Hunting options in straight walled cartridge states

[yoderjac]

I've been reading the 350 Legend thread and enjoying it (https://habitat-talk.com/threads/350-legend.12854/). From what I understand, much of the interest in it and similar firearms is the regulation in some state like Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio. I don't hunt in any of those states, and I'm no expert on the regulations there. I'm sure a significant amount of interest comes from nostalgia and tradition as well.

Completely unrelated to this, for completely different reasons, I started my journey into Smokeless Muzzleloading (https://habitat-talk.com/threads/journey-to-stop-smoking.13254/ ). I am really falling in love with the Smokeless Muzzleloader. We don't have a straight walled restriction here, so I've been using an Encore in .300 Win Mag and old Rem .30-06. I find the smokeless every bit as effective.

This got me thinking about the guys with straight wall restrictions. Again, I'm not expert on regulations in other states, but a quick internet search shows there is no powder type restrictions for muzzleloaders in those 3 states. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I didn't check into the details, but I think in most states, you can use a more primitive weapon during a modern firearm season. For the casual reader let me say DON'T USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN A MUZZLELOADER THAT IS NOT SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR IT. Having said that, the only downside I've found to smokeless muzzleloading is the cost. Most smokeless muzzleloaders are custom made and will set your back at least a couple thousand.

However, if you are in one of the states that require straight wall cartridges and are looking to reach out to longer ranges, you might want to look into the regulations on muzzleloaders in your state. If your state allows, a smokeless muzzleloader could be used in both muzzleloader as well as your general firearm season amortizing the cost over more hunting. Just a thought.

I put this in a new thread where folks in straight wall states can discuss there specific regulations so as not to muddy-up the 350 Legend thread.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I live in a shotgun zone in MN. I have a 870 with rifled slug barrel and cantilever mounted scope but I doubt I'll ever use it to hunt again in lieu of a smokeless muzzle loader that is legal in shotgun zones. That said, I'd never choose a muzzle loader over a straight wall cartridge just because of the hassle involved with loading, weather protection, carrying spare loose primers/bullets/powder charges, etc.

Lots of hunters either suck at shooting or throw a lot of lead down range in questionable situations rather than only taking shots that are all but guaranteed to result in a dead animal. So the idea of only having one shot would be tough to get over for many.

 

[yoderjac]

I live in a shotgun zone in MN. I have a 870 with rifled slug barrel and cantilever mounted scope but I doubt I'll ever use it to hunt again in lieu of a smokeless muzzle loader that is legal in shotgun zones. That said, I'd never choose a muzzle loader over a straight wall cartridge just because of the hassle involved with loading, weather protection, carrying spare loose primers/bullets/powder charges, etc.

Lots of hunters either suck at shooting or throw a lot of lead down range in questionable situations rather than only taking shots that are all but guaranteed to result in a dead animal. So the idea of only having one shot would be tough to get over for many.

I absolutely agree. I've been in shotgun counties for most of my hunting career. I've taken a lot of kids from my Hunter Education classes out hunting. I always give them H&R single shot 20 gauges with a rifled barrel an limit them to 50-75 yards. Knowing that you only have one shot really helps focus, especially in new hunter.

 

[SwampCat]

Conversely to that, the best of the best will probably miss their mark one day. A quick back up shot can prevent a less than satisfying outcome when trailing wounded deer.

 

[bwoods11]

I’ll be using the .350 Legend this weekend again in Iowa. Pretty confident in the gun and the ammo so far (which is from Bear Creek Ballistics) … a tip from Mortenson/HT !

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Conversely to that, the best of the best will probably miss their mark one day. A quick back up shot can prevent a less than satisfying outcome when trailing wounded deer.

No argument from me. I'm just particularly soured lately by all the lead throwing stories I've heard.

Worked public rifle site in day at my range this year and had a guy with an SKS that could not hit a damn beach ball sized target at 100 yards more than 50% of the time from a bench. "it's just my brush gun for running deer up close" is the justification that he had and so many others have said similar... The fact that people justify a weapon they cant hit shit with by using a situation where odds of a good shot are already low (running deer, not a clear path to the vitals), and solve it with a 30 round mag, makes my head about explode.

 

[yoderjac]

Conversely to that, the best of the best will probably miss their mark one day. A quick back up shot can prevent a less than satisfying outcome when trailing wounded deer.

Yep, but that comes with experience. I find kids are too quick to shoot when they have more than one shot. I can't recall the last time I dispatched a deer with a follow-up shot. I'm sure there are cases when it happens. I just think statically, I recover more deer when I'm not worried about actuating the action for a follow-up. I'm more focused on the shot as well as watching the deer's reaction to the shot. For the many years I hunted in shotgun counties, I used a Benelli SBE semi-auto. I like it because I never worried about actuating the action. However, I never had an instance when I took a second shot that I can recall. Even though I did have opportunity, I just feel squeamish about shooting at a running deer for safety reasons. Target fixation is a real risk for me. I do better just watching the deer run.

I think different folks can have different views on this, but I'd rather focus on one good shot than take an OK shot with a quick followup.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

Hmm - never occurred to me to just take an OK shot

 

[yoderjac]

Hmm - never occurred to me to just take an OK shot

OK shots are not intentions. They occur when one's focus is broken. Poor form, trigger slap, and so on.... I wasn't speaking of shot selection, but shot result.

 

[bigboreblr]

In places that allow straight wall cartirdges during muzzleloading season, does the minimum caliber rule apply to those cartridges.

My main hunting rifle is a browning BLR in 450 marlin, but will be using the 308 I bought this year more. On nice days I do bring out flintlocks during rifle season.

I've pretty much always had a 200 yard limit in my head. Alot of my heavy work is done at camp and at my house, so I got more time to practice shooting this upcoming year too.

A few years ago, the county south of me was hotgun only, but allowed muzzleloaders. I always brought my inline with me instead. 44 mag bullet, harvester sabot, regular shotgun primer, and real blackpowder. I use real powder because I use the same stuff and the same amount 80gr FFFg in my 54 cal flintlock.

I have been the one good shot mentality. But, I am going to quick 2nd shot if the deer runs. I'm more of picking a good shot, than picking the biggest horns. Bang drop gut..... I really enjoy when they get real close like traditional bow range.........

For folks who do not practice much or get jitters easily. I am in favor of the best technology available to harvest. I know folks at work who reguarly wound 1 to 3 deer before recoving one in some seasons....

 

[chaded]

We used to be shotgun here but you could use a muzzleloader as well. I switched to a muzzleloader because it was typically a more accurate gun then slug guns in general. I got into it woth several different inlines and then had several smokeless muzzleloaders as well.

When they approved straight wall rifles I couldn’t get one fast enough. The muzzleloader get broke out for our late season muzzleloaders season that is just a few days and that’s it.

 

[yoderjac]

In places that allow straight wall cartirdges during muzzleloading season, does the minimum caliber rule apply to those cartridges.

My main hunting rifle is a browning BLR in 450 marlin, but will be using the 308 I bought this year more. On nice days I do bring out flintlocks during rifle season.

I've pretty much always had a 200 yard limit in my head. Alot of my heavy work is done at camp and at my house, so I got more time to practice shooting this upcoming year too.

A few years ago, the county south of me was hotgun only, but allowed muzzleloaders. I always brought my inline with me instead. 44 mag bullet, harvester sabot, regular shotgun primer, and real blackpowder. I use real powder because I use the same stuff and the same amount 80gr FFFg in my 54 cal flintlock.

I have been the one good shot mentality. But, I am going to quick 2nd shot if the deer runs. I'm more of picking a good shot, than picking the biggest horns. Bang drop gut..... I really enjoy when they get real close like traditional bow range.........

For folks who do not practice much or get jitters easily. I am in favor of the best technology available to harvest. I know folks at work who reguarly wound 1 to 3 deer before recoving one in some seasons....

I was actually thinking the other way. I don't know if there are any places that allow straight walled cartridges during muzzleloader season. Maybe there are. I was thinking that some that restrict rifles to straight wall cartridges during general firearms season, allow muzzleloaders and don't have powder restrictions.

 

[yoderjac]

We used to be shotgun here but you could use a muzzleloader as well. I switched to a muzzleloader because it was typically a more accurate gun then slug guns in general. I got into it woth several different inlines and then had several smokeless muzzleloaders as well.

When they approved straight wall rifles I couldn’t get one fast enough. The muzzleloader get broke out for our late season muzzleloaders season that is just a few days and that’s it.

I did something similar. My 12 gauge benelli SBE projectile started tumbling after about 100 yards. My 50 cal Encore black powder equivalent muzzleloader started tumbling at about 150 yards but had quite a bit of drop.

My new Hankins Encore .45 smokeless muzzleloader build is good to about 300 yards. It deliver a huge amount of energy compared to either the shotgun or black powder equivalent. Actually, the reason I got it had nothing to do with range or the higher KE. It was the lack of smoke. I had a couple really hard recoveries with black powder equivalents on windless days. I'd put the cross-hairs on the deer and squeeze the trigger. By the time the smoke cleared there was no deer. When I got down, there was no blood trail. I got lucky walking circles and didn't actually lose any deer, but it was a concern. Since I've gone to the smokeless, every deer has been bang-thump.

There was a fairly steep learning curve going from a black powder equivalent. That is because I did not come from a hand loading background. There was new support equipment to buy and a lot of learning about powders and pressures and such. It was a fun experience though.

There is a big difference between a traditional in-line black powder equivalent muzzleloader and a smokeless.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Angus 1895]

I think the 375 Winchester might be a good choice!

there is a lot of monkey business with the 38/55 about the brass chamber bore size etc.

lately been studying the 357 mag/ 44 mag/ 45 LC.

perhaps the 454 casul?

in Idaho they have to be originally a hand gun cartridge to qualify for a short range weapon.

been studying the Henry single shot versus big boy glove loop in 454 .

But hands down the king of straight wall case cartridges is the time tested 45/70 IMO.
or like big bore BLR the 450 marlin.

or it’s cousin the 444!

Fleas off Thee Dawg!

 

[Angus 1895]

Heavy 375 WINCHESTER - 255

Heavy 375 Winchester Ammo - 255 gr. JFN (2,000 fps/ME 2,264 ft. lbs) - 20 Round Box

www.buffalobore.com

 

[Angus 1895]

https://www.riflemagazine.com/spikedriver-454-casull

 

[North Mo]

No argument from me. I'm just particularly soured lately by all the lead throwing stories I've heard.

Worked public rifle site in day at my range this year and had a guy with an SKS that could not hit a damn beach ball sized target at 100 yards more than 50% of the time from a bench. "it's just my brush gun for running deer up close" is the justification that he had and so many others have said similar... The fact that people justify a weapon they cant hit shit with by using a situation where odds of a good shot are already low (running deer, not a clear path to the vitals), and solve it with a 30 round mag, makes my head about explode.

Can’t fix stupid. I‘ve tried. You are right if they are not good enough to hit with the high odds on the 1st shot then forget it. Best practice is to shoot running rabbits with a .22. Most people have never hit a moving target with a rifle.

 

[Angus 1895]

No argument from me. I'm just particularly soured lately by all the lead throwing stories I've heard.

Worked public rifle site in day at my range this year and had a guy with an SKS that could not hit a damn beach ball sized target at 100 yards more than 50% of the time from a bench. "it's just my brush gun for running deer up close" is the justification that he had and so many others have said similar... The fact that people justify a weapon they cant hit shit with by using a situation where odds of a good shot are already low (running deer, not a clear path to the vitals), and solve it with a 30 round mag, makes my head about explode.

It seems there is some kinda “ magic knack” for marksmanship that non shooters believe flow in their genetic make up.

When I started hunting with center fire rifles….I think I was 30 years old. I was absolutely hopeless at it!

It took me lots of learning (some the hard way) to be half ass competent.

it’s a journey for sure.