Heavy soil compaction and no -till

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Been going on 3 years in my backyard foodplot since tillage was done. Im past the weedy nightmare stage where I need to redo a plot.

However, this year I planted rye labor day weekend. Sprayed about a week ahead. Spread rye and mowed the existing 3ft tallish rye and weed stand. About 3 passes with the ATV mower.

A week afterwards I finished up my drainage trench is the yard about 50 yards away. I used the soil from the lawn to fill up the stump holes from the old orchard trees removed maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Spread rye on them, no fertilizer or lime. The rye in the stump hole area grew twice as tall. A light amount of lime and fertilzer was applied to the new trench area. That grew 3 times as high and was planted a week or two later.

Thinking I have compaction issues. Debating buying a used baretto commercial rototiller tomorrow. Rototilling a 1/3 of the plot every year. It's about a 1/2 acre spot, once I opening it up a touch more. Walk behind tiller, but 13hp 20 inch width. Does about an acre every 3 hours.

Apple trees are in the same soil. Where I amended the soil with lighter peat moss and/or potting soil, the trees did that much better.

I will add pictures tomorrow.

 

[SD51555]

I start with compaction where I spread pond clay. Only way I’ve beaten it is to put it into white clover for three years. This year was the first time I’ve gotten full sized collards and jap millet since it started in 2020.


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[Wind Gypsy]

I start with compaction where I spread pond clay. Only way I’ve beaten it is to put it into white clover for three years. This year was the first time I’ve gotten full sized collards and jap millet since it started in 2020.


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I was betting on gypsum and thistle.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I was betting on gypsum and thistle.

Same

The OP was a hanging curve for SD........

bill

 

[bigboreblr]

good, bad, indifferent I bought the rototiller. 600lbs, 13hp honda engine, hydraulic run, does froward or reverse till. Barreto 1320. They go from 7000-900 bucks, got her for $850 today. Went food shopping after picking it up, saw the back of the pickup was riding low.... Decieded to call it Frank the Tank....




I was black friday shopping with the wife. Was in lowe's. Pelletized lime is cheaper than powdered lime.

Im a bit confused. Might put another thread in on this, or see if there's an old one. Powdered looked like it has alot more calcium than pelletized. Like 34% vs 17% on the pelletized, something like that. The effective neutralizing was litterally the same though. I do know magnesium bonds raise the pH in pelletized, but didn't know it was as good. I cant find specs on either one online. 6.50 a bag for pelletized and 8 a bag for powdered dolomitic., both 40lb Saw tractor supply has 50lb's for $5.50. Likely use theirs. Think they don't have lime in the offseason but will ask. Thinking of getting the oldest son a safe on sale from there.

I have about 3 dump loads of spruce tree wood chips in my yard. Was debating mixing them into the soil. I will try to fight the temptation and rototill the plot at the end of the summer. Will rototille the sod expansion though, Might rototill and regrade a few spots for better drainage in the spring.


Next week I will be using this monster to prep tree spots from the spring. I have 2 or 3 trees to move at home too.

White clover. Got ladino, dutch white, medium red, berseem, durana, patriot, and imperial white in there. Saw some crimson from the plotspike clover blend in there too. Wondering If I mowed my thatch too good for throw n mow. It spreaded evenly out the swisher 42 trail cut mower. All open underneath the deck. Gonna have a bumper crop of red aramath this year. Debating mowing it this summer or not. Maybe a late may. Maybe not.

 

[SD51555]

good, bad, indifferent I bought the rototiller. 600lbs, 13hp honda engine, hydraulic run, does froward or reverse till. Barreto 1320. They go from 7000-900 bucks, got her for $850 today. Went food shopping after picking it up, saw the back of the pickup was riding low.... Decieded to call it Frank the Tank....


View attachment 59907

I was black friday shopping with the wife. Was in lowe's. Pelletized lime is cheaper than powdered lime.

Im a bit confused. Might put another thread in on this, or see if there's an old one. Powdered looked like it has alot more calcium than pelletized. Like 34% vs 17% on the pelletized, something like that. The effective neutralizing was litterally the same though. I do know magnesium bonds raise the pH in pelletized, but didn't know it was as good. I cant find specs on either one online. 6.50 a bag for pelletized and 8 a bag for powdered dolomitic., both 40lb Saw tractor supply has 50lb's for $5.50. Likely use theirs. Think they don't have lime in the offseason but will ask. Thinking of getting the oldest son a safe on sale from there.

I have about 3 dump loads of spruce tree wood chips in my yard. Was debating mixing them into the soil. I will try to fight the temptation and rototill the plot at the end of the summer. Will rototille the sod expansion though, Might rototill and regrade a few spots for better drainage in the spring.


Next week I will be using this monster to prep tree spots from the spring. I have 2 or 3 trees to move at home too.

White clover. Got ladino, dutch white, medium red, berseem, durana, patriot, and imperial white in there. Saw some crimson from the plotspike clover blend in there too. Wondering If I mowed my thatch too good for throw n mow. It spreaded evenly out the swisher 42 trail cut mower. All open underneath the deck. Gonna have a bumper crop of red aramath this year. Debating mowing it this summer or not. Maybe a late may. Maybe not.

Dolomite lime is pound for pound 65% better at raising pH vs calcitic.

Spread chips all over that compacted ground, and more clover.

Ship it.


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[SD51555]

If u got clay, bring the gypsum, flax, and Japanese millet too. Sulfate binds to the magnesium and washes out as epsom salt. Keeps the crusting down too.


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[bigboreblr]

What's a common source for gypsum? Last time I check my loamy clay was a pH of 6.1. So If it's the fact of the calcium needing to be there for soil compaction, the dolomite won't raise it too high.

Was thinking of try the summer green release mix. Thought it had some millet and flax in it.

HArd to tell if I have crusting as an issue, 3 years ago, I ran a cultivator through it iwth the tractor in the spring. Pretty much straight clover if I recall right and a decent spring rain. LAst time ground was bare was my 1st year here about 6 years ago.

Don't want to use the tiller too much and get hard pan. However, this till is close to 600lbs and can go either forward or reverse tine rotation. I'll give forward rotation a try first. That pushes the stuff on the top down. However, most walk behind tillers need to go in reverse rotation. They'll lift up and yank out of your hand. Most forward rotation tillers have mild tines and a hook of some sort to compensate.

I readup on the gypsum stuff aa bit. Soil science of america.

https://www.soils.org/news/science-news/gypsum-agricultural-product/#:~:text=Improving%20soil%20structure%20helps%20farmers,percolation%20through%20the%20soil%20profile.

I do have family in AG. My mother-in-law has a few favors from another larger farmer in the area. She babysits their kid. Might be able to get a loader scoop or two if my trailer is in the right place. Also, I have a good tow behind spreader to get alot of lime or other powders in the ground evenly and quickly, atleast for an ATV.

Wife cut me off from doing tillage radish, so I need another way of loosen the soil up some.

 

[TreeDaddy]

What's a common source for gypsum? Last time I check my loamy clay was a pH of 6.1. So If it's the fact of the calcium needing to be there for soil compaction, the dolomite won't raise it too high.

Was thinking of try the summer green release mix. Thought it had some millet and flax in it.

HArd to tell if I have crusting as an issue, 3 years ago, I ran a cultivator through it iwth the tractor in the spring. Pretty much straight clover if I recall right and a decent spring rain. LAst time ground was bare was my 1st year here about 6 years ago.

Don't want to use the tiller too much and get hard pan. However, this till is close to 600lbs and can go either forward or reverse tine rotation. I'll give forward rotation a try first. That pushes the stuff on the top down. However, most walk behind tillers need to go in reverse rotation. They'll lift up and yank out of your hand. Most forward rotation tillers have mild tines and a hook of some sort to compensate.

I readup on the gypsum stuff aa bit. Soil science of america.

https://www.soils.org/news/science-news/gypsum-agricultural-product/#:~:text=Improving%20soil%20structure%20helps%20farmers,percolation%20through%20the%20soil%20profile.

I do have family in AG. My mother-in-law has a few favors from another larger farmer in the area. She babysits their kid. Might be able to get a loader scoop or two if my trailer is in the right place. Also, I have a good tow behind spreader to get alot of lime or other powders in the ground evenly and quickly, atleast for an ATV.

Wife cut me off from doing tillage radish, so I need another way of loosen the soil up some.

Thank you for the reference

bill

 

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[bigboreblr]

Top pic shows the thatchy spot. Wondering If mowing too well could of been an issue, or the outside edges got more seed, not sure. Did 2 passes, lNorth to south, opened the 12v spreader on the atv while driving into the plot, and shut off level while driving out each pass. Did the same east / west.

2nd pic is an example of those stumps holes I filled with the same soil from the yard. Rototilled the soil loose when I wanted the ditch to run, dumped it in the holes, leveld with a rake, put some seed down, and took the back side of a rake to scratch it in. Was maybe 2 weeks after labor day.

Last pic is the rototiller I bought. It's a little easier to use, but it's still some work. The longer handle makes it about the same to turn around. I didn't push it too the ground hard, and I may have another notch to go. Reverse broke it up well down to 5 inches. Just did a row or two for arborvitae trees. Putting a 2 or 3 near my food plot border. Home depot had 2ft tall ones on ale for $8 each. The foodplot is south of the apple tree rows. Spruce would grow too tall and shade out the trees. Would of played a bit more today, but wanted to hunt the evening in the backyard so I didn't make much noise. Done untill muzzleloader in the backyard. Hunting up at camp this weekend.

 

[jsasker007]

If it is compaction issues I'd plant rye,chicory,radish and anything else that send down roots deep into the ground. jmho

 

[bigboreblr]

I'd like to see someone else rye plantation. HAd a touch warmer october this year, so about 7 maybe 8 weeks of growth.

Radish is off the menu. This is my backyard plot. Wife absolutely hated the smell. Might give chicory a try though. I have shale outcrops here n there. I'm wondering how deep I can go on my property. Same goes for my apple trees. Place was an old orchard.

 

[jsasker007]

Depending on the size of the area maybe a single shank ripper? Doesn't really turn the soil over just breaks through but takes some horse power. Just a thought.

 

[SD51555]

I spread some yellow sweet clover on my new pond clay this summer. We’ll see if that can punch thru.


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[Tree Spud]

Been going on 3 years in my backyard foodplot since tillage was done. Im past the weedy nightmare stage where I need to redo a plot.

However, this year I planted rye labor day weekend. Sprayed about a week ahead. Spread rye and mowed the existing 3ft tallish rye and weed stand. About 3 passes with the ATV mower.

A week afterwards I finished up my drainage trench is the yard about 50 yards away. I used the soil from the lawn to fill up the stump holes from the old orchard trees removed maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Spread rye on them, no fertilizer or lime. The rye in the stump hole area grew twice as tall. A light amount of lime and fertilzer was applied to the new trench area. That grew 3 times as high and was planted a week or two later.

Thinking I have compaction issues. Debating buying a used baretto commercial rototiller tomorrow. Rototilling a 1/3 of the plot every year. It's about a 1/2 acre spot, once I opening it up a touch more. Walk behind tiller, but 13hp 20 inch width. Does about an acre every 3 hours.

Apple trees are in the same soil. Where I amended the soil with lighter peat moss and/or potting soil, the trees did that much better.

I will add pictures tomorrow.

I am curious ...

Why not plant some sorghum sudan grass, make 2 cuttings of it in the summer (it is a grass and will regrow). Then deep till to break up compaction while adding the OM in the process?

I know some are against tilling, but planting rye, chicory, etc. with deep roots will take many years to add OM and break up compaction.

 

[bigboreblr]

Got to look at the sudan grass. Definitely building a big crop of orangic matter and spiinning it in is the plan.

Can Sudan be boradcasted? Going back to dutch white is an option too. Sudan grow tall? Loooking to make a seclusion barrier this upcoming year. That will be my expansion of the plot towards te east. Let the deer get a bit of privacy from me coming home around 430pm, and my inlaws is like an airport from 4-6pm. 3 folks working coming home and 2 sometimes 3 people picking up kids. Mother-in-law watches a few kids. One of them's parents does about 2500 acres of crops though.

Wht do you recommend far as lime goes? Spread some before the snow? I got about 6 to 8 bags of lime, bec close to a 1/2 ton / acre. Powdered dolomite. Spread that now, then spread more before turning soil. Will also spread about 8 yards of spruce wood chips in the plot. Early summer I have a bag of ammonium sulfate Ill spread in too get the rye or sudan running hard and to supplelment the rooting carbon.

Probably for fall get more lime to add another 1/2 ton /acre to it. Anything I till will get around 200lbs of 6-24-24 / acre.

I may turn the entire plot, I might work in annual rotations like 1/3 or 1/2 one year. Maybe do one kind of seed in the tilled soil, and then just rye / turnips in the untouch rest.

Far s trees go, I have about a dozen bags of potting soil, 3 bricks of peat moss, about 2 wheelbarrow loads of homemade kitchen scrap compost, a mound of leaves, and about 3 wheelbarrows full of garden leftovers like dead tomato and pepper plants. Probably do a 6ft diameter 3ft deep hole, mix in some lime and 6-24-24 with it too. Got about 10 trees on order for the house. Will prep for the spruce trees too, but in smaller sized holes.

Really want to be done with intensive watering next year. Don't mind a nursery for gift trees or at my hunting locations Just don't want to walk all over a few acrs with a garden hose half the summer.

See how the ground is at camp this weekend. Thinking of bringing home a dozen to twenty srpuce seedlings.