Food plots for feeding deer

[yoderjac]

I agree with some of your points but lets stay with the big picture. You will never have me arguing against age! Bucks in all age classes in most of the mid west and areas of superior soil have had bigger antlers than bucks in all age classes in areas of weaker soils...historically. Bucks in areas of superior soil have shown an ability to reach B&C status at younger ages than bucks in areas of weaker soils. Antlers are an accessory and improve or digress as an epigenetic response to the environment. Big picture big scale stuff. Can regulation, cultural changes and habitat use compromise full genetic expression? Of course. But that doesn't change the underlying potential. When looking at the big picture a pattern develops where you can see how historical fertility has impacted deer development across the country.

Studies at Ms. State have shown where what they call the " generational effect" can take deer from historically poor soil areas and when put on higher nutritional plane show some improvement. But more important their off spring show continued improvement over parents. And the children children continued better than their parents. Studies in Europe before WW2 followed this 'generational effect 'for decades showing continued improvement with an uncertainty they would ever cease. Unfortunately the war stopped the study. All this is epigenetic response. It can be seen as a mosaic across the country following soil fertility

My point: trophy quality deer are now consistently being grown in areas of lousy soil where there were rarely trophy deer before. Management focused on raising the nutritional plane especially thru food plots and ag along with allowing age have been chiefly responsible for this. Those deer are getting big in areas where they are eating peas, beans, clover and other legumes all summer and having small grains, brassicas and the like all winter. You simply don't find them in areas of weak soil without ag.

Can man screw this up with regulation, cultural changes, land fragmentation etc. Sure. Can man screw this up by pressuring deer so much they become schizophrenic psychotic vampires unable to follow their natural instincts? Sure. But does that change the reality that we can shift a deers diet significantly and reap the benefits of it? Does that change the reality that a deer will gravitate to the highest quality nutrition available if given the opportunity ? I think not.

The MSU study was a great one, but it proved a different point. It showed that genetics was not the limiting factor hunters thought it was. Deer from rich and poor soil areas were captured and penned and fed the same diet and it showed little difference between the groups by the third generation. What it didn't show was how much above the soil fertility limits of an area folks can improve the herd in free ranging deer. I'll never argue that planting food plots is not a good thing for deer management in most cases.

While I don't disagree that deer trophy sized deer are now being grown in poor soil areas, the question is how and why. But food plots are only one of many factors. Most managers are using a wide variety of techniques not just food plots. Rotating early successional habitat improves the quantity and quality of native foods simply by letting sunlight energy reach the ground. I will agree that areas with poor soil fertility and poor habitat have more room for improvement, but I doubt the quantity and quality of free ranging deer on poor soils will every reach that of fertile soils all else being equal. You haven't sold me but I enjoy the discussion and respect your viewpoint.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Baker]

Point of this thread for me is this. Deer get a significant portion of their diet from ag sources where available. To simplify; Trophy production around the country, great soils or weak, come from areas where deer have access to beans, peas, alfalfa, clover or other legumes as well as small grains and brassicas. You simply don't see a lot of trophy production where deer are only eating smilax, beauty berry, honey suckle or whatever native browse may be around. Grow high quality crops year round and the deer will eat them...a lot.

Been an great discussion. I'm off to the ranch till next week so I yield the floor. Perhaps another topic just to keep things fun: Is Northern Mexico along the Rio Grande River between Piedras Negras and Nuevo Laredo the greatest place in the world to hunt whitetail deer? I vote yes!!!

Adios for now

 

[yoderjac]

We can agree to disagree, but I wish you the best of luck on your hunt. With so little other food in an environment like that food plots may in fact comprise a larger portion of a deer's diet. I see that kind of situation as the exception rather than the rule.

 

[SwampCat]

Deer use my summer clover and bean plots for much greater lengths of time than they do my winter wheat and clover plots. Deer seem to just graze across my winter plots and then continue on. They stay for hours at a time in my summer bean and clover plots. In my area - with mild winters and almost no snow - I have always thought my fall plots to be for me and my summer plots to be for the deer. Back in the early 80’s, our state had mandatory deer check stations. I would sometimes work with our Game and Fish folks measuring the deer brought in opening weekend. Sometimes several hundred during a weekend. The average 1.5 yr old buck was a spike or forkhorn. The average mature buck would have scored 100. Same area - almost forty years later - we see a lot of small 8 pt 1.5 yr old deer - never in the 80’s. Our average mature deer would score 115-120 - with a fair many on up into the 140’s - unheard of in the 80’s. I dont know what has caused he improvement in antler quality. Body weights have increased only slightly. Nobody had food plots in the early 80’s. Nobody provided supplemental feed. I would not say there has been any major land management change - other than the commercial timber companies have now stopped almost all burning and they used to burn everything in the 80’s. I know you cant automatically say we started feeding deer and planting food plots and now the antlers are larger - but it is surely the most obvious difference.

 

[yoderjac]

Deer use my summer clover and bean plots for much greater lengths of time than they do my winter wheat and clover plots. Deer seem to just graze across my winter plots and then continue on. They stay for hours at a time in my summer bean and clover plots. In my area - with mild winters and almost no snow - I have always thought my fall plots to be for me and my summer plots to be for the deer. Back in the early 80’s, our state had mandatory deer check stations. I would sometimes work with our Game and Fish folks measuring the deer brought in opening weekend. Sometimes several hundred during a weekend. The average 1.5 yr old buck was a spike or forkhorn. The average mature buck would have scored 100. Same area - almost forty years later - we see a lot of small 8 pt 1.5 yr old deer - never in the 80’s. Our average mature deer would score 115-120 - with a fair many on up into the 140’s - unheard of in the 80’s. I dont know what has caused he improvement in antler quality. Body weights have increased only slightly. Nobody had food plots in the early 80’s. Nobody provided supplemental feed. I would not say there has been any major land management change - other than the commercial timber companies have now stopped almost all burning and they used to burn everything in the 80’s. I know you cant automatically say we started feeding deer and planting food plots and now the antlers are larger - but it is surely the most obvious difference.

That is the same thing that happens here. Deer spend a lot of time in summer plots but that is likely because summer is our major stress period and there are fewer quality native foods available. In addition, there is no hunting pressure during the summer. In the fall/winter, deer use our plots for much shorter periods especially during daylight hours.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My hunting land is in the North woods, I will say if there is easy food (food plots, crops, fresh forestry cuttings, bait) the deer will eat that before eating tree bark in the winter. My food plots get destroyed by December every year, I get the same 10 deer or so in their a couple times a day, every day until the food is gone, then they move to other areas nearby. I believe if the easy food is there, a good portion of there diet will come from the easy food, especially during your areas stress period. In the past I would go up weekly on hard winters and put out food into their bedding areas, or atleast on the edge of them, just so they didnt need to travel far in the deep snow, in the sub zero temps. I have a lot of low lying alder, pine, and good ground cover for them to bed in, but my land cant provide enough food to winter on, so they move on around January. But I do believe if I could plant enough acres to feed them, the majority of their diets would come from my plots, rather then deep woods forbes, and tree bark.

 

[WeedyJ]

It seems like this discussion is trying to tie soil fertility with the QUALITY of the bucks. At the QDMA Habitat workshop this spring, Craig Harper cited a study regarding soil fertility. They measured the nutritional profile of a given plant, crops as well as natural browse, grown in the fertile soils of the country as well as from areas with lesser soil quality. All of the plants had the same nutritional levels on a plant matter basis, i.e., they all were of equal nutritional value. However, the plants from the more fertile areas were LARGER, giving greater biomass, and hence more nutrition per acre, than those in the less fertile areas. So I would assume that this would be reflected in great QUALITY bucks in ALL soil areas, but maybe greater QUANTITY of good bucks in the more fertile areas.

I have seen an substantial improvement in the body condition of the does and the antler mass of the bucks taken and on camera on my little 125 acres over the 2 years I have been managing. I have substantially improved some of the browse areas as well as planted. And I only plant about 4-5 acres.

 

[j-bird]

I am a firm believer in soil fertility...and more so on a regional basis. In areas of poor food supply the deer will certainly take advantage....the trick is to provide enough of that to see an actual gain in the deer. Areas with lower regional soil fertility I suspect would see gains sooner and on a smaller scale than areas with a much higher soil fertility. Like was mentioned areas with the high fertility on a more widespread basis would be able to provide that nutrition to more deer and thus I suspect would produce more of the larger deer as a result.

As far as the mexico thing goes....I have no idea. When I go to Mexico, I'm heading to a beach with a cerveza in my hand....deer hunting can wait!

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It seems like this discussion is trying to tie soil fertility with the QUALITY of the bucks. At the QDMA Habitat workshop this spring, Craig Harper cited a study regarding soil fertility. They measured the nutritional profile of a given plant, crops as well as natural browse, grown in the fertile soils of the country as well as from areas with lesser soil quality. All of the plants had the same nutritional levels on a plant matter basis, i.e., they all were of equal nutritional value. However, the plants from the more fertile areas were LARGER, giving greater biomass, and hence more nutrition per acre, than those in the less fertile areas. So I would assume that this would be reflected in great QUALITY bucks in ALL soil areas, but maybe greater QUANTITY of good bucks in the more fertile areas.

I have seen an substantial improvement in the body condition of the does and the antler mass of the bucks taken and on camera on my little 125 acres over the 2 years I have been managing. I have substantially improved some of the browse areas as well as planted. And I only plant about 4-5 acres.

I still cant get on board with the nutritional value being the same for all plants no matter region or soil quality. Take chicken for an example. You have to eat nearly double the amount by weight of processed chicken nuggets to receive the same amount of nutrition as you get from eating a much smaller portion of unprocessed chicken breast. Your eating chicken meat wither way but....

 

[BenAllgood]

I believe you can have a major contribution towards a deer's diet with food plots, if it is on a great enough scale. That's a major reason bucks in the ag areas of the Midwest and certain other areas grow larger racks. The quantity of quality food is there. The reason there's a large quantity of quality food is because the soil is good for agriculture without as many amendments as other areas with poorer soils. If areas that had pine plantations could get more money growing soybeans, they would. If the corn belt could make more money growing pines, they would. As Dr. Harper found in their studies, the nutritional value of the plant is the same in different regions. The difference was there was more of the highly nutritional plants on better soils. By landscaping for more nutritional plants, which can be done by several methods, you can raise the nutritional plane of the deer that live there.

 

[WeedyJ]

I still cant get on board with the nutritional value being the same for all plants no matter region or soil quality. Take chicken for an example. You have to eat nearly double the amount by weight of processed chicken nuggets to receive the same amount of nutrition as you get from eating a much smaller portion of unprocessed chicken breast. Your eating chicken meat wither way but....

I can't remember the plant details, but I think most of the discussion was focused on natural plants in natural areas, such as ragweed. So that would eliminate genetic varietals of ag crops affecting nutritional levels. Regarding your chicken example, I think a more analogous comparison would be to compare unprocessed chicken breast from the same species of chicken from different areas of the country.

 

[j-bird]

As much as it pains me to do this....this is the article I recalled from QDMA.....

https://www.qdma.com/mapping-antler-expectations/

Here is a visual of antler size in yearling bucks related to area in this article.... You can see how the yearling antler size is greater in what is generally described as the "midwestern" states....which I can only connect to heavy agriculture....and thus fertile soils to support it.

 

[yoderjac]

I believe you can have a major contribution towards a deer's diet with food plots, if it is on a great enough scale. That's a major reason bucks in the ag areas of the Midwest and certain other areas grow larger racks. The quantity of quality food is there. The reason there's a large quantity of quality food is because the soil is good for agriculture without as many amendments as other areas with poorer soils. If areas that had pine plantations could get more money growing soybeans, they would. If the corn belt could make more money growing pines, they would. As Dr. Harper found in their studies, the nutritional value of the plant is the same in different regions. The difference was there was more of the highly nutritional plants on better soils. By landscaping for more nutritional plants, which can be done by several methods, you can raise the nutritional plane of the deer that live there.

Which supports the point I was trying to make earlier. I'm going to define "Food Plot" as a planting that is specifically designed for wildlife. Unless you are selling hunts or have found some way to turn deer quality into profit, food plots are a cost. Agriculture I'll define as planting crops for profit. I contend that a deer's diet may consist of a high percentage of planted crops in some areas, but not of food plots. In big ag areas with less than prime soils, ag crops may provide quantity of quality food. When I say area, I'm talking over miles, and area large enough to completely encompass the home range and even excursion range of many deer. Farmers, as a group, can amend soils sufficiently to provided quantity of quality crops because they make a net profit from their operation.

Deer are browsers, not grazers. They utilize plants over their entire home range, both planted and native. They eat where they are as they move through their day. Granted in better quality habitat, home ranges will be smaller. So, if soil fertility (natural or amended) is higher over this broad area, deer will have better quality food wherever and whatever they eat. Deer choose higher quality foods over lower quality foods to some extent, but they eat where they are, and where they are at any given time is determined by many factors including security over 24/7 365.

It is my contention that while a wildlife manager can make some improvements in deer quality by using food plots, that improvement is limited by the overall soil fertility in the area. It is impractical for non-profit food plots to planted on the scale necessary to make poor soil fertility areas produce the same quality deer as rich soil fertility areas. Another thing to consider here is that quantity of quality food may not be a limiting factor on deer quality in some areas. I would contend that in high ag areas with edge to edge farming, the limiting factor may be cover. It may also be quality food during periods after harvest depending on farming techniques in the area.

One more thing we have not discussed that is a factor here is deer densities. Areas with higher soils fertility and support higher densities of quality deer.

So, the path I'm on is to improve habitat quality over a larger area. There is a limit as to what is affordable from a food plot perspective. While I will still have some food plots, I'm working to large area habitat improvement through timber management. I find it has a larger impact because it is impacting larger areas and it is profitable rather than a cost so I can do it on a larger scale. I'm also looking at the concept of wildlife openings rather than conventional food plots.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Baker]

That is the same thing that happens here. Deer spend a lot of time in summer plots but that is likely because summer is our major stress period and there are fewer quality native foods available. In addition, there is no hunting pressure during the summer. In the fall/winter, deer use our plots for much shorter periods especially during daylight hours.

Thanks to the miracle of wifi I check in from afar. Jack, are you coming around? So now you are agreeing that a significant portion of a deers diet on your place, at least in the summer, can come from plantings? I'll Come back to this in a moment.

I'm going to define "Food Plot" as a planting that is specifically designed for wildlife.

Now you are splitting hairs. My point is that deer get a significant portion of their diet from planting be it food plots or ag. Yes, food plots can and do accomplish the same thing as commercial ag and folks are doing it all the time. And folks all over the country are planting on a scale to measurably improve their deer herds.

I contend that a deers diet may consist of a high percentage of planted crops in some areas, but not of food plots

Now you are coming around .Do you think a deer knows the difference between commercial ag and a food plot? To think that there aren't folks all over the country planting sufficient acreage to effectively feed deer is simply erroneous. Yes you are right, a deer diet frequently does consist of a high percentage of planted crops...if available. Lots of folk doing it and the cost isn't as draconian as you imply.

It is my contention that while a wildlife manager can make some improvements in deer quality by using food plots, that improvement is limited by the overall soil fertility in the area. It is impractical for non-profit food plots to planted on the scale necessary to make poor soil fertility areas produce the same quality deer as rich soil fertility areas

I find this statement incorrect , misleading and I have given numerous examples above refuting this. Yes, food plots can even the scale of deer quality even on weak soils ,even with the more fertile soils around the country. It is happening now all over the country on small scale and large.

One more thing we have not discussed that is a factor here is deer densities. Areas with higher soils fertility and support higher densities of quality deer.

This is true....but incomplete. Using food plots you can increase deer densities well within the ecological carrying capacity of the habitat. Higher deer densities create more opportunities for quality deer. Again it is happening all over the country even in areas of weak soil.

Going back to the first comment about summer food sources vs. winter. Can we agree that another major stress period is late winter all over the country. A significant difference is the north may have snow to contend with vs. the south where the growing season may be nearly year round. Many folks up north are leaving some corn or soybeans standing as both a late winter food source as well as a hunting opportunity where legal. From what I have seen just about every deer in the neighborhood shows up in those corn fields as that is the best food source around. In the south, while we may not see heavy grazing in the small grain fields during the season, let the acorns fade out, hard freezes kill everything in the woods and deer will spend all night, early morning and late evening in the fields. Whats important here is to recognize the timing of late winter stress and assure something is available within the constraints of the geography.

Once again, to be disgustingly repetitive, my contention is that a significant portion of a deers diet over the course of a year comes from planted crops where available . And these planted crops can have a profound impact on deers health and quality especially if continued over time.

 

[SD51555]

It seems the conventional wisdom I see posted on threads here as well as other sources is that food plots provide only a ' fraction' of a deers diet. I want to challenge that convention.

If you really want to challenge conventional wisdom, tear down the walls that define one forage as food plot, and another as native browse. Can we really lump all 400+ varieties of deer food into two categories?

 

[LEWI B]

Great discussion gentlemen.
Thank you for your time.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1571652949514365&id=161785573834450&_rdr
Dr Harper pretty much dispels the notion that soil fertility correlates to antler growth. I had falsely assumed most everyone had seen this, if not it is WELL worth the watch. Fascinating

 

[Baker]

If you really want to challenge conventional wisdom, tear down the walls that define one forage as food plot, and another as native browse. Can we really lump all 400+ varieties of deer food into two categories?

I don't see a wall. Just a difference in cultivation techniques .Fully support working to maximize diversity as well as intensity. The more diversity the better.

 

[BenAllgood]

Like I said earlier, there are people that can and do plant food plots on a large enough scale to impact the nutritional plane of deer diets. If people can't or won't do that, there are other ways besides planting to impact the diet. Broad habitat manipulations are one way. Managing for plants that are highly nutritious for deer can be done without food plots if one doesn't have the time, money or means to devote to large scale food plots. Will food plots give more tonnage of these highly nutritious plants? Absolutely, for the time they are available. This is one reason I see cover crops in ag areas between crop rotations creating ground even more influential to deer diets. The season of void that is sometimes present becomes less.

 

[yoderjac]

That is the same thing that happens here. Deer spend a lot of time in summer plots but that is likely because summer is our major stress period and there are fewer quality native foods available. In addition, there is no hunting pressure during the summer. In the fall/winter, deer use our plots for much shorter periods especially during daylight hours.

Thanks to the miracle of wifi I check in from afar. Jack, are you coming around? So now you are agreeing that a significant portion of a deers diet on your place, at least in the summer, can come from plantings? I'll Come back to this in a moment.



Now you are splitting hairs. My point is that deer get a significant portion of their diet from planting be it food plots or ag. Yes, food plots can and do accomplish the same thing as commercial ag and folks are doing it all the time. And folks all over the country are planting on a scale to measurably improve their deer herds.

I contend that a deers diet may consist of a high percentage of planted crops in some areas, but not of food plots

Now you are coming around .Do you think a deer knows the difference between commercial ag and a food plot? To think that there aren't folks all over the country planting sufficient acreage to effectively feed deer is simply erroneous. Yes you are right, a deer diet frequently does consist of a high percentage of planted crops...if available. Lots of folk doing it and the cost isn't as draconian as you imply.


I find this statement incorrect , misleading and I have given numerous examples above refuting this. Yes, food plots can even the scale of deer quality even on weak soils ,even with the more fertile soils around the country. It is happening now all over the country on small scale and large.


This is true....but incomplete. Using food plots you can increase deer densities well within the ecological carrying capacity of the habitat. Higher deer densities create more opportunities for quality deer. Again it is happening all over the country even in areas of weak soil.

Going back to the first comment about summer food sources vs. winter. Can we agree that another major stress period is late winter all over the country. A significant difference is the north may have snow to contend with vs. the south where the growing season may be nearly year round. Many folks up north are leaving some corn or soybeans standing as both a late winter food source as well as a hunting opportunity where legal. From what I have seen just about every deer in the neighborhood shows up in those corn fields as that is the best food source around. In the south, while we may not see heavy grazing in the small grain fields during the season, let the acorns fade out, hard freezes kill everything in the woods and deer will spend all night, early morning and late evening in the fields. Whats important here is to recognize the timing of late winter stress and assure something is available within the constraints of the geography.

Once again, to be disgustingly repetitive, my contention is that a significant portion of a deers diet over the course of a year comes from planted crops where available . And these planted crops can have a profound impact on deers health and quality especially if continued over time.

I'm not splitting hairs. To my way of thinking there is a big difference between food plots planted for wildlife and agriculture. The difference, from a wildlife management standpoint, is scale. Certainly one can change soil fertility over a wide enough range to significantly impact deer if there is no cost associated with it. For example, driving through SD, one can drive for 100 miles and see nothing but crops fields. Same thing in some areas of the mid-west. While they are not on marginal soils, they also not on the very most fertile soils naturally. However, farmers have amended soils over a huge area. In many cases, farm crops are a primary food source. Not only are they high quality (when they are present), but they comprise most of the plant life.

I'm speaking in terms of deer management. Food plots are a deer management tool that are fundamentally different than agriculture to my way of thinking. From an economic standpoint, they are a cost, not a profit source. Next, there is no harvest requirement. This provides much greater options for mixing crops and crops with weeds so soils are not depleted. It doesn't matter if a deer is eating a highly nutritional "weed" (from a farmers perspective) or the crops we plant.

Food plots can be used in high ag areas. Again, I differentiate them from ag because their specific purpose is to benefit wildlife, and this benefit is not a byproduct like it is with ag. In a high ag environment, the key is to understand when Ag will go from boom to bust based on farming techniques and select crops for the bust cycles created by farming. This is the same way one would cover the bust cycles (stress periods) created by seasonal changes in non-ag settings.

So, I see food plots as a tool, unique to wildlife management. They are a cost, not a profit center. They will provide only a small fraction of a deer's 24/7/365 diet. Most of their diet will come from other sources, and in areas we have not removed the native vegetation in favor of edge-to-edge farming, that will be native foods. Other habitat management techniques such as timber management rotating early successional habitat through different sections, creates quantity of quality native foods. It can be done on a much larger scale by a deer manager because it generates profits even if we sacrifice a portion of the profit by maximizing wildlife benefit of timbering rather than maximizing timber profit.

All of us are in different environments with a different mix of soils, climate, deer densities, and more. So, when I speak of food plots, I'm using that consistent definition I used above.

I think in general, we are in agreement on most things. It is often just the language we use to describe things that makes it seem that our views are opposing.

Thanks,

Jack