lot. Did not find a exact answer, but I think Chickenlittles answer is pretty close.

Maya nice link as well. I put my question there. We will see what response I get and post it here.

 

[Maya]

Hey I got some wheels turning in our minds! I did some more in depth researching last night and learned a lot. Did not find a exact answer, but I think Chickenlittles answer is pretty close.

Maya nice link as well. I put my question there. We will see what response I get and post it here.

It's a good site to read TC. Should be helpful to you in the nursery.

 

[Turkey Creek]

And the professionals answer. Which I actually do understand, I have a degree in biology and always enjoyed my genetics classes!

The environment on the stigma where the pollen lands and germinates is pretty nice for a lot of things to grow so it is pretty crowded. Most of the pollen germinates and the pollen tubes begin to grow down into the style of the pistil heading for the ovary and egg cell. There are a lot of different mechanisms used to prevent selfing. There must be some recognition that takes place between the pollen tube and the tissue of the style and growth of the selfing pollen tube is inhibited so that they are unlikely to fertilize the egg cell. There is only a narrow window in time to fertilize the egg cell before it dies. In apples that are partially self fruitful, they can self pollinate and there is probably less inhibition. There may also be some inhibition preventing fertilization of the egg cell by pollen form the same plant. Since apples cross pollinate so readily (really only need two different varieties unless one is triploid) this mechanism, might be very complex with several genes interacting.
In cherries this phenomenon has been more studied because there are groups of cherries that will not pollinate each other. In cherries, these are called pollination groups. In cherries, there is a single gene called S which prevents self pollination. There are multiple alleles (variations) of this gene; S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6 and probably more. Each diploid cherry has two copies of the S gene in its DNA. When pollen is formed it undergoes a reduction division to a haploid have only one copy of the gene. The goal of pollination is to have the haploid pollen tube unite with the haploid egg cell and create a new diploid cherry. A cherry tree which had S1,S2 copies of the S gene would produce half pollen with S1 and half S2. If that pollen with S1 gene lands on any cherry that also has a copy of the same allele (S1) that pollen will be inhibited. Only pollen that odes not have a copy of either S1 of S2 will grow rapidly on a cherry tree which has the S1 ans S2 alleles.
I hope that is understandable ;)

Mark L.
Replied February 23, 2016, 5:01 PM EST

 

[Maya]

"Most of the pollen germinates and the pollen tubes begin to grow down into the style of the pistil heading for the ovary and egg cell. There are a lot of different mechanisms used to prevent selfing."

I'd like to see an illustration of this. Some said you must be bored, but it's a really good question. Pretty interesting.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

It is interesting !! I was just busting his stones at post #5. As long as it all works and we get fruit ........ I'm happy !! :) We certainly need the biology guys who get it and can provide answers and solutions. Many thanks !!

 

[Turkey Creek]

I always thought of pollen as an inanimate object in the past (I guess simply because I knew something had to act to move it from one location to another), once I learned it is actually a living structure that made the concept easier to understand.