Food plots are worthless for hunting

[SD51555]

I spent 5 days in the woods after this past season just working on new stand locations and access paths to those stands. I'm in the process of moving way back from my food plots. Wherever that flight path is of a scent checking buck, I'm going to be even further back and put those bucks between me and the food plot.

I'm still working on social attractants to get them to stop somewhere in that strike zone, like a mock scrape, water hole, etc.

 

[bwoods11]

Buck—I’ve read your post a couple times. I’m thinking location. Minnesota has issues, especially north of Hwy 10. Some areas produce bucks, others poor.

I have an 8 or 10 pointer in my plots almost every evening (based on sightings, camera)... on 52 acres. We shot a 144 and 133 on the main plot on Nov 6/Nov 7. This is in Western MN (near Glenwood)

On the other hand my 148 acres had nothing nice on it all year, despite food/cover.

Location, location.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Here is the basic layout. It might only be 40, but hunts much bigger cause of the untouched state land bedding area to the south so lets call it 80 acres. The plots are not to scale. The two big plots are next to thick nasty regen. The big one is probably 3/4 of acre and odd shaped. The NW plot is probably .1-.2 acres. The east plot might be .5 acres. Probably another good half acre+ in clover trails. We have edge access to the entire property. The NW stand is within 30 yards of the plot, but it rarely gets used and is 3/4 enclosed. All the other stands are over 100 yards away from plots and 3/4 enclosed. There are approximately 75 fruit trees planted that should start producing real soon. Property is full of browse cause it was select cut in 2011 and has nice water holes in several places. Guy tried to pocket money before he lost it back to the bank. We have hinge cut a bunch of popple(sp?), birch, basswood, and maple to release oaks.

We have never had more than 2 stands used at a time and if there is 14 possible hunts in a 7 day period the max it will see is 7 hunts. The only thing different this year from last year is we stopped plotting. That dramatically dropped the number of does on the property. Everyone tells me if you have does you will have bucks. I contend we had way too many does, but our area is still only 6-8 DPSM. The plots worked so damn good they drew every doe for a few miles in to feast. If I didnt see 10+ deer (all does and fawns) a night with plots then it was a slow night. They would usually start hitting the big plot around 3pm and work their way from the south to the alfalfa field in their doe groups. The bucks came often, just happened to be in the middle of the night. I would rather have 5-6 does on the property with a buck chasing them around than 20-30 does feeding in plots and having so much social pressure that they teach the bucks to avoid it.


As for intrusion, we removed all but two cameras this year and I placed them over mock scrapes right next to 2 of the stands and the bucks I caught came back repeatedly and hit the scrapes so I dont think they were a problem. In the plot years we would stay out from Sept 1 all the way to close of rifle. This year I went in around OCT 1 and bud capped my newly planted spruce trees. Arguably this year was THE MOST fall intrusion ever. I went into every area of the property to deal with the trees. I also had the most buck sightings ever and hunted it harder than ever before cause of the buck sightings. Those big boys were bedding all over that property this year, which is the exact opposite of years past. As much time, money and sweat as we wasted to do these plots it only hurt the hunting. I am gonna keep focusing on making this a bedroom property cause from my years of experience with it that is what they are telling me to do if I want to shoot a mature buck. If you guys can make plots work then great. I had a 5 year case study and couldn't get it to work one time. The two years without plots were hands down the best.

 

[bueller]

Get rid of those clover trails and keep your food plots. Force those bucks to feed on the huntable food plots vs the non-huntable trails. Sneaky bucks will often step into a feeding area (be it a plot or trail) and stand in one spot for long periods of time stuffing themselves before stepping right back off the food keeping their exposure to the bare minimum. Same reason cameras on plots don't pick up all the deer, especially the mature bucks, using them.

 

[roymunson]

Buck—I’ve read your post a couple times. I’m thinking location. Minnesota has issues, especially north of Hwy 10. Some areas produce bucks, others poor.

I have an 8 or 10 pointer in my plots almost every evening (based on sightings, camera)... on 52 acres. We shot a 144 and 133 on the main plot on Nov 6/Nov 7. This is in Western MN (near Glenwood)

On the other hand my 148 acres had nothing nice on it all year, despite food/cover.

Location, location.

This too...

Remember, we're all dealing in subsets and there will be anomalies on all properties as small as we have, compared to the whole of a county or state. We're hunting micro land compared to the whole ball of wax.
The drury's say know your farm's DNA and play to it. On ours, we have a lot of good bucks on their feet during daylight the last week of October. Not sure why, but it's different than other spots we hunt just 5-10 miles away.

But for me to come one here and say, "Hunting the first week of November is worthless" would be an incredible oversimplification.

 

[bwoods11]

Another MN reference, but I used to hunt a 220 acre property in Kittson County MN-Far NW corner. Great area, and nice habitat. One year we had 5 bucks between 130-160 hanging around the farm. The following two years, nothing over 125...neighbors said the same thing, few if any mature bucks? There were wolves around, could that be a factor?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Opinions are like assholes, but here is mine.

I agree, get rid of the trails, make 1 peanut shaped food plot in the middle of your property about 3/4-1 acre in size total, and get rid of the rest. With the alfalfa just to the other side of the road, they have a better food option then clover already. Hunt the trails to the food plot, and if you rifle hunt it, set up a stand that you can hunt a trail, and see into the food plot, on either side of the peanut shape. So you arent really hunting the food plot, but can see into it, and get a shot if Mr right is feeding in the food plot.

I will have to agree, food plots dont equal day time bucks, but it does give them another reason to check out your land, either for a bite to eat, or some doe action. Another thing, you mentioned you have less does now, if you have a bunch of older does, they get to be bitches, and will chase off bucks, you may want to remove a few of them.

 

[yoderjac]

Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth. The picture is cut off at the top, but I presume there is cover in that swamp. If so, any deer that venture into the alfalfa during daylight hours will be bedded there. I don't know how heavily traveled that road is, but I would expect that other than chasing does in the rut, deer bedded to the south of the road would wait until after dark to cross it.

So, when I look at your property the first thing that comes to mind is transition. Food would be low on my list if I read the picture properly. The area you identify as 50 acres of prime bedding looks like a clear-cut. This means food in cover. When I see food-in-cover, the first thing I think of is pressure sensitive deer. They are not forces to move from bedding to food because until winter sets in, they will have high quality food in the bedding cover. This means, any little bit of pressure can cause them to hold.

Your original post makes perfect sense to me. I would not add food to your property right now. I would keep those plots open by either burning or mowing them just before they get too large for your equipment. They won't do you much good for now. Allowing them to grow up makes good transition cover. You may consider mowing them when you think they are getting too thick to shoot into them. You want deer to feel secure on your land but you still want good shots.

As time goes on, that bedding area to the south will begin to canopy. It will still be thick enough for bedding but with vegetation debris building on the ground over time and less sunlight, the quality food value will diminish making that alfalfa more attractive. My objective would be for deer stage on your land during daylght ours for now. You might consider planting part of the two smaller northern plots in a perennial like clover in years to come.

So, I think you are right, in your case food plots bring little to the table right now. This is one reason I suggest folks analyze 1,000 acres when there land in the center before beginning any habitat changes. The key is understanding how deer relate to the area and what role your property plays. Folks doing QDM will want to fill voids. Folks with small plots like yours will want to manipulate habitat increase deer usage during hunting hours.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Tree Spud]

Perseverance award right there. Gets called and idiot and offers up more good input without skipping a beat. Well done!!!

Thanks, not sure how someone who comes on a social media forum focusing on deer habitat stating that food plots don't work, then calls me an idiot because I questioned that position is supposed to have affected my psyche?

People make stupid comments all the time, who am I to stop them?

 

[BuckSutherland]

Thanks, not sure how someone who comes on a social media forum focusing on deer habitat stating that food plots don't work, then calls me an idiot because I questioned that position is supposed to have affected my psyche?

People make stupid comments all the time, who am I to stop them?

You're right. I shouldn't have called you an idiot. I should have called you an asshole or prick. I came on a habitat forum to discuss how the CONCEPT of food plots haven't worked for us at all and provided a new video that seemingly explains some of the stuff I have seen on our property after YEARS of work. Sorry I didnt make it abundantly clear to the forum that I was discussing my 40 acres. I acknowledged that its working for others, but not us. We may be few and far between, but others in habitat world agree with me that plots haven't worked for them either and their land is better off without them. I never made any mention of any person or other forum member, only the CONCEPT of food plots and that butt hurt you.

Your only post was to insult me and insinuate that I/we are such shitty hunters and land managers that you would greatly benefit from being my neighbor. Then you make assumptions about my character and tell everyone that I am impatient and an irrational decision maker and insult my intelligence. You made no attempt to discuss the topic, only to make a personal attack me and what I'm doing and you barely know any of the story. We worked our ass off and spent a pile of money for 5 years trying to do everything we thought would HELP and after 5 long years I came to the conclusion that it was hurting. In one season I had 4 times the sightings of the previous 5 season combined. I will stick with what has shown to work on our land and you can take your passive aggressive comments and shove them up your ass.

 

[cavey]

Easy there Killer, you tossed a grenade into a room and did not expect what your getting.... Catscratch called it in the first reply to the OP "This can of worms has been opened before... lots of differing viewpoints about it." probably were this whole thread should have ended before everyone started stepping on their you know whats. An overly bold statement with a built in conclusion dropped like a bomb on a pretty habitat passionate site is going to have some strong opinions bounced at you and some are going to call BS right from the beginning... snapping at the end here is not cool... this is a member active site that rarely sees obscenities thrown out even if one is offended... and others before you have been offended without the same reaction. Its a good site and needs to stay that way.

 

[yoderjac]

Before this thread gets out of control or locked, I think we are suffering from how the written word loses context compared to a face to face conversation. Take the thread title for a start "Food plots are worthless for hunting". The OP probably intended that to be a description of his experience on his property, and I think in his particular case he is probably right. However, most readers (me included) see that title as a provocative challenge to using food plots to enhance hunting in general. I think many of the posts were responses to that perceived challenge. We all tend to take our personal experiences and overgeneralize them. As the thread continued, especially after posting imagery of the property, it became clear to me that this is a unique situation.

Treespud's initial critique was a bit tongue-in-cheek (and I understand how the OP takes offence), but I thought made an import point. Given only the information provided by the OP early in the thread, it certainly appears to be a fairly knee-jerk conclusion, and many habitat management choices take many, many years to evaluate. As I look at all the information in the thread, I think the knee-jerk reaction was the OP's initial decision to establish food plots. It is a reaction that most of us have when we get started. It is hard not to with all the industry hype. So, the OP's posts are a great cautionary tale. It shows how important it is to evaluate the big picture before you begin and to consult professionals when needed. I had a very hard time restraining myself when we first acquired land. I was certain that food plots were necessary in my situation even before we called in state foresters, and game department and USDA biologists for consult, so I got started early. BIG MISTAKE! Why? Not because food plots were not necessary in my case, but because I did a lot of damage with a 2-bottom plow before learning about how important maintaining soil health is on marginal soils like ours. We are still recovering from my blunders.

I would suggest that before we all resort to ad homonym attacks, we look at the important things the OPs posts bring to the table as well as making sure it is clear to readers that this applies to specific situations like the OP's, and the thread title does not generally apply to most situations. Food plots, like all of the other habitat tools we apply are just tools. Properly applied they can be a Godsend and improperly applied they can be a "worthless".

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

I Agree, and I dont doubt there are valid points to be made in both directions. Doing absolutely nothing on a piece of property can be just as effective as doing a ton of projects. It just depends ... Ultimately their just deer,,,,, just deer........... and just plants.... plants!

 

[FarmerDan]

Before this thread gets out of control or locked, I think we are suffering from how the written word loses context compared to a face to face conversation. Take the thread title for a start "Food plots are worthless for hunting". The OP probably intended that to be a description of his experience on his property, and I think in his particular case he is probably right. However, most readers (me included) see that title as a provocative challenge to using food plots to enhance hunting in general. I think many of the posts were responses to that perceived challenge. We all tend to take our personal experiences and overgeneralize them. As the thread continued, especially after posting imagery of the property, it became clear to me that this is a unique situation.

Treespud's initial critique was a bit tongue-in-cheek (and I understand how the OP takes offence), but I thought made an import point. Given only the information provided by the OP early in the thread, it certainly appears to be a fairly knee-jerk conclusion, and many habitat management choices take many, many years to evaluate. As I look at all the information in the thread, I think the knee-jerk reaction was the OP's initial decision to establish food plots. It is a reaction that most of us have when we get started. It is hard not to with all the industry hype. So, the OP's posts are a great cautionary tale. It shows how important it is to evaluate the big picture before you begin and to consult professionals when needed. I had a very hard time restraining myself when we first acquired land. I was certain that food plots were necessary in my situation even before we called in state foresters, and game department and USDA biologists for consult, so I got started early. BIG MISTAKE! Why? Not because food plots were not necessary in my case, but because I did a lot of damage with a 2-bottom plow before learning about how important maintaining soil health is on marginal soils like ours. We are still recovering from my blunders.

I would suggest that before we all resort to ad homonym attacks, we look at the important things the OPs posts bring to the table as well as making sure it is clear to readers that this applies to specific situations like the OP's, and the thread title does not generally apply to most situations. Food plots, like all of the other habitat tools we apply are just tools. Properly applied they can be a Godsend and improperly applied they can be a "worthless".

Thanks,

Jack

To write is to bleed. Best be prepared.

If you write for public consumption you must be ready for the fusillade of bullets that will surely be fired at you.

 

[Bill]

Not locking it, yet.

It’s an interesting topic. I’ve seen good and bad from food plots. For me still heavy on the good side, but in certain places on my farm I’ve eliminated them because they didn’t work.

As for the insults, I hope they end. If both posters were new I wouldn’t let it roll. But Buck has been here a long time and I know he is passionate. Spud also has been here a long time and just kind of says what he thinks and has no problems taking a smack. Don’t think either will hold it long.

May not be fair to a new poster that comes in, crash and burn. but That’s life...

 

[BuckSutherland]

Before this thread gets out of control or locked, I think we are suffering from how the written word loses context compared to a face to face conversation. Take the thread title for a start "Food plots are worthless for hunting". The OP probably intended that to be a description of his experience on his property, and I think in his particular case he is probably right. However, most readers (me included) see that title as a provocative challenge to using food plots to enhance hunting in general. I think many of the posts were responses to that perceived challenge. We all tend to take our personal experiences and overgeneralize them. As the thread continued, especially after posting imagery of the property, it became clear to me that this is a unique situation.

Treespud's initial critique was a bit tongue-in-cheek (and I understand how the OP takes offence), but I thought made an import point. Given only the information provided by the OP early in the thread, it certainly appears to be a fairly knee-jerk conclusion, and many habitat management choices take many, many years to evaluate. As I look at all the information in the thread, I think the knee-jerk reaction was the OP's initial decision to establish food plots. It is a reaction that most of us have when we get started. It is hard not to with all the industry hype. So, the OP's posts are a great cautionary tale. It shows how important it is to evaluate the big picture before you begin and to consult professionals when needed. I had a very hard time restraining myself when we first acquired land. I was certain that food plots were necessary in my situation even before we called in state foresters, and game department and USDA biologists for consult, so I got started early. BIG MISTAKE! Why? Not because food plots were not necessary in my case, but because I did a lot of damage with a 2-bottom plow before learning about how important maintaining soil health is on marginal soils like ours. We are still recovering from my blunders.

I would suggest that before we all resort to ad homonym attacks, we look at the important things the OPs posts bring to the table as well as making sure it is clear to readers that this applies to specific situations like the OP's, and the thread title does not generally apply to most situations. Food plots, like all of the other habitat tools we apply are just tools. Properly applied they can be a Godsend and improperly applied they can be a "worthless".

Thanks,

Jack

I thought what I had typed was abundantly clear that I was referring too MY land, and MY land only and not anyone else's plots or land and that the title would get people to read it cause I wanted feedback and I was getting it. Never once did I even hint that I was talking about anyone else's land and say that plots are bad for hunting on their place and they should stop doing them. My first post dove into my 40 acres specifically in the first sentence. In the 3-4 post I made I was only sharing my thoughts of what I see on MY land and thought with the video could better explain my point.

I wasn't gonna type out the whole scenario in 1 post, but rather get a productive thread going so I could see if other parcels had similar experience. I've only owned the shit for 6+ years and really hunted for about 8 so its all pretty new to me. At no time did I think any other poster was being critical of me and I liked hearing their thoughts. That other BS post really pissed me off. There was nothing constructive about it. I dont care for being looked down upon by someone with many more DPSM than I'm dealing with. Northern MN can be a bitch to hunt that many of you couldnt fathom, but I love it up there and am not ready to quit. The rareness of seeing a big buck up close up there makes it that much more special and really gets the heart pumping. I dont need to shoot or kill a big buck every year to enjoy my hunting, but sure is nice to see them strolling on the property or finding rubs and scrapes all over. I'm just looking for ways to keep those big bastards around and its one of the few reason I post here.

 

[IkemanTx]

Man, this thread turned into archery talk in a hurry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TreeDaddy]

.......maybe start a spinoff thread......."Best Forum Feud"........."Forum Feud Hall of Fame"

.......several good nominees from the still young 2019

bill

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Bucksutherland, as I was reading this thread in the back of my mind I was wondering if you had a "doe factory" but never said it. A few things stand out with regard to your property.

1) Again, 40 acres is not a lot of land. Two hunters a day (or at least one guy every day) IMHO is a lot of pressure on those plots. I hunt 30 acres, with plots similar to yours, and basically I feel like I can throw a rock across the parcel at times. I know you said "it hunts bigger than it is." My response would be...and I'm not being snarky here...did you tell the deer that? I know exactly what you mean when you say that...because on my small 30 I have lots of diversity and it feels bigger than it is. But to a deer...40 acres is 40 acres no matter how big it feels to you, and hunting the same 40 acres, 2 guys a night at times, every day = a lot of pressure. Two hunters entering and egressing your stands each night, unless you're 100% undetected (and I don't personally think that's possible for anybody), on 40 acres is going to do a lot of damage over the course of a season. It does not surprise me that your buck sightings are crap.

2) Secondly, you don't have a lot of "depth of cover" on your land. That's a Sturgis term. Basically, your 3 plots and food trails are centered in the middle of your parcel and the area around them for bucks to call home is non-existent. You have good food and good bedding. That's great for does. And you acknowledged that....tons of does. Different doe groups can and will bed all around your plots, leaving no cover for bucks to bed. Again, now seeing your pic and learning a bit more, it doesn't surprise me that daytime pics and sightings of bucks is low.

One last salient point. To your north you have 70 acres of alfalfa...food. To your south you have 50 acres of prime bedding = cover. Smack dab in the middle is your parcel. That's a goldmine if the deer move in typical food to cover patterns. And if they don't, design your land to get them to move through it from food to cover. Instead of food plots maybe turn your 40 into some of the best travel corridors and bottlenecks that you can as deer move from food to cover and back again. Design your land with some small staging areas as deer move from bedding to food in the evening, and hunt those corridors and staging areas in the evening. And then catch them heading back to cover in the morning.

You have 1) great bedding and 2) great food and 3) 40 acres in between...but 4) no daytime sightings of bucks. I agree...food plots are not the answer in your situation.

 

[Catscratch]

Lol, did I call it or what!
Truth is everyone always thinks they are right, and when they get told they aren't (by someone who also thinks they are right) it's offensive. I have a very different circumstance than a lot of you in the way my land is configured with cover and plots. I hunt very different than most of you due to it. It works for me... BuckSutherland - I would dread hunting the place in your pic the way it's set up. Not that you've done anything wrong, I just can't imagine hunting it (my style) without bumping deer and pushing them nocturnal. I also have no real world understanding of your deer population. I follow another northern guy's land thread on a different forum and he has to do things very differently than I do because of the population differences. He is also happy with sightings so low that I would shift away from deer hunting and pursue something else if that was my reality. It's all very relative...