Input on my plan?

[Bowsnbucks]

Being from central Pa. too, I can tell you the soil in those pines is acidic, as Mo just said. ^^^ If you cut any of those pines and want something else to grow there, I'd also do soil testing. But I can tell you - you'll need lime. If nothing else. Shed pine needles make the soil acidic. All the states of the N.E. part of the country get acid rain ( I know - I've tested it with an electronic meter designed for that purpose. Some of this rain is as acidic as lemon juice - no joke ). So that only adds to the problem. You'll need lime !!

As others have said, sunlight on the ground will make a lot of difference getting new growth. Native Hunter explained how pines block sunlight and you get nothing growing under them. 100% true - we have a patch of pines just like that at my camp 1 hour and 45 minutes north of your location. Useless for deer food or bedding. If you want deer to hang around, thicken your cover. Cut some pines ( wherever you decide ) and get sunlight in there. THEN SPREAD SOME LIME !! Blackberries, goldenrod, weeds, tree seedlings, etc. will spring up. Personally - I'd plant a few Norway spruce to make some bedding spots / thermal cover, and let nature fill in around them. ( spruce - unlike pines - will keep limbs all the way to the ground, making great thermal cover / windbreak ). Spruce, goldenrod, blackberries = good cover. I'd also plant some apple and crabapple trees around the edges for eating & additional attraction. Fruit trees need lots of sunlight.

 

[nrowles]

I'm really glad I posted this on here. I'm not offended in any way. I haven't done anything yet on my property because I was afraid to screw up anything good I have going. I think this has already happened but let's shift this towards a "what would you do" thread. It seems as though a few of you have already done this but any more suggestions are welcome. I know this thread is all over the place now but please tell me what you think. I have been hunting for over 20 years with success but I have never tried to manage my own property.

In regards to the most recent posts, I have already had a soil test done in the west clearing. It has a ph of 5, needing 4 tons per acre of lime to get to 7. The report also shows other soil nutrients well below optimum, so it would also need plenty of fertilizer. I'm already on top of those requirements.

Is the general consensus at this point to increase cover and if I plant anything food wise make it small? I have taken many walks in the woods over the past year and half and I don't notice much bedding activity. The only place I've ever noticed bedding is 15 yards north of the clearing I mapped out in the original post. That is a small hillside. You are correct in saying that my trees are very thick in spots, but there is limited ground cover, just the trees themselves with not many limbs. In most areas there is very little or no browse growing on the ground.

How does this sound?

Thins areas with a tight canopy to allow sunlight to hit the ground creating browse growth. Would it be a good idea to let some of these trees lay/lean against the trees next to them? Would the deer like that or should I try to remove all of them that I cut?

Add some spruce trees for good bedding, in addition to what comes up naturally in the thinned areas. Create the bedding more towards the center? How would you plant these? Clear half an acre or mix them in? Grid or random? How close together? Etc.

Add some food sources in inconspicuous ways. Possibly closer to the house keeping it separated from the bedding.

Would it be a good idea to plant some of the original things mentioned (such as dwarf chinkapin oak, wild plum, etc.) randomly into the thinned woods or should they be planted in groups in a clearing?

 

[bwoods11]

I would think so...planting plum, Apple, oak, I can't see how that would be a negative anywhere?

Just plant them in strategic areas.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I would think so...planting plum, Apple, oak, I can't see how that would be a negative anywhere?

Just plant them in strategic areas.

I agree, hazel nuts, dogwood, shingle oak, just so many choices. The key would be to get enough light in there to allow them to grow. Keeping the deer away until they get established would be a big concern as well.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

"How does this sound?

Thins areas with a tight canopy to allow sunlight to hit the ground creating browse growth. Would it be a good idea to let some of these trees lay/lean against the trees next to them? Would the deer like that or should I try to remove all of them that I cut?

Add some spruce trees for good bedding, in addition to what comes up naturally in the thinned areas. Create the bedding more towards the center? How would you plant these? Clear half an acre or mix them in? Grid or random? How close together? Etc.

Add some food sources in inconspicuous ways. Possibly closer to the house keeping it separated from the bedding.

Would it be a good idea to plant some of the original things mentioned (such as dwarf chinkapin oak, wild plum, etc.) randomly into the thinned woods or should they be planted in groups in a clearing?"

I think you are on a much better path now than before. But only you know your property best. None of us do, because looking at a map never does a property
justice. I like Jeff23's idea of possibly a water hole in between your bedding and property line somewhere if you don't already have it.

 

[chickenlittle]

Do you have much autumn olive on you or nearby? Or other invasives? If so, I'd be trying to plant in more desirable stuff as you go if you decide to open up the pines.

 

[nrowles]

Do you have much autumn olive on you or nearby? Or other invasives? If so, I'd be trying to plant in more desirable stuff as you go if you decide to open up the pines.

I have absolutely no autumn olive. I would also say that I have no perennial invasives. I just went for a walk. It is obviously now winter here with about an inch of snow and the only "thick" thing out there are the jack pine trees. No briars, no weeds, no brush, no nothing but trees. Does that answer the question?

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I have absolutely no autumn olive. I would also say that I have no perennial invasives. I just went for a walk. It is obviously now winter here with about an inch of snow and the only "thick" thing out there are the jack pine trees. No briars, no weeds, no brush, no nothing but trees. Does that answer the question?

Sounds like you have no where to go but up brother!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chapter title in Neil and Craig Dougherty's book Grow 'Em Right - - " A Chainsaw is a Deer's Best Friend ". Plan your cut areas, get sunlight in there, let natural regeneration happen, plant some apples, crabs, nuts, dogwoods, hardwoods, some spruce. All good. It's been working for us.

 

[Jeff23]

Depending where exactly in central PA you are, let me know if you want another set of eyes. I am almost exactly in the geographic center of PA, and trees are my business, so I could offer some help or advice, no strings attached if it would be helpful to you. I am no expert on designing properties, but would help another local, if possible. I will say this: there is an old pine stand just off the edge of our farm, and it is a mess in there of logs, tops and brush (all from storm damage over the years.) Once the deer get pushed in nearby areas- they are ALWAYS in there. When they get pushed out of there, they are almost always back within a couple hours. A pine stand that looks like a tornado zone can be your best friend with pressured deer and in bad weather.

 

[yoderjac]

Fisherman's Paradise?

 

[Jeff23]

Very close, I will drive right by there today.

 

[nrowles]

Very close, I will drive right by there today.

Good deal. I'll be in touch.

 

[yoderjac]

Very close, I will drive right by there today.

Spent a lot of time there when I was younger.

 

[nrowles]

I have a couple questions.

Am I correct in saying that I should keep any food or cover I create off the property lines? Keep it more towards the middle of my property. That way I can access those from all sides.

Should I keep cover and food off the current deer trails I'm seeing and create that stuff near or on the edges of the deer trails? I don't want to disturb areas I already know they are using.

If the previous statements are correct, I'm going to have a hard time providing much bedding and food at same time. Is it ok to put a food source up against bedding? If not up against, my woods are pretty thick so maybe 100' between them? I'm currently thinking an acre of Norway Spruce for cover.

 

[Bill]

I like the idea of bedding over food. (At least a field of food)

I would start by dropping some pines in the center in say a 1/4 to 1/2 acre area and see what mother nature offers over the summer. Leave those trees on the ground and the deer will start bedding against them in a few days. (Thats my guess) Just make it so the deer can get in and around them.

Hows the wife feel about a nice green stand of clover in the back yard? They'll hit it at night. You would only have to mow a few times a year and you would be helping the poor honey bees out. I tried at home. Wife gave that funny look, but you might have better luck.

 

[nrowles]

I like the idea of bedding over food. (At least a field of food)

I would start by dropping some pines in the center in say a 1/4 to 1/2 acre area and see what mother nature offers over the summer. Leave those trees on the ground and the deer will start bedding against them in a few days. (Thats my guess) Just make it so the deer can get in and around them.

Hows the wife feel about a nice green stand of clover in the back yard? They'll hit it at night. You would only have to mow a few times a year and you would be helping the poor honey bees out. I tried at home. Wife gave that funny look, but you might have better luck.

That's funny you say that. I know this was a terrible idea but I seeded a food plot mix when I was making my new yard because I ran out of grass and it was all I had before the rain came. The summer heat/drought killed 90% of my grass and all that was left was food plot, most noticeably rape. Everybody that came to my house said "what the heck is that weed growing in your yard?".

 

[yoderjac]

That's funny you say that. I know this was a terrible idea but I seeded a food plot mix when I was making my new yard because I ran out of grass and it was all I had before the rain came. The summer heat/drought killed 90% of my grass and all that was left was food plot, most noticeably rape. Everybody that came to my house said "what the heck is that weed growing in your yard?".

Not a terrible idea at all. In the old days, yards were a mix of fescue and clover. The clover fed N to the fescue. The herbicide companies had a herbicide that killed noxious weeds but also killed clover. So, the fixed it with marketing. "You don't want to attract bees your yard that might sting your kids". That is how we ended up with monocultures of fescue.