Habitat mistakes

[MN Slick]

My biggest mistake was buying farms with people who don't care about improving them. They do little to no work and invest little to no $ yet they get all the benefit of what I do..

 

[MoLandOwner]

My biggest mistake was buying farms with people who don't care about improving them. They do little to no work and invest little to no $ yet they get all the benefit of what I do..

Make them work or they don't hunt is my motto!

I day of work, one day of hunt!;)

 

[scott44]

I see a lot of my mistakes and others have made them also, somehow I thought that I was the only one who did these.

I think my mistakes have all been mentioned. But repetition is often a good educational tool. :)

My number one recommendation to someone just starting out is this................ Have a plan don't just start doing because you feel you should do something, you are wasting time and $$ going back and fixing it.

Completely, 100% without hesitation, ignore anything that comes out of your farmer neighbors mouth. Farmers don't know Jack about deer.
The only exception might be one that cover crops.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Joe, now the question becomes, what do you do about it? You have a 5 acre plot you can't access, do you make changes?

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt, as a ton of variables go into whether this may be a good idea or not, but the first thing that popped into head when reading about the centrally located, 5 acre food plot that can't safely be hunted was...."dang, that stings." Second thought, all else being equal, you can't come up with a much better place to transform into bedding...Just a thought, and the location may stink...I really would have to see the topo and general area to say either way, but I'd sure be looking into that.

 

[sandbur]

I think my mistakes have all been mentioned. But repetition is often a good educational tool. :)

Wish I wouldn't have listened to the NRCS guys opinion on my first native grass planting. That mistake got me 6 acres of bluestem and Indian grass that is usually flat by the end of Nov and usually void of deer all year long. (I need to nuke that field). On the brite side that mistake made me throw the NRCS foresters plan in the trash.

Wish I would have understood the hinge cut properly before going hog wild in an area. I made low cuts hoping for bedding and got blockades instead. The bright side is going back and cutting trails through it directs movement.

Wish I would have had a better handle on planting live stake cuttings before jamming 5000 of them into an untreated grass/weed field and walking away. I think 2 are alive today and the field is finally regenerating naturally.

I should never have planted those 20'something apple trees and not protected them from the deer and then the dreaded Vole!

I should have passed on my farm and bought one with better topography and stand access. If I wasn't surrounded by huge blocks of managed land attracting and holding mature deer would be very difficult.

My number one recommendation to someone just starting out is this................

Completely, 100% without hesitation, ignore anything that comes out of your farmer neighbors mouth. Farmers don't know Jack about deer.
The only exception might be one that cover crops.

You hang with the wrong farmers. I have learned tons of things from my neighbor who is a dairyman and he has also learned form me.
In the beginning, I had more woods/tree/shrub knowledge and he had years of experience with farming our soils. He knows about pH, sprays, equipment, etc .

And you say farmers do not know jack about deer. He rattled in a 200 pound buck last night and killed it. He bow hunted one hour this year-last night.

don't knock farmers...they are my bread and butter in more ways than one.

 

[Bill]

Not knocking farmers in an all around sense. Only in a habitat sense.
MO does it right, certainly dgallow know his stuff.
But when it comes to wildlife habitat I'd bet there are 1 like John to 20 that believe in fence to fence, pasturing the timber and bare dirt in the winter.

 

[Rally1148]

Not looking at access before doing anything else. I'm also somewhat handicapped by half of my land being swamp, but still I should have put a greater importance on access.

 

[Freeborn]

A drive through MN would confirm this. I think you may be conservative in your percentage though...I bet its more like 1 to 1000

Agree with this assessment. The few farmers I know don't like paying taxes on non-productive ground. They also feel that accross the land they own they already have plenty of woods, marsh and grasses.

Maybe we could get farmers to be more inclined to save a few trees if we did not tax them for every square inch of land they own. Back to the old question, what came first, the chicken or the egg.

 

[Freeborn]

Maybe. Couldn't the same thing be said for developers? Farmers already pay the lowest property taxes on their land, should they pay nothing? Why is farm ground that produces something taxed at a lower rate than my unproductive forested land?

A drive through southern MN should give the rest of us an idea of how central MN is going to look in another few decades. I guess that's "progress"

Farmers feed the world and have unbelievably difficult jobs...however, they chose their career like the rest of us...correct?

I don't think so, developers buy parcels that inherit in them is less waste property (non-productiveTrees/Marsh etc.), Inherit in farming is a higher level of waste property that can not be avoided and therefore the desire to minimize it. Minimize the taxes on non-productive land and they won't destroy it.

The tax code is used to incent behavior and in this case lower costs to consumers as taxes are past on to the end consumption point. In this case sustaining a high level of food supply by lowering the cost effects of taxes is a good idea.

The best way to minimize the effects on taxes is to control spending and the best wat to do that, in my opinion, is to increase the productivity of employees.

 

[Rally1148]

The problem isnt thr farmer or the taxes, it's our infrastructure. Costly, inefficient, and overdependent on fossil fuels. Inputs will continue to increase and likewise food costs until we make a significant shift. Big ag (i.e. industrial scale farming) is pushing the earth to its limit, and it's going to be a pretty big crash when a house of cards that large falls

 

[Freeborn]

And the best way to increase productivity of farmers is to eliminate fencerows, wood lots, swamps, and anything else that slows machinery down. Which is why southern MN looks the way it does. Get used to more productive farms and less productive (and prevalent) natural acreage.

Agree, maybe use the tax code, provide a tax credit for farmers to leave woods/marsh based on certain criteria. Similar to CRP. Again, its the chicken and the egg. Why are their taxes on things just because they exist? I understand taxes on productive land but taxes on land just because it exist make no sense other than government needs the chicken, egg or not. I have never liked the concept of property taxes but understand their purpose.

 

[West Branch]

I saw a contract for a RIM easement in South Central MN from 2013 that had a payout of over 6,000 an acre on over 200 acres. Wetland restoration work needed to be done, but there would still be a majority of the money left. The land could probably still be sold for hunting after that for at least $1,000 an acre, maybe up to $1,500. I did not see the actual property, just know the general area of where it was at. Nuts that the state is paying that much, not sure what the solution is.

The problem isnt thr farmer or the taxes, it's our infrastructure. Costly, inefficient, and overdependent on fossil fuels. Inputs will continue to increase and likewise food costs until we make a significant shift. Big ag (i.e. industrial scale farming) is pushing the earth to its limit, and it's going to be a pretty big crash when a house of cards that large falls

What kind of crash are you thinking will happen?

 

[Rally1148]

I saw a contract for a RIM easement in South Central MN from 2013 that had a payout of over 6,000 an acre on over 200 acres. Wetland restoration work needed to be done, but there would still be a majority of the money left. The land could probably still be sold for hunting after that for at least $1,000 an acre, maybe up to $1,500. I did not see the actual property, just know the general area of where it was at. Nuts that the state is paying that much, not sure what the solution is.




What kind of crash are you thinking will happen?

Prices will go up, keeping food off of tables and a lot of farmers will be forced out of work.

 

[Rally1148]

The government won't let it happen.

At this point they won't, but long term I'm not sure if we'll have the ability to control it. I sure hope we do!

 

[Rally1148]

^^^You're looking way longer term than I'll need to be concerned about ;) Maybe a concern for your kids or grandkids

Fair enough! :)

 

[MoLandOwner]

Prices will go up, keeping food off of tables and a lot of farmers will be forced out of work.

Nope, the gov knows full belly's mean no revolting. That is why when prices are down below cost of production, farmers get paid to plant anyway. Its called a subsidy! There will always be farmers planting every acre.

 

[MoLandOwner]

Not knocking farmers in an all around sense. Only in a habitat sense.
MO does it right, certainly dgallow know his stuff.
But when it comes to wildlife habitat I'd bet there are 1 like John to 20 that believe in fence to fence, pasturing the timber and bare dirt in the winter.

I can afford to do it, I triple dipped on my income for 25 years with 3 different jobs for income. If I lose $10K trying some different types of cover crops or Notilling, I can still survive. A farmer just relying on his farm income to live, does not have the opportunity financially to try something new. That is one reason we have targeted the SWCD to implement cost sharing programs for some farmers to try cover crops, and to help purchase notill equipment. I will gladly share my tax dollars to guys that want to try to conserve our soil, not tear out every fence line and tree grove, and not pollute the water with over fertilizing to grow a crop. I hope when you rethink your statement, and I think you have, you will realize there are guys that are changing, but it is a lot slower than I would like. Oh Well!

 

[MoLandOwner]

One of the things I learned a long the way, was the power of soil testing. I do speak at seminars a little about getting farmers to soil test the fence rows between fields that have not been plowed for 50 or 100 years. Then soil test the field next to the same fence row they just tested. Farmers are in shock when they see how must OM they have stripped away from their soil. And why they have to use terrible amounts of commercial fertilizer because of it. It may not get them to change their farming practices, but it gets them thinking, and that is all we can ask for to start.

 

[rocksnstumps]

One of the things I learned a long the way, was the power of soil testing. I do speak at seminars a little about getting farmers to soil test the fence rows between fields that have not been plowed for 50 or 100 years. Then soil test the field next to the same fence row they just tested. Farmers are in shock when they see how must OM they have stripped away from their soil. And why they have to use terrible amounts of commercial fertilizer because of it. It may not get them to change their farming practices, but it gets them thinking, and that is all we can ask for to start.

The advice above really reminds me of the first time I visited a friend's farm that had been his grandfather's. Right behind the barn and chicken coop was the edge of the barnyard/lawn that had steep drop of over 10" to the field. Obvious that's where the plow edge was for years and years. The field itself was fairly level looking, but everything was lower by almost a foot from the 1 acre postage stamp around the house and outbuildings. That field is mostly sand now instead of the sandy loam that area is supposed to have. My buddy can't even hardly grow a crappy food plot of corn on the one end much less try to farm it for real. That soil got worked to death and probably lots washed/blew away.

 

[*Hawaii5joe*]

Last year we were on a roll admitting some of our past mistakes. Lots of good info. so far. Any chance any of the guys from QDMA forum would like to share something they have learned the hard way?