Grafting rootstock vs. bareroot

[Diesel5610]

I have 15 rootstocks from Blue Hill coming in the spring. I also have a dozen or so root suckers from wild trees at deer camp that I plan to dig up and graft onto.

Since I am new to grafting, I had initially planned to graft then plant in my garden the first year so I can baby them. Then transplant the following spring at the hunting property. But your advice is to put them in their final destination right off the bat?

Bench graft them, put them in a pot and baby them and then plant them that first fall after they go for dormant. I do 6-15 every year and the pots are next to my driveway, I give them a look every day on my way to my truck and they get plenty of attention. Seeing them every day is good for me and the trees do great.

 

[bigboreblr]

Not sure if it's lucky or not, but if I put my little trees in the driveway, they'd be nibbled stumps in 3 days. I put 25 pots of wild plum from the NYSDEC nursery sale in the middle of my 5x10 utility trailer. They started eating them in there. I find it difficult to believe the deer could eat them without setting foot on the trailer.

I gave 3 antonovka rootstocks ungrafted to a fiend at camp, left it out the 1st night and deer wrecked one of them.

Diesel, The NYSDEC 2024 seedling sale flyer is up. Probably just doing one 25 packet of white spruce as I normally do at minimum.

 

[Angus 1895]

We built a fenced in nursery. It’s shaded and darn near rabbit proof.

 

[bigboreblr]

Nice setup Angus.

I got your beat on price. I torn down a trampoline. I am using the netting around it as a fence. Makes about a 10x10 space.

Here I think is the 3 gallon ones I ordered last year.

Amazon.com

Every pot has made it ok through year 1. Thinking they'll live around 4+ years. Little more worried about the larger ones, but will probably order them after the holidays.

 

[Angus 1895]

I am ignorant about root pruning?

I think the tap root and the trees ability to find water deeper is important.

But perhaps not being root bound prevents the tree from languishing in its hole dug for it?

 

[bigboreblr]

The root maker pots weren't aimed at you. Someone else asked about it in the thread.

I did buy a overpriced freedom in a pot, root bound as heck. Was a 9ft tall tree in a pot like yours. Survived this year and maybe put a foot of growth on. did alot of cutting in that one, maybe she need more.

I did plum bareroot in smaller pots. some I opened up some I did not, Weren't too much of a mess.

 

[Telemark]

I am ignorant about root pruning?

I think the tap root and the trees ability to find water deeper is important.

But perhaps not being root bound prevents the tree from languishing in its hole dug for it?

Trees grafted on a clonal rootstock won't have a taproot. Only seedlings have taproots.

 

[Angus 1895]

I

Trees grafted on a clonal rootstock won't have a taproot. Only seedlings have taproots.

If a tree loses a taproot, do other roots go deep in the earth?

 

[cavey]

I

If a tree loses a taproot, do other roots go deep in the earth?

Thats the mystery ... you would have to dig one up to check and its pretty rare for me to re-dig my trees once they are in their final spots. I heel mine in in 16" deep pots with open bottoms and have found that the root stocks do seem to shoot down what seems to be a tap root or two. I have to dig deep to cut those roots when re transplanting . So I would answer "yes, maybe, and no?" all in one. I believe most will tell you once you severe the main tap root it will not grow back.

However Honestly I have to believe some will, to a degree, reach down but most roots only go down so far then spread out to and beyond the drip line ..... that being said,, and as most every tree planted by humans are in one shape or form transplants we would have a lot of dead trees if the tap root was 100% essential. For fruit trees you would have to plant a seed in the spot you wanted and graft to it later or start with very small plants to ensure a pure tap root, I almost always trim my roots before planting and have never worried about the tap root.

Ive wanted to try and plant seedlings in longer/deeper pots - thought of using 4" drain tile cut to 3 foot and put in racks to try and grow some trees then auger a 3 foot hole for them.

I think and Im far from an expert but I think the tap root really helps in the first 5 or so years but then as the size of the root system increases its less important. More important in sandy or super dry ground less important in heavy ground.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I can't speak for all species of trees, but of the ones I am familiar with in a nursery setting a new tap root will form. It's just a matter if enough root material is left after the initial digging to keep it alive while it re-roots.

 

[Skye King]

Thats the mystery ... you would have to dig one up to check and its pretty rare for me to re-dig my trees once they are in their final spots. I heel mine in in 16" deep pots with open bottoms and have found that the root stocks do seem to shoot down what seems to be a tap root or two. I have to dig deep to cut those roots when re transplanting . So I would answer "yes, maybe, and no?" all in one. I believe most will tell you once you severe the main tap root it will not grow back.

However Honestly I have to believe some will, to a degree, reach down but most roots only go down so far then spread out to and beyond the drip line ..... that being said,, and as most every tree planted by humans are in one shape or form transplants we would have a lot of dead trees if the tap root was 100% essential. For fruit trees you would have to plant a seed in the spot you wanted and graft to it later or start with very small plants to ensure a pure tap root, I almost always trim my roots before planting and have never worried about the tap root.

Ive wanted to try and plant seedlings in longer/deeper pots - thought of using 4" drain tile cut to 3 foot and put in racks to try and grow some trees then auger a 3 foot hole for them.

I think and Im far from an expert but I think the tap root really helps in the first 5 or so years but then as the size of the root system increases its less important. More important in sandy or super dry ground less important in heavy ground.

You have some really interesting thoughts there. What about those machines that take a whole tree and transplant it? Don’t hose machines dig down with the fingers and take the tree up with the roots in a dirt ball while severing the tap root?

 

[cavey]

You have some really interesting thoughts there. What about those machines that take a whole tree and transplant it? Don’t hose machines dig down with the fingers and take the tree up with the roots in a dirt ball while severing the tap root?

Yes the tap root almost certainly always gets cut - ripped off. Tap roots to my limited knowledge can very but 4-7 foot Im guessing is common if not more maybe. It would in most cases be all but impossible to capture all the root system of a tree with even a machine, When I transplant fruit trees I always cut back the trees branches to reflect/acknowledge the fact the the transplanted tree is now in root shock and has had a high percentage of its roots cut off - roots that once supported a whole tree - so I reduce the the over all nutrient and water needs by removing a fair amount of growth from the tree just to help,. Seems to work IMO.

All but the most gigantic of tree spade machines cut roots, mostly on the sides and yet most trees survive. Not saying tap roots are no important - I would always want to keep them if it were possible.

 

[bigboreblr]

I've destroyed some tap roots the past year or two, the tree lives. I bought some spruce trees in 2018, and moved them last year. The tree recovers.

I bought some B118 apple trees I need to move this spring. I have moved a pristine on what I think is M111. IT was in the ground for 6 months. Right after planting, I bought a solar pool heater. I had to move it back like 12-15 feet or so.

I grafted kerr on antonovka rootstock. I had the rootstock in the ground in 2022. Moved those trees for grafted B118 and M111's. I put kerr on them and they are in the ground in my nursery. 6 feet away I dug up some apple trees to give as presents to other hunters. Those kerr roots were all over there. You try to dig up a 2 or 3ft diameter hole when transplanting, but this shows how much a tree looses when you transplant. It's important to trim the tree's branches back to match how much root system you have left.

Turkey Creek, I know you dig up an apple tree or two. Whats your method of attack? I'm debating getting the soil wet before uprooting this spring. I got heavier loam clay. I know the more I work those roots loose, the more I am breaking.

 

[Skye King]

We finished planting the trees that I bought from Nativ Nurseries today. All total we planted 24 trees. I guess they are really seedlings. Anyway, we planted 8 of each variety, Mexican plum, common persimmon, and Blac Cherry. Now play the waiting game to see if they take.

 

[KY wild]

Transplanting - Should You Reduce Top Growth?

When a plant is transplanted it seems logical to reduce the top growth to balance the loss of roots, but this is not always good advice. Find out more ...

www.gardenmyths.com

I recently had to move 8 pear trees that I planted that were three years old. I was afraid I would Kill them so I searched Google to see if I should prune the tree back to a whip or maybe just prune lighter. Well to my surprise most of the articles recommended to not remove any branches unless they needed to be removed already. For the most part the experts suggested I should water like it is a seedling and it will take care of itself. Pretty good summary in the article I attached

 

[Skye King]

Transplanting - Should You Reduce Top Growth?

When a plant is transplanted it seems logical to reduce the top growth to balance the loss of roots, but this is not always good advice. Find out more ...

www.gardenmyths.com

I recently had to move 8 pear trees that I planted that were three years old. I was afraid I would Kill them so I searched Google to see if I should prune the tree back to a whip or maybe just prune lighter. Well to my surprise most of the articles recommended to not remove any branches unless they needed to be removed already. For the most part the experts suggested I should water like it is a seedling and it will take care of itself. Pretty good summary in the article I attached

Interesting article.