Hardwood saplings?

[Soggy McBottom]

I'm going to be opening the canopy up on my small farm in N KY. My plan is to leave most of the Cherry and Oaks alone and kill or knock down enough of the other trees to achieve about 70-80% sunlight hitting the ground. The bigger trees should be easy enough. I'll divide them into 3 categories - Flush cut - Hing cut - Hack & squirt.

The problem I see is with all of the hardwood saplings that run through the property. I'm not sure what the best way to kill them is? Most are pretty tall so spraying herbicide will be tough. Any recommendations?

 

[swat1018]

Why do you want to kill all of the saplings? Deer like the early successional growth for food and cover. I would be hesitant to go in and wipe out everything but a few scattered large hardwoods, without a forest plan from a forester. What is your goal by doing this, what you will get with sunlight on the forest floor is a new flush of saplings, which may not be as desirable as your hardwood saplings.

 

[Soggy McBottom]

I agree that deer like early successional growth but most of the saplings are too tall for the deer to reach. My hope is that once the sun hits the ground a variety of native grasses and shrubs will fill in. I'll should also get stump sprouts from the hinge and flush cuts. The land needs more diversity.

 

[Livesintrees]

Don’t overlook those saplings for hinge cuts. They are the easiest and fastest to work with. A good hand saw and you hinge a pretty damn good area quickly. One swipe with my silky and I can grab em and pull em right over and he vast majority survive. You could always cut some out to “thin” them a bit. The sunlight you get from what larger trees you take down will do the rest.

First decide what you want the area to be then plan accordingly. If it’s a bedding area (I assume so bc you are talking hinge cuts in the hardwoods) then I’d say remove some trees to let sunlight in (I take them for firewood) and use the tops to create brush piles. Then start hinge cutting your perimeter or whatever your desired result is. I like the saplings to either hinge or moreso when I hinge a larger tree onto them it softens the fall and bends them over. Two birds with one stone

 

[Bill]

First decide what you want the area to be then plan accordingly.

Very good advice!
Once you cut a tree, you can't put it back. I've cut and hinged 100's.
People probably get tired of hearing me say this but I'm going to say it anyway.

Remember a knee high hinge cut makes a blockade. A shoulder high cut creates bedding. They don't interchange well and there is no do over.

 

[ruskbucks]

At least from the picture your woods looks like it is coming in like it should. It looks like you have a good amount of trees. Does'nt look like a park. I had my woods logged 3 years ago and they did some clear cuts between 1/2 acre and 2 1/2 acres. The areas that were hardwoods are coming back very slow. There isn't much for grass or shrubs coming in to much, mostly just small hardwoods I'm good with it cause there are a lot of oak seedling finally that have a chance to make it, but it is open. Now the areas that were clear cut in the lower areas and were aspen where are coming back awesome. The low somewhat swampy areas came back with shrubs and grass about 5ft tall. The deer love these areas and they became some of our best hunting spots. The aspen clear cuts are so thick you cant hardly walk thru them. I would just take caution if you cut the hardwoods and expect it to come in super thick. It might just end up more open or come back just like you have.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I offer the below for your consideration as your desired outcome might not be exactly what you get in the end.

8 years ago we initiated a TSI plan with the primary goal of improving the timber quality, species mix, and longterm value (both financial and wildlife). Crop trees are oak (white, red, cherrybark, nuttall), poplar, black cherry, loblolly and shortleaf pine, and the occasional sweetgum. We sought out these species with good form, considered their position in the stand, spacing, and released based on touching crowns.

We took a hybrid approach with the competing junk/undesirable trees: felled, girdled, basal spray, and hack'n squirt. Chemical applications work really well for smooth/thin bark trees. It takes a few years but the remaining crop trees really responded well and jumped up in height and out in crown. Here's the kicker: a hardwood stand can actually shade out understory relatively quickly if it's thinned and this might not be what you're seeking. The remaining crop trees go into high gear when space, water, sunlight, and nutrient resources are made available.

You might get a little new vegetation and sprouts when the canopy is first opened up but it won't last long at all.

 

[blueKYstream]

Interesting enough, I'm located near where you are by the sound of it. If the saplings aren't too thick, using a brush cutter blade on your trimmer is a great option for cutting them. Perhaps a fire might work? Depending on the species, you could girdle them to kill them.

 

[Soggy McBottom]

I offer the below for your consideration as your desired outcome might not be exactly what you get in the end.

8 years ago we initiated a TSI plan with the primary goal of improving the timber quality, species mix, and longterm value (both financial and wildlife). Crop trees are oak (white, red, cherrybark, nuttall), poplar, black cherry, loblolly and shortleaf pine, and the occasional sweetgum. We sought out these species with good form, considered their position in the stand, spacing, and released based on touching crowns.

We took a hybrid approach with the competing junk/undesirable trees: felled, girdled, basal spray, and hack'n squirt. Chemical applications work really well for smooth/thin bark trees. It takes a few years but the remaining crop trees really responded well and jumped up in height and out in crown. Here's the kicker: a hardwood stand can actually shade out understory relatively quickly if it's thinned and this might not be what you're seeking. The remaining crop trees go into high gear when space, water, sunlight, and nutrient resources are made available.

You might get a little new vegetation and sprouts when the canopy is first opened up but it won't last long at all.

Thanks, Boll. Your pics look very similar to my land. I plan on opening the canopy up quite a bit. The idea I have (in my head anyway) is to find a tree I want to keep and kill anything around it within 25'. My main priority is to get the sun to the ground.

 

[Soggy McBottom]

Interesting enough, I'm located near where you are by the sound of it. If the saplings aren't too thick, using a brush cutter blade on your trimmer is a great option for cutting them. Perhaps a fire might work? Depending on the species, you could girdle them to kill them.

I actually bought a nice trimmer with that in mind. It was a bit of a pain. Took forever to do a small area. It also left several small stumps all over.

Where are you located? I'm North of Cynthiana.

 

[yoderjac]

I offer the below for your consideration as your desired outcome might not be exactly what you get in the end.

8 years ago we initiated a TSI plan with the primary goal of improving the timber quality, species mix, and longterm value (both financial and wildlife). Crop trees are oak (white, red, cherrybark, nuttall), poplar, black cherry, loblolly and shortleaf pine, and the occasional sweetgum. We sought out these species with good form, considered their position in the stand, spacing, and released based on touching crowns.

We took a hybrid approach with the competing junk/undesirable trees: felled, girdled, basal spray, and hack'n squirt. Chemical applications work really well for smooth/thin bark trees. It takes a few years but the remaining crop trees really responded well and jumped up in height and out in crown. Here's the kicker: a hardwood stand can actually shade out understory relatively quickly if it's thinned and this might not be what you're seeking. The remaining crop trees go into high gear when space, water, sunlight, and nutrient resources are made available.

You might get a little new vegetation and sprouts when the canopy is first opened up but it won't last long at all.

View attachment 22191

Fire can be effective. I think oaks need to be about 5 years old to withstand a good controlled burn.

 

[pinetag14]

I actually bought a nice trimmer with that in mind. It was a bit of a pain. Took forever to do a small area. It also left several small stumps all over.

Where are you located? I'm North of Cynthiana.

What sort of brush cutter blade did you get? I ask because I just used this one to cut 350 yards of trail in about 3 hours over the weekend. I think it does a better job than those multi-bladed things that tend to just hack the tree down like a machete. All of the trees were about the size of the one flagged in the second pic (some a little smaller and some even a little bigger). Just throwing that out there.

 

[Soggy McBottom]

What sort of brush cutter blade did you get? I ask because I just used this one to cut 350 yards of trail in about 3 hours over the weekend. I think it does a better job than those multi-bladed things that tend to just hack the tree down like a machete. All of the trees were about the size of the one flagged in the second pic (some a little smaller and some even a little bigger). Just throwing that out there.

Poulan. I cuts fine but I have acres and acres and it takes to long. I'm guessing I'll have to burn.

 

[blueKYstream]

I actually bought a nice trimmer with that in mind. It was a bit of a pain. Took forever to do a small area. It also left several small stumps all over.

Where are you located? I'm North of Cynthiana.

My property is on the other side of 75 in Owenton. I bought a bunch of different trimmer blades to test out. I haven't yet posted a video on it, but it'll have some cool clips. Any manual option outside of fire is going to be tedious. If you have large swaths to do, renting equipment would be the quickest way to accomplish what you want. It all comes down to time vs $.

 

[Soggy McBottom]

My property is on the other side of 75 in Owenton. I bought a bunch of different trimmer blades to test out. I haven't yet posted a video on it, but it'll have some cool clips. Any manual option outside of fire is going to be tedious. If you have large swaths to do, renting equipment would be the quickest way to accomplish what you want. It all comes down to time vs $.

Looks like you have some good info on your Youtube channel. I just subscribed

 

[blueKYstream]

Looks like you have some good info on your Youtube channel. I just subscribed

I appreciate that! Do you have any sense yet on which way you think you want to go? I admit that the brushcutter is tough on things like Russian Autumn Olive with so many branches and thorns, but so too is a chainsaw. I was poked and pricked all over last week doing some of that! For saplings like cedars and inch or two thick brush it's the best way (minus equipment). I ran a bulldozer over a field and invariably the first thing to pop up everywhere was black locust! The brushcutter made quick work of those, but I did have to spray them.

 

[John-W-WI]

I just subscribed

2x

 

[Soggy McBottom]

I appreciate that! Do you have any sense yet on which way you think you want to go? I admit that the brushcutter is tough on things like Russian Autumn Olive with so many branches and thorns, but so too is a chainsaw. I was poked and pricked all over last week doing some of that! For saplings like cedars and inch or two thick brush it's the best way (minus equipment). I ran a bulldozer over a field and invariably the first thing to pop up everywhere was black locust! The brushcutter made quick work of those, but I did have to spray them.

I'm going to look into burning. I've got a lot to learn before I drop a match. That may have to wait until next year. I think I'll concentrate on killing the cedar thicket then "clear cutting" some pockets in sections I'd like bedding areas. I'm still working on an overall plan at the moment. I don't want to do anything until I get that nailed down.

 

[buckdeer1]

I would say the question does a deer really back under a shoulder high hinge cut or would they prefer a backdrop to be up against?The deer I see bed against a fallen log or hinge cut tree that breaks up their outline