Sorry... to clarify, it’s not the financial payback, it’s the estimated total carbon emissions break even point. After that point the investment carbon emissions have been offset by non carbon energy generation. I shoulda used different wording.
Global warming
- Thread starter jsasker007
- Start date
Sorry... to clarify, it’s not the financial payback, it’s the estimated total carbon emissions break even point. After that point the investment carbon emissions have been offset by non carbon energy generation. I shoulda used different wording.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
They put up hundreds of the large windmills twenty five miles to the north of here, Blue Creek Wind Farm around ten to fifteen years ago.
It is an unbelievable eyesore to behold, looks like a scene from War of the Worlds. Housing property values within eyesight of them crashed, locals say the houses close to them can't hardly even be sold even though their taxes went up...the windmills throw a shadow on them that is very irritating during sunny days going dark to light over and over and over all day long called light flicker. There is also a droning sound that they make turning that vibrates into houses...between the sound and shadow thing it has made people physically sick.
Whatever Chinese company that makes them wanted to put in more but the county/state blocked the construction of any new ones, no local labor was used to build them. The locals said that their electric prices didn't go down at all and that the power from them is being sent out of state? The wind farm is owned by some company out of Spain.
Bill L is correct it takes over 30K tons of concrete for the footers of each one of those monsters, I think each of the three blades are150' or more in length, the windmills are thirty stories high. The massive ground compaction that all the trucks and equip caused while building them has not been fixed and crushed drain tiles have caused pooling and flooding.
There are signs and billboards all over the area protesting the windmills...but of course the schools and local politicians made money.
It is an unbelievable eyesore to behold, looks like a scene from War of the Worlds. Housing property values within eyesight of them crashed, locals say the houses close to them can't hardly even be sold even though their taxes went up...the windmills throw a shadow on them that is very irritating during sunny days going dark to light over and over and over all day long called light flicker. There is also a droning sound that they make turning that vibrates into houses...between the sound and shadow thing it has made people physically sick.
Whatever Chinese company that makes them wanted to put in more but the county/state blocked the construction of any new ones, no local labor was used to build them. The locals said that their electric prices didn't go down at all and that the power from them is being sent out of state? The wind farm is owned by some company out of Spain.
Bill L is correct it takes over 30K tons of concrete for the footers of each one of those monsters, I think each of the three blades are150' or more in length, the windmills are thirty stories high. The massive ground compaction that all the trucks and equip caused while building them has not been fixed and crushed drain tiles have caused pooling and flooding.
There are signs and billboards all over the area protesting the windmills...but of course the schools and local politicians made money.
Last edited:
From the Department of the Interior:
“To be more exact, wind energy produces around 11 grams of carbon dioxide per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated, Garvin A. Heath, a senior scientist at NREL, and colleagues concluded after reviewing the scientific literature. That’s compared with about 980 g CO2/kWh for coal and roughly 465 g CO2/kWh for natural gas, Heath found.
In other words, coal’s carbon footprint is almost 90 times larger than that of wind. The footprint of natural gas is more than 40 times larger.”
“To be more exact, wind energy produces around 11 grams of carbon dioxide per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated, Garvin A. Heath, a senior scientist at NREL, and colleagues concluded after reviewing the scientific literature. That’s compared with about 980 g CO2/kWh for coal and roughly 465 g CO2/kWh for natural gas, Heath found.
In other words, coal’s carbon footprint is almost 90 times larger than that of wind. The footprint of natural gas is more than 40 times larger.”
If we don’t use energy then we have easy options... once we decide to use energy, and a lot of it, the options get more difficult.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
So you are saying that using oil, natural gas and coal are better options....I agree.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
I dont care what those lieing liars in Washington say. There is no possible way those things recoup their so called "carbon footprint" at any point in their short life spans. When you factor in all aspects of assembly and erection ( he said erection!!!) And then all the maintenance there is no way on gods green earth its possible. These things dont produce near enough power for that.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
After partaking in and reading this thread I am left with a single salient question....there's synthetic meat?
dogghr
5 year old buck +
As I said earlier, I am a fan of wind and solar as an adjunct. But let me try to do some math at which I suck . Before we buy in, we need to do our homework.
First, many don't know that wind farms require a backup, obviously fossil fuel driven at this time. That wind is great when available, but it is not there 100% of the time. Thus for each installed GW of wind, there must be a match of dispatchable GW. Dispatchable referring to a called upon when needed source of electricity. If say, a dispatcher, say Houston, asks for 2 GW of power next month with a .5 GW of reserve, then a coal fired power plant simply asks for a couple hours notice to ramp plant up to capacity.
Now the wind farm response is possible can do that, but no promises as wind is unpredictable. It may be available and it might not be. Wind turbines statistically are productive at about 40 % of the time, resulting from lack of wind, and maintenance requirements. And that matches with the wind farms near me that I drive by. There are great days, but most times at least 25-30% are non functioning at the moment for whatever reasons.
So lets look at some numbers. So if we assume a 40% capacity factor then the number to replace the power plant is 6600x1/.4 which is about 16000 turbines. And that is assuming a typical wind day. And of course that is not the real world. And when the wind picks up again, then need to provide power to replenish the storage. so now the number of turbines is a function of the number of days require upcharging the storage. A battery to store 2 days energy at 2 GW continuous would be about 24 billion dollars. So you see storage is simply impractical for wind in this era.
And we didn't talk of the fossil fuels required for the manufacture and installation and maintenance of wind.
As said, it is an adjunct but to think its cost effective and truly saves the earth is a bit nieve. Coal fired power plants sell energy for about $250/Kwh. Do the math, especially once governtment incentives are removed and private enterprise chooses to bear the cost. For this country to ever become self sufficient again in its manufacturing, then dispatchable power is a definite requirement.
First, many don't know that wind farms require a backup, obviously fossil fuel driven at this time. That wind is great when available, but it is not there 100% of the time. Thus for each installed GW of wind, there must be a match of dispatchable GW. Dispatchable referring to a called upon when needed source of electricity. If say, a dispatcher, say Houston, asks for 2 GW of power next month with a .5 GW of reserve, then a coal fired power plant simply asks for a couple hours notice to ramp plant up to capacity.
Now the wind farm response is possible can do that, but no promises as wind is unpredictable. It may be available and it might not be. Wind turbines statistically are productive at about 40 % of the time, resulting from lack of wind, and maintenance requirements. And that matches with the wind farms near me that I drive by. There are great days, but most times at least 25-30% are non functioning at the moment for whatever reasons.
So lets look at some numbers. So if we assume a 40% capacity factor then the number to replace the power plant is 6600x1/.4 which is about 16000 turbines. And that is assuming a typical wind day. And of course that is not the real world. And when the wind picks up again, then need to provide power to replenish the storage. so now the number of turbines is a function of the number of days require upcharging the storage. A battery to store 2 days energy at 2 GW continuous would be about 24 billion dollars. So you see storage is simply impractical for wind in this era.
And we didn't talk of the fossil fuels required for the manufacture and installation and maintenance of wind.
As said, it is an adjunct but to think its cost effective and truly saves the earth is a bit nieve. Coal fired power plants sell energy for about $250/Kwh. Do the math, especially once governtment incentives are removed and private enterprise chooses to bear the cost. For this country to ever become self sufficient again in its manufacturing, then dispatchable power is a definite requirement.
chummer
5 year old buck +
No. Not in my world.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
apparently...
Seems like something is lost on that tho... Unless I can get some crazy african game on the cheap, I'd prefer to put my animals down myself.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
so you're like the guy at target going into the women's room? You're just going to ignore the truth and believe what you want to believe?
see how I twisted that up on you? I should be a talk show host.
Bill
Administrator
Bill Gates is pushing it. I saw it on the Telly the other night. Pretty gross looking stuff but he was proud of it...
chummer
5 year old buck +
Wait, we can go in the women's room? I need to go back to high school. I could dominate class c girls hoops.
Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
You forgot to mention stray voltage. There was 2 windmills put up a few miles N. of where I live. There are a lot of large dairy farms in our area. The farms close to the windmills saw a loss in production almost immediately. The cause, stray voltage. There was a lawsuit and the windmills were shut down.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
If we could find a flux capacitor and Doc Brown's DeLorean maybe we could drag this message thread back to where farm tractors were introduced for replacing teams of horses and to a time when corn hybrids were being planted for the first time (it took something like 14-years to convince everyone of their superiority). Wouldn't it be fun to hear all the reasons why none of that would work?
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
Apples and oranges comparisons.
Of more value might be the trunk full of cocaine John DeLorean had in the trunk of his DeLorean :)
