Food plots are worthless for hunting

[Baker]

" Learning deer behavior is always an ongoing learning process"

Yep and deer behavior is effected by many things. My ranch in mexico is 25,000 acres located in hundreds of thousands of acres of mostly uninhabited brush country. Do you think the deer there behave differently than deer in Wi. in a highly fragmented landscape with a redcoat behind every bush? What is interesting there is to observe deer that behave totally uninfluenced by man but rather by the natural rhythms of nature. The behavior patterns are probably much different than you may imagine.For example, they are nocturnal when weather patterns make it more comfortable to be nocturnal. They follow some daily movement pattern determined more by natural circadian rhythms and moon cycles than any influence by man.

They will show up at food sources whenever the cycle of nature has them showing up at food sources. Might be early , might be late. Might be middle of the day. Their escape patterns tend to reflect more what is required to escape a mountain lion than a hord of redcoats doing a drive. I contend that many [ most ] of the behavior patterns seen in deer are a perversion of their natural behaviors imposed by man and this can vary dramatically across the country by what man has done to the habitat as well as the interaction of man/deer.

Thus man has corrupted deers natural instincts as to how they might or might not use a food plot...or behave in general... and that is unique to the specific local.

 

[Rit]

So when is everyone ordering their 2019 Foodplot seed?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

So when is everyone ordering their 2019 Foodplot seed?

Done with spring seed order two-three weeks ago. Frost seeded Balansa Clover now waiting for heat and moisture. Will get plowed down for Sugar Beets and TNM for fall Brassica plots.

 

[IkemanTx]

So when is everyone ordering their 2019 Foodplot seed?

Already delivered...
going in the ground in a week or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Natty Bumppo]

You make a good point on adjusting your expectations based on your hunting situation. You did omit one important item to obtaining your deer hunting goals .... learn how to hunt deer.

I see folks coming on here, or read an article in the deer hunting made easy sites, and think they have found the holy grail solutions to all of their deer hunting problems. Plant food plots, hinge cut, apple trees, screening, buck beds, water holes, etc. ... then wonder why their hunting experience does not change? They then blame they habitat changes for the lack of their success.

For me, the habitat mgmt part is easy, learning deer behavior is always an ongoing learning process. Keep in mind when every time you change something in the habitat, and you are trying to change deer behavior, don't be surprised if the behavior change is not what you wanted.

I could not agree more Treespud. One gets the feeling that the entire idea of hunting deer has been turned on its head. Instead of using woodsmanship and outdoor skills to go out into the buck's habitat and hunt him there on his turf, we instead to everything we can to get the deer to come to us. Scents and lures and decoys and calls...to get the deer to come to us. Blockades and barriers and fence...to make the deer walk where we want. Sanctuaries and hinge cuts and buck beds...to make the deer bed where we want. Mock scrapes and rubbing posts and food plots that look like golf courses in the middle of the forest all in an attempt to attract deer to us.

Thinking that deer hunting is as easy sitting in a stand over some seed you planted banging a few antlers together under your Ozonics machine staring at decoy and tree you stuck in the ground for a rubbing post while you blow on your EZ grunter is a fool's paradise and IMHO can lead to much frustration. And unfortunately its a narrative that's played out ad nauseam on virtually every TV hunting show that airs, and I think it does harm to hunters, young and old, who don't know any better.

I would love to see a TV show where each episode they take a famous TV personality and give him a Remington pump .30-06, some bullets, a knife, a map and compass, and a sandwich and drop them off in the Maine woods and say "O.K....go kill a big buck." It would be a boring show!

 

[Mortenson]

I like the humor in your post Natty, and it's correct on many levels, but hunting is a whole different beast in parts of the world with tiny properties and numerous hunters. No need for compasses around here. If I tried tracking a buck, I'd get stopped by a fence after a couple hundred yards, and by that point in time, he'd probably be shot by the neighbors or pushed into a quarry, never to be seen in daylight again. We can't go after the deer. Pretty much need them to come to us, which means they need to come from somewhere unpressured. That could be a chunk of our own property that's been left alone, or a chunk of someone elses. We have 10, 20, 40 acre properties surrounding us that have multiple families hunting each property. It's like that all over the midwest. I'm not into calls and scents, and I loathe hunting shows, but I do need to find ways to outsmart the good deer. Sanctuaries and food are definitely two big keys.

 

[IkemanTx]

You make a good point on adjusting your expectations based on your hunting situation. You did omit one important item to obtaining your deer hunting goals .... learn how to hunt deer.

I see folks coming on here, or read an article in the deer hunting made easy sites, and think they have found the holy grail solutions to all of their deer hunting problems. Plant food plots, hinge cut, apple trees, screening, buck beds, water holes, etc. ... then wonder why their hunting experience does not change? They then blame they habitat changes for the lack of their success.

For me, the habitat mgmt part is easy, learning deer behavior is always an ongoing learning process. Keep in mind when every time you change something in the habitat, and you are trying to change deer behavior, don't be surprised if the behavior change is not what you wanted.

I could not agree more Treespud. One gets the feeling that the entire idea of hunting deer has been turned on its head. Instead of using woodsmanship and outdoor skills to go out into the buck's habitat and hunt him there on his turf, we instead to everything we can to get the deer to come to us. Scents and lures and decoys and calls...to get the deer to come to us. Blockades and barriers and fence...to make the deer walk where we want. Sanctuaries and hinge cuts and buck beds...to make the deer bed where we want. Mock scrapes and rubbing posts and food plots that look like golf courses in the middle of the forest all in an attempt to attract deer to us.

Thinking that deer hunting is as easy sitting in a stand over some seed you planted banging a few antlers together under your Ozonics machine staring at decoy and tree you stuck in the ground for a rubbing post while you blow on your EZ grunter is a fool's paradise and IMHO can lead to much frustration. And unfortunately its a narrative that's played out ad nauseam on virtually every TV hunting show that airs, and I think it does harm to hunters, young and old, who don't know any better.

I would love to see a TV show where each episode they take a famous TV personality and give him a Remington pump .30-06, some bullets, a knife, a map and compass, and a sandwich and drop them off in the Maine woods and say "O.K....go kill a big buck." It would be a boring show!

Natty, this reminds me of one of the biggest things I think helps me in my hunting experience.

I primarily hunt public land, and archery only. I threw 2 hunts at my dad’s place last year, and don’t think I will throw a single hunt at his place or the family 40 this season OR next. Private land is a very small portion of my hunting strategy.

I have always considered my father a VERY good hunter. He and my mother literally lived on the game he shot and the fish he caught in the 80’s. They couldn’t afford to eat otherwise. That experience has helped him always be able to, on private ground, instinctually know how the deer will travel through the place. He almost always ended up with the top buck out of a group of 10 guys hunting the lease we hunted on when I grew up.

BUT... after only 5 years of me hunting almost exclusively public archery, I am finding him deferring to me rather than to his own instinct. I think I have gained more knowledge in those 5 seasons than I did in the 15 prior. Between the two pieces of family land, there are 70 acres total. We can’t get more than a dozen sits on that combined land TOTAL from October 1 until January 10th or so when the season closes. If that was only one property, it would only be a half dozen sits total... between two of us.

I don’t care how careful you are, I don’t care how scent free you think you are, you WILL quickly push mature bucks out of a piece with what we consider infrequent intrusions. A big mature buck’s definition of secure doesn’t leave room for an intrusion a month, and definitely not 12 intrusions in 3 months worth of seasons. I see it within 2-3 sits on public land every year.

If the parcel of land is less than 150 acres (and even that is assuming very good access), you better spend most of your time hunting somewhere else and only hit the home place when it is absolutely perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I like the humor in your post Natty, and it's correct on many levels, but hunting is a whole different beast in parts of the world with tiny properties and numerous hunters. No need for compasses around here. If I tried tracking a buck, I'd get stopped by a fence after a couple hundred yards, and by that point in time, he'd probably be shot by the neighbors or pushed into a quarry, never to be seen in daylight again. We can't go after the deer. Pretty much need them to come to us, which means they need to come from somewhere unpressured. That could be a chunk of our own property that's been left alone, or a chunk of someone elses. We have 10, 20, 40 acre properties surrounding us that have multiple families hunting each property. It's like that all over the midwest. I'm not into calls and scents, and I loathe hunting shows, but I do need to find ways to outsmart the good deer. Sanctuaries and food are definitely two big keys.

That's so true Mortenson, and I get that. I can't even imagine hunting in situations like you describe. I wasn't judging. Maybe I came off that way. I can at times get caught up in the hype. I do have a few plots and I blow a grunt call every know and then. I think because here in the Northeast we have such a low deer density, that it forces you to go out and find them and then hunt where they are. Find a scrape line or a rub line....and hunt it. Find a natural sanctuary...and hunt it. Find a natural food source...and hunt it. And indeed I am blessed with endless and expansive big woods to do that. I can literally begin tracking bucks out my back door and walk for 8 or 9 hours and never come across another hunter, property line, or even a boot print in the snow. The trade off is that I also see very few deer, and harvest even fewer, in a typical season compared to hunters down south or out west in Ag country.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Natty, this reminds me of one of the biggest things I think helps me in my hunting experience.

I primarily hunt public land, and archery only. I threw 2 hunts at my dad’s place last year, and don’t think I will throw a single hunt at his place or the family 40 this season OR next. Private land is a very small portion of my hunting strategy.

I have always considered my father a VERY good hunter. He and my mother literally lived on the game he shot and the fish he caught in the 80’s. They couldn’t afford to eat otherwise. That experience has helped him always be able to, on private ground, instinctually know how the deer will travel through the place. He almost always ended up with the top buck out of a group of 10 guys hunting the lease we hunted on when I grew up.

BUT... after only 5 years of me hunting almost exclusively public archery, I am finding him deferring to me rather than to his own instinct. I think I have gained more knowledge in those 5 seasons than I did in the 15 prior. Between the two pieces of family land, there are 70 acres total. We can’t get more than a dozen sits on that combined land TOTAL from October 1 until January 10th or so when the season closes. If that was only one property, it would only be a half dozen sits total... between two of us.

I don’t care how careful you are, I don’t care how scent free you think you are, you WILL quickly push mature bucks out of a piece with what we consider infrequent intrusions. A big mature buck’s definition of secure doesn’t leave room for an intrusion a month, and definitely not 12 intrusions in 3 months worth of seasons. I see it within 2-3 sits on public land every year.

If the parcel of land is less than 150 acres (and even that is assuming very good access), you better spend most of your time hunting somewhere else and only hit the home place when it is absolutely perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boy did you hit the nail on the head. I agree. I hunt a 150 acre parcel...my 30 and my neighboring MIL's 120, and that can feel very small at times. Understanding just what you talked about has helped me to hunt smarter on this plot. I too hunt public land early in the season and when times and/or conditions are not perfect for my parcel.

 

[BuckSutherland]

HAAA.
You are correct sir. Last year I gave up. Told a farmer to take my main field. I mowed a little clover I have left. No habitat work. Left it alone. Shot my first Fing buck in 14 years....
Guess what.... I am done food plotting. :)

All I accomplished was pushing deer off on neighbors properties for many years while Fing around in the woods all summer. Neighbors whack and stack em as they come to eat our food. Lets fish more is my new motto!

BLB,

Didn't know you came around here anymore. That is awesome that you got a nice buck last year! It really makes me feel good about abandoning my plots to hear that you did just that and scored in the first year. Amazing. I should have too, but blew it. I think we are onto something here.

As much as I like the idea and theory of food plots it was just hurting the hunting for us. We had an absolute DOE factory with those plots in. I don't think I ever remember you complaining about that, just the neighbors. Maybe yours benefited from less intrusion and mine benefited from less social pressure from the reduced doe numbers. I had the most fall intrusion ever last year as I went in first few days of October and bud capped my spruce trees and I was all over the property. I stunk up the whole damn place, but a few weeks later them big boys started cruising around on our way better than previous years. We always have a couple doe groups around though even with no plots cause were across from an ag field.

I found some highly promising spots for next year on state land too. Clear cuts, meets fields, meets thick cover = lots of sign in after season scouting. One spot I had 13 different bucks on cam in late Oct/early Nov. Deer that made it through winter looked really good last week when I was up. They weren't thin and gross like a few years ago. They look fat and healthy. Gives me hope that hunting will be good by us this year if the wolves didn't get them. They weren't starving like a few years ago, that's for damn sure.

Sturgis has another video out the other day. I cant relate to A LOT of what he is saying here.

 

[BuckSutherland]

 

[eclipseman]

Boy did you hit the nail on the head. I agree. I hunt a 150 acre parcel...my 30 and my neighboring MIL's 120, and that can feel very small at times. Understanding just what you talked about has helped me to hunt smarter on this plot. I too hunt public land early in the season and when times and/or conditions are not perfect for my parcel.

Disagree. I have two properties which are 120 and 150 acres. We rotate hunting those two properties in NY every weekend. There are 3 of us who hunt them. We literally hunt the crap out of them and the big boys stick around BUT they do smarten up until the rut hits. I think you just need to be mindful of the wind.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Meh
Thats why it has to be repeaded over an over, every area is different.
Half of what Jeff talks about dosnt even remotely mirrow what I see.
There is ZERO chance I could create a doe factory, we just don't have the denisty.
We lost a good chunk of our population this past winter so I am trying to promote fawn recruitment.

Plus the number of times he says, "bucks, bucks, bucks" drives me nuts.

Im a habitat junky so I turn it on when making supper so I have something in the background. He cranks em out fast enough u can darn near predict what he is gunna say.

Will give him credit
Ive read and liked a few of his books.
Worth the purchase to have on the bookshelve.

 

[IkemanTx]

Meh
Thats why it has to be repeaded over an over, every area is different.
Half of what Jeff talks about dosnt even remotely mirrow what I see.
There is ZERO chance I could create a doe factory, we just don't have the denisty.
We lost a good chunk of our population this past winter so I am trying to promote fawn recruitment.

Plus the number of times he says, "bucks, bucks, bucks" drives me nuts.

Im a habitat junky so I turn it on when making supper so I have something in the background. He cranks em out fast enough u can darn near predict what he is gunna say.

Will give him credit
Ive read and liked a few of his books.
Worth the purchase to have on the bookshelve.

I’m in the same situation as you as far as low density.
I could run summer plots for a decade and not have enough social pressure to drive bucks away. The county biologist told me the last DPSM census for the county was 2.5

2.5 is nothing....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nova]

Just like everyone else he is trying to sell a product, in this case the product is him. I watch his videos, but you have to take his message with a grain of salt. I can tolerate better than half of what he says, but just tolerate it. Let's just say I would not hire him to consult on our farm.

 

[SwampCat]

I hunt public about as much as I do private. I spend a fair bit of time scouting the public, looking for trails, scrapes, acorns dropping, bedding areas, etc - probably more time spent scouting than I spend hunting. And I have some success. Usually, When I hunt my own ground, I check my game cam pics, I see which way the wind is blowing, and then decide which food plot to set on. BUT - if we considered total effort per buck killed - my effort on my private land is much greater - both in labor and financial. Spraying, mowing, disking, planting, fertilizing, running game cams, predator management, equipment purchase and maintenance. It just seems easier when you wake up in the morning, see which way the wind is blowing, and go sit in a heated box stand. You tend to forget the long, hard hours and expense the previous ten months to allow you to do that. Yes, I have much more time and expense into my private land bucks than I do my public land bucks.

 

[TreeDaddy]

just re read through this thread

another timeless debate

transition zones vs food plots for stand sites

bill

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Disagree. I have two properties which are 120 and 150 acres. We rotate hunting those two properties in NY every weekend. There are 3 of us who hunt them. We literally hunt the crap out of them and the big boys stick around BUT they do smarten up until the rut hits. I think you just need to be mindful of the wind.

I'm a little confused by what you disagree with. You said that the bucks smarten up as you guys hunt the crap out of your land. My comment was that 120 to 150 is a small parcel that makes me hunt smarter, not necessarily more.

But, if I understand you....3 guys rotate hunting 2 different 120 to 150 acres every other weekend? That does not seem like a lot of pressure to me? Unlike you, I hunt almost every afternoon and every weekend...from mid October, to the end of December. That's "hunting the crap" out of a parcel. And if you think you can get away with that for 2.5 months on a small 150 acre parcel and get away with it, you are a better hunter than I am. Which is exactly why I hunt public land early in the season and hunt my land smarter....for example, hunting the wind religiously.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Very good buck sign on my land again WITHOUT the food plots this year. I have 4 8pt bucks on camera and they are moving during the day, and I think 3 of them are bedding there cause I have them on camera a lot. The 4th and biggest one comes less often and is probably the only one I would shoot. There are a few smaller ones, but they arent around as much. The big 10pt I missed last year is still hanging around. Dont have him on camera yet, but I'm guessing I will. I saw him 3 times since August in the field and he is a great buck. As the woods browns up the field across the road will get hot, and our land becomes a bedding magnet. I think there are only 2 does and 3 fawns that are calling my 40 home. That number will tick up as the field draws the deer from now until snow cover.

Scrape usage is about to go way up. I made several mock scrapes around stand locations and they are just starting to get pawing and fighting by them. Pretty excited for this year.

 

[SwampCat]

My place is just the opposite. I have multiple food plots with clover and multiple bucks using them until the clover dries up late August and September. Many of them leave the property when that happens. As soon as I get some rain in Oct and things start greening up, a lot of those bucks will return. It is all about food on my place.