Growing fruit trees faster?

Catscratch

5 year old buck +
I've always read to not over fertilize fruit trees. I understand that over fertilizing a tree can kill it but why not push it to get as big as possible as quick as possible? I would gladly not have a single fruit for 6yrs if it meant that on the 6th year the tree was big and produced a couple hundred pounds instead of half the size and half the fruit. I have a handful of seedling persimmons I planted 2 years ago. They are barely bigger than when I planted them. I'm gettin impatient. Want to get some size to them and maybe have some trees sitting there in a couple of years.
 
Besides possibly burning young roots, sometimes they grow to fast and branches and trunk can be thin then break from wind or fruit load when older. Branches can also get weepy looking from being to weak.

I totally understand wanting trees to get bigger fast, I’m guilty of the same thing. Just fertilizing a little around the drip line in early spring at bud break once the tree is two or three years old has worked best for me. I’ve even skipped years once trees get a little size.

The fertilizer thing is a fine line, easy to over fertilize.

I’ve had a couple fruit trees that were just slow starters even with fertilizer, they finally took off and look great now but it took years longer than others planted same time.
 
Will fertilizing help the tree produce more fruit?
 
I've always read to not over fertilize fruit trees. I understand that over fertilizing a tree can kill it but why not push it to get as big as possible as quick as possible? I would gladly not have a single fruit for 6yrs if it meant that on the 6th year the tree was big and produced a couple hundred pounds instead of half the size and half the fruit. I have a handful of seedling persimmons I planted 2 years ago. They are barely bigger than when I planted them. I'm gettin impatient. Want to get some size to them and maybe have some trees sitting there in a couple of years.
I have not found persimmons to respond much to fertilization. They are a native tree here. They are slow growers. I've seen no evidence that special care for a persimmon produces fruit any faster or in more abundance once it is old enough to produce fruit. I believe there are hormonal changes a tree goes through when it begins to produce fruit. I'm not sure if a faster growing tree changes that hormonal balance.

Impatience and persimmons don't mix well. The only exception I've found to that is field grafting native trees an inch or two in diameter. I think it is the very well established root system combined with the hormonal state of the scion from a fruit producing tree that allows them to produce fruit in the third leaf after grafting.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Will fertilizing help the tree produce more fruit?

I think it depends on the kind of tree. I think fertilizing is one of the factors that increases production in trees like apples (along with pruning, spraying, etc.) On the other hand, there was some speculation a number of years back that suggested fertilizing oaks would make the acorns "sweeter" and increase production. I believe there was a study that debunked that. With my American persimmons, personally, I've seen little evidence that fertilizing helps at all. I'm not sure if that is just true in my case or if it applies generally.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I've always been told that nitrogen fert caused more vegetative growth and less fruit production in fruit trees. My idea was to sacrifice fruit production for the sake of bigger trees in a certain period of time. Then back off and let them shift to fruit production. If it just makes the trees spindly and weak then it's not much of a gain. I did that with a sawtooth in the yard once. Pruned all it's limbs so that it would get tall and shade the house quicker. Went outside one day and it was bent over all the way so that the top was touching the ground. Staked it up bit it took a couple yrs for it to thicken up the trunk so it could stand on It's own. No net gain.

The study on oaks that I've read said releasing oaks was more beneficial to acorn production than fert.

Thanks for the replies guys!
 
That was what I have thought as well. Nitrogen causes vegetative growth, and not so much fruit, talking apple trees here. But I have also read to fertilize and the fruit will grow bigger. So I don’t know.
 
I would suggest checking your soil PH. The suggested range for apples is 5.0 - 6.5 and for pears 6.0 - 7.5. Of course, they will survive and even produce outside those ranges, but it is always better to be within the optimum PH range.
 
Feeding your soil would be more beneficial than fertilizing your tree. When people talk about, or buy fertilizer, it's usually just NPK, but there are several other nutrients trees need to thrive. I would look to add 2 to 3 inches of compost out to about a foot outside your drip line, and let the soil food web go to work.

Here's a link to an article discussing nutrient requirements for apple trees.
 
Add phosphorous around your trees, that will help promote strong root growth which will lead to better growth.
 
Nitrogen increases tender, vegetative growth. Tender, vegetative growth is more susceptible to fireblight.
 
Begining of the spring I bought 25 SLN bareroots. I meant to rototill a big circle on the 10 permanent ones, however my rototiller was stuck in Reverse. I hand dug and mixed up the trees with some peat moss, garden soil, lime, and some agriform tablets. Got those 10 in, Then, I got the rototiller to get into gear before I made the nursery for the others. I ammended the soil well. I rototilled, then dug out the easy stuff and did that 2 more times. Top few inches moderate clay, deeper down more orange clay. I weed matted and mulched. Just about daily I was watering the nursery trees. I pruned my old apples and toringo crabs and put the shoots in the nursery in the spring, hoping they'd grow roots. The crabapples were close to making it, Went away for a few days and had the kids water them, came back those were dead.

The nursery anty bareroots litterally made an extra foot.

A few things, if you can prep a good sized spot like that and dont worry about moles, go for it. Making a larger weedmat area, like a 6-8ft circle than a 3x3 spot. WATER! My trees are at my home, so I can water them every 3 or 4 days, which I did with the permanent ones.

This fall I mixed thigs up. I bought some B118 crabapples, maybe M7 rootstok mght make fruit sooner. Permissions are a long term game. Add some short term game. Watering is the big difference. Put some closer to water, or invest in an irrigation system. Slow drip.

MY local fruit farm down the road said his best investments were 2 things. A quality subsoiler to make the roots grow down quicker and modern irrigation. His opinion is not only water the trees to get nutrients, but his timers are set to cool down his root system at peak heat of the day.

Remember fertilizer is much more than Nitrogen phosphourus and potassium. There boron, magnesium, selenium. Also, what do you have to keep the fertilizer where it is Cation exchange.

Soil test helps alot too.

Only work on what you can work on well. However, time s ticking too. IF you cant cage, mulch, or provide water whe they really need it then cut down your scope.

Also, get a year ahead. Many orchards offer larger trees, but you got to pick them up yourself.
 
Interesting topic. I skipped fertilizer last year because it was so expensive but I plan to get back to it this year. I remembered that I saved this article. It’s older but adds to the conversation. (See # 6).

 
Trees that are over fertilized produce thinner/weaker wood. Bud spacing is farther apart, reducing fruit density. Trees that are in a vigorous vegetative state do not produce as much fruit. The fruiting process is started as a tree "matures" not while a tree thinks it is in a early developmental stage. Fruit that is produced on over fertilized trees is of lesser quality as well (though that may not be of any concern with a wildlife tree)
 
I think it is dependent on environmental factors. If there is good soil and adequate nutrition, fertilizing is unlikely to help. If the pH is low, lime helps. If the soil is poor in nutrients, fertilizer will help.

I agree with those who recommend improving the soil biology and overall nutrient density. This is what I try to do long term. But for the first few years, my trees get lime and fertilizer. I don't do a soil test for each tree location, so I just put down what I think is a reasonable amount.

I prune ALL my trees when they are young. This is based on advice from people on this forum, and I have found it to be at least as important as fertilizing. I prune in the winter to control the shape of the trees. When they get near the size and shape I want them to be, I start pruning in summer.

Recently I have started testing the importance of weed mats and mulch, and so far I'm convinced this is the third piece of the pie for caring for young trees.

To expand on the fertilizer aspect a little more, I do it because the nurseries do it. They cram the little trees with fertilizer to make them grow faster. It works. And somehow they get them to produce fruit earlier too. I have a Lord Lambourne on Antonovka that fruited the year after I planted it. It was about 7 feet tall when I bought from a garden center as a potted tree. The growing medium was a soil blend of mostly peat moss, and it was full of slow-release fertilizer capsules. I kept fertilizing it and pruning it, and it's about 12 feet tall now even after some extensive deer damage.
 
Cat, is summer heat or drought a limiting factor on your tree growth?

Second question, what is your natural soil pH?

I am thinking of apples of course. Perhaps you were considering other trees.

In my light soil, prairie type environment, I only find wild crabs near waterways. Very occasionally an apple sized fruit.


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I think bare root trees and or even potted ones, are so shocked that the first few years they are just trying to keep alive.

Then we get impatient……..and fry them with too much love/ fertilizer. Especially nitrogen.

Phosphorous, Iron, sulfur if pH is to high is what I address in the first few years.

Year three is when one should get a comprehensive fertilizer program.

A chain is only strong as it’s weakest link. So micro nutrition, competition, pH, H2O needs are as important as the big three in fertilizer.
 
What is everyone’s thoughts on putting ash down from a wood stove? I have read it helps a lot, and increases PH, but then I read not to use wood ash. The internet is so confusing when you try to research stuff.
 
What is everyone’s thoughts on putting ash down from a wood stove? I have read it helps a lot, and increases PH, but then I read not to use wood ash. The internet is so confusing when you try to research stuff.

I do, I spread about a cup or so around the outer root ring in the winter. Have seen no detrimental effects. Potash is potassium and helps food transmission in tree and can help with fruiting.
 
What is everyone’s thoughts on putting ash down from a wood stove? I have read it helps a lot, and increases PH, but then I read not to use wood ash. The internet is so confusing when you try to research stuff.
I wish I could do all my liming with woodash instead. Don't be afraid to do that.

Found ths article, guess wood ash is water soluable and doesnt take a few months to raise pH

 
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