Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
When is "early spring?"
When they're budding?
Pre-budding? (December's pre budding too)
When they're budding?
Pre-budding? (December's pre budding too)
"Hack and squirt doesn't work in early spring."
- Thread starter Electrodigical
- Start date
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
How about after the maple syrup guys start out doing their thing. Around here that is when the frost is going outta the ground
You wanna hack and squirt a maple that time. Good luck
You wanna hack and squirt a maple that time. Good luck
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’ve done a ton of girdle and squirt in late winter and spring and every single tree died.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
Sap is generally flowing up from the roots during the spring. Hack and squirt is generally less effective because the herbicide can be pushed out of the hack by the sap flow and it never has a chance to kill the tree.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
So I asked my forester about this and typically it depends on sap flow and tree species. Also the chemical being used.
I’ve used almost exclusively basal bark spraying for TOH and it roasts it. But I’ve killed it with hack/squirt and gly (in June).
I’ve used almost exclusively basal bark spraying for TOH and it roasts it. But I’ve killed it with hack/squirt and gly (in June).
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I'm Relatively new to doing this kind of habitat work. I think you have to wait until the buds turn into mature looking leaves. Guessing early / mid may.
I did some drill n fill on mature trees very end of febuary or very early march. Was a cold snap. 3/8" paddle bit aiming at a steep angle alongside the side of the tree and a little down. A blind ole deep enough to get towards the cambrium again, but not out again. Whenre you think the bit ended up to drill next to that until you get around.
Triclopyr n diesel. Cant get that in NY? Can use gly n 2,4D. Tordon RTU can be bought in NY, the green one.
Is there any firewood value to killing a tree in the winter / early may, then cutting down the tree in september? At camp cutting live trees is not allowed, but not complained about either by the land manager If it's a couple for firewood. Just doesn't want to see downed trees laying there for months.
Not sure if it's rough on the chainsaw blade (dry), or wood starts to rot a bit from not having a place to dry out a few feet away. Used to cut down maple trees at home in december - febuary and chunk them into 6-8ft lengths to let them dry. Also cut down the high branches so the deer can eat almost all the buds in the winter.
I did some drill n fill on mature trees very end of febuary or very early march. Was a cold snap. 3/8" paddle bit aiming at a steep angle alongside the side of the tree and a little down. A blind ole deep enough to get towards the cambrium again, but not out again. Whenre you think the bit ended up to drill next to that until you get around.
Triclopyr n diesel. Cant get that in NY? Can use gly n 2,4D. Tordon RTU can be bought in NY, the green one.
Is there any firewood value to killing a tree in the winter / early may, then cutting down the tree in september? At camp cutting live trees is not allowed, but not complained about either by the land manager If it's a couple for firewood. Just doesn't want to see downed trees laying there for months.
Not sure if it's rough on the chainsaw blade (dry), or wood starts to rot a bit from not having a place to dry out a few feet away. Used to cut down maple trees at home in december - febuary and chunk them into 6-8ft lengths to let them dry. Also cut down the high branches so the deer can eat almost all the buds in the winter.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Again that’s theoretical. Girdle with a small chainsaw. Add the Harper cocktail. Dead tree.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
You could spray magic bubbles into the cut of a girdled tree and it would still be a dead tree. Doesn't mean it was magic bubbles that killed the tree.
Again, later summer and early fall is the best time to do hack and squirt, except for the birch family. They run sap upwards in the fall, and that technique is then less effective.
Anybody trying to kill phragmites has experienced how tough it it to kill with gly in spring and summer. Why? Sap flow. It kills way better in later summer when the sap is not flowing up. That's not theory...that's the research and the science of the physiology of sap and nutrient flow spring vs. summer vs, fall.
Again, later summer and early fall is the best time to do hack and squirt, except for the birch family. They run sap upwards in the fall, and that technique is then less effective.
Anybody trying to kill phragmites has experienced how tough it it to kill with gly in spring and summer. Why? Sap flow. It kills way better in later summer when the sap is not flowing up. That's not theory...that's the research and the science of the physiology of sap and nutrient flow spring vs. summer vs, fall.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
That’s why you don’t use gly but the Harper cocktail.
This isn’t something I invented. There is great data that shows the death rate of simple girdle vs girdle and squirt.
This isn’t something I invented. There is great data that shows the death rate of simple girdle vs girdle and squirt.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
harper cocktail?
Think it was 2 parils ago, I girdled a few mature birches at camp and triclopyr n diesel. Trees seemed like they didnt miss a beat that year.
Girdle n plain diesel in the summer kills alot of stuff.
Think it was 2 parils ago, I girdled a few mature birches at camp and triclopyr n diesel. Trees seemed like they didnt miss a beat that year.
Girdle n plain diesel in the summer kills alot of stuff.
BenA
5 year old buck +
Here's a link to the FSI publication by Dr. Harper. https://utia.tennessee.edu/publications/wp-content/uploads/sites/269/2023/10/PB1885.pdf
He has his formula in there which is:
"I prefer a mixture of triclopyr and imazapyr. I typically use Garlon 3A (50 percent), water (40 percent) and Arsenal AC (10 percent), mixed in that order by volume. I use this mixture because various herbicides are weak on various tree species."
He also says, "Trees can be treated at any time of year, and treatment is equally effective at all times, except early spring when some species, such as maples, may have actively flowing sap. In those instances, when the tree is girdled, the sap can flow so heavily from the wound that the herbicide is washed out."
He has his formula in there which is:
"I prefer a mixture of triclopyr and imazapyr. I typically use Garlon 3A (50 percent), water (40 percent) and Arsenal AC (10 percent), mixed in that order by volume. I use this mixture because various herbicides are weak on various tree species."
He also says, "Trees can be treated at any time of year, and treatment is equally effective at all times, except early spring when some species, such as maples, may have actively flowing sap. In those instances, when the tree is girdled, the sap can flow so heavily from the wound that the herbicide is washed out."
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I'm looking at tens of thousands of 2 to 3" trees (if not more). A section maybe 45 yards wide by 200 yards long. So dense it's tough to get through in spots, so girdling isn't going to work and basal bark spray would cost a fortune. Solid canopy so nothing grows on the ground, and they're all too tall to browse. A forestry mulcher is what's really needed, but that will never happen. If I had money for that, there's more important spots to do it.
So in the middle of that mess, I planned on killing some patches. Spend one squirt bottle's worth of time on it every trip. Kill 30-40' around blobs that could get some sun and get something growing on the ground. Little sheltered spots of green.
I'll be there one day this weekend, but don't want to waste time and effort if it's going to fail.
In the fall I used straight gly with a dash of imazapyr, worked well then. Can't get triclopyr amine in my state.
So in the middle of that mess, I planned on killing some patches. Spend one squirt bottle's worth of time on it every trip. Kill 30-40' around blobs that could get some sun and get something growing on the ground. Little sheltered spots of green.
I'll be there one day this weekend, but don't want to waste time and effort if it's going to fail.
In the fall I used straight gly with a dash of imazapyr, worked well then. Can't get triclopyr amine in my state.
BenA
5 year old buck +
It's species dependent. What species are you trying to kill?
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
A drone sprayer would be great for that spot. A couple of hundred bucks plus cost of herbicide would knock that out. Do it when trees in full bloom.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I use an electric small chainsaw to girdle. It is quicker and easier than using a hatchet.
For sure. My drone guy charges min $750 for half day - plus chemical. It would take about 15 min to spray that. I would get some other stuff lined up to spray that day to get my money’s worth
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I had started building spray boom last year to attach to my "truck". There's a trail up one side, my plan was to drive the trail and spray out as far out as I could anyway. Figured I could easy get 20-25 feet.
Good thing I didn't get too far making it. Next time there I came to the realization that these "sapling", that in my head were all 8-12 feet tall, were CONSIDERABLY taller than that in reality and that it would never work. That's been a big problem for me, I still picture things the way they WERE for most of my life. The current state just won't sink in.
All maples trees.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Another benefit of drone is if he has his license you can get triclopyr. That with a whiff of imazapyr would kill all the trees and cause a flush of native grass and forb growth in the area.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Nice idea, doesn't fit with reality. ($$)
