Generator help

[eclipseman]

All,
I am hoping some on here run generators. I have been reading lots about generators and wow is it difficult to know what one needs. I have a Powermate xp5400 (Walmart special). We were hoping to run our wellpump, refrigerator, and some electrical appliances if ever needed but after reading, it would seem this is more tricky than I thought. The 5400 may not be enough for the well pump but I guess we will not know until we try. Since our well pump is hooked up to our breaker, how would be hook it to the generator? and then How would we know if it is even working once hooked up? Second question, for sensitive electronics, what do you all do? Seems like we will need to buy an inverter generator to run those (they are expensive!) Thanks!

 

[mikmaze]

you need to do a bit of homework, go through all of the things you want to run at once, keeping the 220 volt items in one list (well pump being one, dryer, stove, water heater) if they are electric)
go though the items and find their amperage draw. multiply the amps times volts to find wattage.

Add these all up and you will find total wattage of your entire list. it may look like a big number, but now go back through and determine what you really need to run allat once, and what you could manually run one at a time. cooking dinner, might have to turn off water heater, and get away with it, but if you want a shower, well and water heater need to be on, unless you are slick and let water heat up, kill breaker to water heater, turn on well, shower...... make sure not to let water heater drain down when elements are on.....

example, well pump 220v 7amps 1540 watts
water heater 220v 15amps 6600 watts

lights, 10x 100watt 1000 watts
tv 200 watts 200watts
fridge 800 watts 800 watts

ac, 12k btu 2kw start, 700 run

a staggering 11,000 wats, with surge/ startup on top of that


as you see total watts adds up quick, adding to the strain is the startup surge when certain items kick on......

as for hook up it is not that hard, but if you arent sure an electrician could well be worth it.

not all things would run at once, but they could try to and make for a less than perfect experience.

all this said, what are you trying to run?

 

[eclipseman]

you need to do a bit of homework, go through all of the things you want to run at once, keeping the 220 volt items in one list (well pump being one, dryer, stove, water heater) if they are electric)
go though the items and find their amperage draw. multiply the amps times volts to find wattage.

Add these all up and you will find total wattage of your entire list. it may look like a big number, but now go back through and determine what you really need to run allat once, and what you could manually run one at a time. cooking dinner, might have to turn off water heater, and get away with it, but if you want a shower, well and water heater need to be on, unless you are slick and let water heat up, kill breaker to water heater, turn on well, shower...... make sure not to let water heater drain down when elements are on.....

example, well pump 220v 7amps 1540 watts
water heater 220v 15amps 6600 watts

lights, 10x 100watt 1000 watts
tv 200 watts 200watts
fridge 800 watts 800 watts

ac, 12k btu 2kw start, 700 run

a staggering 11,000 wats, with surge/ startup on top of that


as you see total watts adds up quick, adding to the strain is the startup surge when certain items kick on......

as for hook up it is not that hard, but if you arent sure an electrician could well be worth it.

not all things would run at once, but they could try to and make for a less than perfect experience.

all this said, what are you trying to run?

I have actually done some of this homework and know some of the answers. We just purchased this house and cannot find any documentation on the well pump to give us the power needs for the pump. It is likely an older pump (>10years) and is probably on the medium to smaller size. I do not believe the well is extremely deep and it is a smaller house. We would want to run a water heater which is electric but at 6600 watts it looks like our current generator would not be enough (you stated likely 6600 Watts) so we would deal with out it. We do not lose power often (hand full of times a year if that) and almost all are due to thunderstorms. None have lasted more than 24hrs and most are in the 1-5hr range. The issue is one of the power outages happened during the end of winter and we lost heat. We use a pellet stove for our main source of heat and it does not need much to run it, at 800 start up watts BUT it has very integral electronics and I do not want to risk harming them so I may just by a smaller inverter generator to run that by itself. I guess the important things would be the well pump, the pellet stove, and a few lights. The next thing would be the fridge (older fridge with no electrical type panels on the doors) and possibly the water heater but not looking to buy a new generator for that. I have looked into hooking up a transfer switch but our budget would be running low. Again, just trying to get by as cheap as possible for now.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

You could wire your "essentials" into a separate box, then figure out how many watts are needed to run your essentials. Being this is for a back up power source you could back off on what is only "needed" and get buy with a smaller source. A friend of mine runs a solar system as a back up, with a switch that feeds excess back into the grid, he told me in 10 years it will pay for itself, but he said the benefit of having the spare power when needed for a few hours is the reason he did it.

 

[buckdeer1]

One thing is you can either size to kick everything on at once or you can plan on shutting off AC and Heat and maybe running freezer for a couple hours a day.I decided to do a whole home,don't remember the brand but they sell them in Northern tool.But one thing to remember is some of the generators that are sold by these stores are the cheaper models than what dealers sell.With an auto transfer switch if power goes off then generator comes on no issues.Another thing is that when using small electronics you want a generator that will provide clean power,this is where the frequency is level and doesn't vary.Some of the gen say a 5000 watt if you plug a radio in it doesn't draw enough to kick gen set up so you have to plug in drop light or something uses more power.I have had good luck with honda 2000 or the champian that cabelas sells which some of them have remote start.I would spend the money to get everything set up by an electrician so you have a safe setup.And I know you know this but people die every year by running gen set inside house.Only issue we have had with generators is damage caused from the gas and ethanol and found it helps to put additive such as sea foam in during winter,I used stable additive once at fire department and we had to replace alot of gaskets in gen sets and small motors that year

 

[mglenn005]

Since its a backup system, I would keep electric heat off of the system. Switch to a propane heating system if you gotta have heat. Also, use high efficiency light bulbs. 60w bulbs are 60w. A 5400w is plenty of power for a backup. We use that size to power our camper setup. We can have AC and lights, but no microwave. We simply turn off the AC to use the microwave. Propane heat and hot water heater don’t have any wattage draw. We don’t use the refrigerator, we just haul ice for the weekend, typically 2 bags.

Again, I think 5400w is plenty. As the post above says, you just need to manage for the backup situations. Have easy breaker access.


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[Tap]

We have a standby generator, but I can't remember what size it is. It's large enough to run our entire home...well, 2 gas furnaces, 2 air cond, appliances and outlets/lights.

It runs off the natural gas supply that the furnace and hot water tank uses so there's never a need to fuel it.

It automatically exercises itself for 15 minutes once per week...which keeps the battery charged and confirms that it is functioning.

The generator is wired to a transfer panel which kicks the generator on when the regular power is off for a minute or 2.

It's completely self operating, meaning that we don't have to be there to throw a switch or whatever. It's nice to not worry about power if we are away from home.

Our power used to go out all the time...until we got the generator. Now it rarely goes out...lol.

 

[Livesintrees]

Really in all comes down to what the running and operating wattage of your generator is. And what kind of surge it will see when these items kick on. 6 to 7500 running watts not claimed overall wattage typically is what I would recommend as the minimum dependent on your needs. A generator is kind of like anything else. Buy more than you need with what you are able to afford. In my home it is electric everything. I have the entire panel back fed. This way I do not have to choose what I can run and when. Basically everything in the house will have power as per usual. For example if you have all of the lights in your house off you are not using any power. So when we have an outage we only leave on what we need to leave on. If I have to go into the bedroom I’ll turn the light on when I leave the bedroom I’ll turn the light off just like you normally would. This way you still have power everywhere in the house when you need it. The only thing I cannot run for a long period of time is the central air. Because if for example the well pump kicks on the surge will so when we have an outage we only leave on what we need to leave on. If I have to go into the bedroom I’ll turn the light on when I leave the bedroom I’ll turn the light off just like you normally would. This way you still have power everywhere in the house when you need it. The only thing I cannot run for a long period of time is the central air. Because if for example the well pump kicks on the surge will trip the breaker on the generator. I have 10,000 running watts. Seems like overkill but as long as it has fuel, power outages even long term are manageable. Depending on whether you have access to natural gas (i do not) you may wanna consider a flex/tri fuel adaptable system. These allow you to run regular gasoline, or something like a propane tank, and better yet a dedicated natural gas line like what some people use for their grills.

One word of caution. If you choose to backfeed your entire panel have someone qualified to do it or do a lot of research before hand. You can do it in a way that requires a breaker size to your generator and a simple interlock kit. This allows your generator breaker to be turned on only when the main breaker is off. Eliminating the possibility for both utility power and generator power meeting in the middle when the power kicks back on. You can also opt for a transfer switch. RELIANCE CONTROLS sells a bunch of kids that are excellent quality. However like anything else they limit the amount of circuits you are able to put on emergency power. The drawback with these (other then price) as I have found after installing God only knows how many kids is when you have a shared circuit, for example a 12 three conductor Romax cable. With this type of cable you have two hot conductors one neutral and one ground. This is commonly used in a home for example where the load can be placed on a single neutral even though you have too hot conductors. For example the black conductor may do the lights in your bedroom while the Red conductor does the lights in your den. The way this transfer switch style works is when you have a shared circuit you have to have both of them on the switch. So even though you want lights in your bedroom and you don’t care to have lights in your den you are forced to do so. Aka why when someone wants me to do a generator setup I always suggest a simple interlock kit.

 

[Livesintrees]

Please forgive the spelling errors. Talking to the truck microphone is great but not accurate!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm an electrician, as is Livesintrees. ^^^ Your budget will largely determine what size generator and with what bells & whistles you can afford. Personally, I wouldn't recommend a generator smaller than 6500 watts. That will cover most bases. An automatic transfer switch that comes with, say, a Generac generator, is less headache for most homeowners who don't want to mess with anything or worry about being home when power might go out. A flex / tri-fuel system gives the most options for running the generator. If you're out in the country, you may want a propane - fueled generator, with it's own dedicated gas tank / line. No gasoline to re-fill, etc.

To keep the spending down, verify which things you HAVE to have if you were out of power for 1 or 2 days. ( Most outages are less than 2 days ). Refrig., well pump, freezer (separate one), furnace, some lights, range (if electric), etc. This will keep the number of circuits needed low. Most of us can get around the house for 24 to 48 hrs. with flashlights or LED lanterns without strain. Also you want a generator that delivers "clean" power.

As Livesintrees said - best to get a qualified electrician to install, and at very least - get it inspected by an electrical inspector for ultimate safety and ability to sleep at night. Safety first with electricity. Plumbing problems - you get a wet floor. Electrical problems - you get fire and/or death/electrocution. Don't risk your family.

 

[ksgobbler]

When I built I had a manual transfer installed. We have no propane so I will use a gas generator when the time comes. I had my outlets wired specifically for this. Most of our extended outages are due to ice storms. So I have my fireplace blower, living room outlets (tv), and half my bedroom outlets on a couple breakers. I had the refrigerator on it’s own breaker. I work in power generation and many of my friends are linemen. Don’t kill any of them.

 

[eclipseman]

I'm an electrician, as is Livesintrees. ^^^ Your budget will largely determine what size generator and with what bells & whistles you can afford. Personally, I wouldn't recommend a generator smaller than 6500 watts. That will cover most bases. An automatic transfer switch that comes with, say, a Generac generator, is less headache for most homeowners who don't want to mess with anything or worry about being home when power might go out. A flex / tri-fuel system gives the most options for running the generator. If you're out in the country, you may want a propane - fueled generator, with it's own dedicated gas tank / line. No gasoline to re-fill, etc.

To keep the spending down, verify which things you HAVE to have if you were out of power for 1 or 2 days. ( Most outages are less than 2 days ). Refrig., well pump, freezer (separate one), furnace, some lights, range (if electric), etc. This will keep the number of circuits needed low. Most of us can get around the house for 24 to 48 hrs. with flashlights or LED lanterns without strain. Also you want a generator that delivers "clean" power.

As Livesintrees said - best to get a qualified electrician to install, and at very least - get it inspected by an electrical inspector for ultimate safety and ability to sleep at night. Safety first with electricity. Plumbing problems - you get a wet floor. Electrical problems - you get fire and/or death/electrocution. Don't risk your family.

The clean energy is what the problem is since my pellet stove has sensitive electronics. I was given a brand new generator from my parents. It is a modern generator but I'm sure it is not "clean" when it comes to the power it gives. It is a Powermate 5400 watt generator. I was thinking of having a transfer box added just to cover lights, well pump, and refrigerator. I would use this generator for those things. Then id buy a smaller inverter type generator (2000watts or so) to run my pellet stove and TV and plug those directly into the inverter generator. Pellet stove uses about 600Watts at startup and 250watts running. TV is a plasma so probably uses a lot which is the reason for a 2000watt portable type inverter generator. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

A transfer switch is required if you connect a generator to your electrical system via the circuit breaker panel. They come in manual and automatic versions. This is so your generator can't put power "backwards"- so to speak - into the power grid ( poles ) when linemen are trying to repair the whole system. It is a failsafe device to protect both ends, the linemen - and the homeowner with the generator.
If you unplug your refrig. from the wall outlet and plug it into the receptacles on the generator, that can't put power "backwards" into the power co. grid. The plug and cord are disconnected from your house wiring. Same for plug-in lamps.

Electronics is a whole different branch of the electrical field, much like cardiology differs from general medicine. I'm not adequately schooled in all the requirements of today's electronic devices to comment accurately. I won't offer advice just to throw something out there. I'd be doing you a disservice instead of helping you. If it were me, I'd ask the manufacturer what is required as far as stand-by power supplies. Then you get it straight from the horse's mouth, and you don't jeopardize your devices.

 

[Livesintrees]

Electronics are something that I have no knowledge in. As mentioned above I won’t give any input on it. The issue however is truly the frequency that’s put out by the generators. If that was your concern I’d say call them direct and honestly I know technology wise for sensitive electronics I would look into a Honda. However as far as a tv goes I’ve never had and issue with mine. I prioritize what the emergency power is really for. And for me thats heat, lights, and my well pump. That lets me live life comfortably. Im at the point where I enjoy having the tv off haha

 

[Buckly]

A transfer switch is required if you connect a generator to your electrical system via the circuit breaker panel. They come in manual and automatic versions. This is so your generator can't put power "backwards"- so to speak - into the power grid ( poles ) when linemen are trying to repair the whole system. It is a failsafe device to protect both ends, the linemen - and the homeowner with the generator.
If you unplug your refrig. from the wall outlet and plug it into the receptacles on the generator, that can't put power "backwards" into the power co. grid. The plug and cord are disconnected from your house wiring. Same for plug-in lamps.

Electronics is a whole different branch of the electrical field, much like cardiology differs from general medicine. I'm not adequately schooled in all the requirements of today's electronic devices to comment accurately. I won't offer advice just to throw something out there. I'd be doing you a disservice instead of helping you. If it were me, I'd ask the manufacturer what is required as far as stand-by power supplies. Then you get it straight from the horse's mouth, and you don't jeopardize your devices.

I would add that if you do have your generator hooked up (the wrong way) once the power comes back on your generator will be toast!

 

[Livesintrees]

A simple interlock kit is the simplest most affordable way to go. It ensures your safety as well as the lineman’s.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

An automatic transfer switch has an interlock IN it. When the permanent power comes back on, the auto transfer switch cuts the generator out of the circuitry for the house or any other building. That way your generator AND house are safe. So are the linemen !!