Food plot layout?

[dipper]

I'm converting my infamous rye experimental plot to mostly nwsg. I hope you guys can be of some help in regards to a layout of one food plot....I'm thinking about 2 acres. Here is the outlaying area surrounding the plot.

I'm focusing on the field in the middle.

This is a shot from the north west part of the field. The more yellow portion is already planted in nwsg. The field is currently compressed to 5 acres. I want to use the topography to make the most secure plot. Here is the elevation I have.

 

[dipper]

I own the bedding cover to the east and west of the field. The backwards L little fields are in nwsg. The 40 to the south is my neighbor who farms that field. It rotates between corn and alfalfa. I own the fields to the north and north east. They are rotated between alfalfa and corn.
Basically the deer will end up coming from the west, east and south.
I already sprayed the rye where I want my plot to be, but I want a second opinion from you guys. My rational is to takeadvantage of the better soil in the hallows. 100 years of tillage made it this way.

 

[dipper]

My current design is an hour glass shape, with the narrow part coming together via two knolls.
I dumped around 30 deer off and around this plot last year. This is my south end. I had around 60 antler less on my north end going into winter. That's where the doe focus will be this year.
We've had two booners harvested on this south end over the years. A few 150s and a good amount of 130s. I want to turn this field into a paradise. It has thepotential. I just want to optimize it.
Thanks for your help in advance

 

[dipper]

Eventually the farthest field to the ne will be nwsg. Right now I'm doing this all on my own, no crp contracts. I have the freedom to plant pockets of spruce in the nwsg. I think that's going to be a benefit. There is a couple areas in the topography where a cluster of pines will seal the deal.

 

[dipper]

Here is a topo. Rough drawing of the fields. My converted plot will be east of the backwards l. It is between 6-12 degree slop on the field

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Dipper, just to make sure I have this right

On the attached pic, the green area is your cereal rye and the areas I have colored in yellow are NGs. What's currently in the Red and Blue?

You want to put your new plot in the low areas to the south of the green plot, in the yellow, on my drawing, right?

You're doing this to take advantage of the better soils.

I assume you still want to hunt this new plot though, right? How important is that to you (low impact and effectiveness of the stands the new plot would create) vrs taking advantage of these better soils?

I'll probably have more ?s after these and I'll be out all day tomorrow. So, please bear with me.

 

[dipper]

Here is a little better explanation

The red is a mixture of NWSG, pine spruce.
The yellow outline around the field is just NWSG. I will eventually be adding pockets of spruce and pine. The NWSG will be controlled mechaniclly and with herbicide if needed. I want the freedom to add the pine spruce because I think the deer will like it better than NWSG. I'm cheap, but I don't need to be in a CRP program. I want freedom.
The green is the current rye, just a rectangle field...5 acres
The blue is what I sprayed as the food plot outline It is basically a V the narrows up between two knolls, and will widden back up a little as you move south.
My coloring isn't the best cause I did it on my phone, and I have fat fingers.
Black lines are access/ entry points. I basically own all the woodded area you see. It is a mixture of gently rolling hills, a few large steep hills and flat swamp. I am constantly logging various locations, depending on my supply and the timber market. Plus I burn and sell firewood. The timber consists of 50 year red pine/ spruce, mature ash, maple, white pine, balsams. Regeneration is getting better due to the fact I'm shooting 40 does a year.
Timber extends around a mile east and west. My ag fields to the north are the only fields for 3/4 mile as you go north.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

No worries on the coloring. This isn't an art show, as my quick and dirty drawing revealed, as well.

OK, I think I'm with you on that portion now. I still have a couple questions though.

What's more important to you in this...Feeding deer or making it easier to kill them?

How well did that the 5 acres of cereal rye mix you planted last year hold up over winter? I know deer were feeding in it heavy all year, but was it able to keep up or was it eaten down to the dirt. If down to the dirt, about when did that happen and is it important to you to have food stretch as close to spring as you can get it (I think I know the answer, but I try not to assume)?

Sorry for all the ?s, but the answers will play heavily into my suggestions. I have to understand what someone is striving to achieve, if I hope my advice will be of any value at all.

 

[dipper]

No worries on the coloring. This isn't an art show, as my quick and dirty drawing revealed, as well.

OK, I think I'm with you on that portion now. I still have a couple questions though.

What's more important to you in this...Feeding deer or making it easier to kill them?

How well did that the 5 acres of cereal rye mix you planted last year hold up over winter? I know deer were feeding in it heavy all year, but was it able to keep up or was it eaten down to the dirt. If down to the dirt, about when did that happen and is it important to you to have food stretch as close to spring as you can get it (I think I know the answer, but I try not to assume)?

Sorry for all the ?s, but the answers will play heavily into my suggestions. I have to understand what someone is striving to achieve, if I hope my advice will be of any value at all.

Steve there is 100 acres of ag fields to the north and NE. They feed the deer, and that activity almost always happens at night. It is rare to see a mature buck on the ag fields during the day. They will be on camera at night. The only time you could have a slight chance of seeing one during the day is if one is out there with a hot doe. I leave corn and beans on these ag fields, and I don't cut my alfalfa/ clover to the dirt leading into fall. So no, this plot is going to be more of a kill type situation. The spot already is a kill situation, mature bucks have always felt comfortable in this field during daylight.
I just don't need all that food anymore. The current 5 acre plot wasn't chewed to the ground like it had been years past. The recent ultra aggressive doe harvest has knocked the population dow big time. It is so enjoyable seeing the habitat appreciate it. I only had around 18 deer living on this entire south end all winter. In years prior, there was 60 plus.
It's always been super easy getting to and from this field without spooking deer. The elevation and topography while accessing from the north, is darn near perfect where I have my black access path. Elevation of the fields conceals me if there is deer feeding on the west end of the ag fields, or in that far east field.
I shot a 157"er one year that was chewing on my rye all by himself an hour before dark on the friday of gun season. There were does feeding on the ag fields when I got out there. I never spooked them, I just took my path outlined and shot the buck on the field I am converting. The plot design I have above reflects where deer always seem to filter too while they are feeding, well before I planted any NWSG or conifers.
We hunt the perimeter of my neighbor's field to the south. We bump a few deer on the line walking in or out since he logged his woods around that field. But it's mostly does, and it's worth the risk due to the fact I've got plenty of bedding spots on my land and some sweet funnels/ pinch points.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Now, take this with a grain of salt. I couldn't do a perfect job of matching the field shot to the topography shot, but I like what you are trying to do with putting food in the low spot, where deer feel safer and the soil is better. My initial concern looking at it is how do you effectively hunt it.

So, here's my quick thoughts, for what little it's worth. Why not create some food fingers off that low spot leading them to the larger ag field and out of the NGs/spruce planting you have to the West? Follow the topography as best you can (which means my design is no doubt off a bit...I always use a site that has contour overlays on the photo to better position stuff like this).

So, here's what I'm thinking. The blue is obviously your new food plot design. Plant all the rest in spruce, NGs and either toss some shrubs and trees out there with it or let them grow up naturally. Allow the entire area around your plot to become awesome bedding, just don't do as good of a job of that along the east or north sides (the shaded areas), to discourage deer from bedding close to the stands/access route. I'd just let them grow up naturally, myself.

The new blue channel I added off the low spot on the east side is actually wider than I meant it to be. I probably wouldn't make it any more than 50 yards wide (narrower if shooting range limits are less) and slowly tapper it down to no more than 30 yards wide where it hits the woods on the north side. The fingers off the area you were already eyes/sprayed, probably no more than 20 yards wide.

The green line along the NE & SE corners are feathered screening/blockades. That way you're forcing the deer bedding to the east to enter and exit between the stands covering it, offering safer winds. I'd make my stand access routes behing that feathering, in the woods, if the deer aren't bedding too close to bogger that approach. if they are, you could add some screening to the plot side of the edge feathering to sneak between it and the edge.

I'd "plant" scrape trees and put a water hole at all 3 locations the plot "leaves" the field. I'd also do a little hinging and open a pock inside it in the portion of the woods the 2 access trails form an upside down Y. I'd like them to feel really comfortable staging there before entering the main field after dark. So, I'd be sure that in my little opening (15ish yards in diameter) there'd be plenty of licking branches and trees suitable for rubbing. If they didn't exist, I'd "plant" them.

PLEASE, take all of this with a grain of salt, as I'd still be asking more ?s under normal circumstances and not having the topo overlay handicaps me. Even if you like this idea. whether you agree or not, I'm sure you get what I'm trying to do here...I'm trying to create a flow of deer traffic through what will be bedding cover that lends itself to lower impact stand locations. HOWEVER, IF you do go for this or a variation of it, don't hesitate to shift any of this in one direction or the other, to better follow topography and nature deer flow.

My thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

 

[dipper]

Crap I'm getting so many pictures of this place in photobucket I deleted them and they are gone here too.

Steve you sure know what you are talking about, and I can see how you can help alot of people. thank you, but I'd prefer to keep the food off that east end. Your stand locations are great spots to hunt already, but little is needed. The pink line on the SE corner of the field is a real steep drop off, the deer are already forced to use the 2 purple dots, and the gray is general travel locations. I already have hunting set up in all the purple dots. I don't see how it will help me having food on that east end because they are going to cross where you have stand locations anyway, that ledge hinders travel.
That is a great idea extending that finger of food to the NW, I am going to do that. As you see, I already have a stand there, and it is a good spot. It is probably best to just give them a yellow brick road of food coming from that corner.
The big purple dot with the blue lines coming from it are a gun stand. I have lanes where the blue lines are, and I test my shooting skills .
The red Dot on the north field is a bowl, outlined by the pink. Big bucks have no problem using that bowl, so I have a bow stand where the purple dot is.
Thanks for reminding me on the water source. I have a back hoe, and can have that done by the end of the week. You make up alot of great points, thanks again,

 

[Steve Bartylla]

No prob, Dipper. Not that you "need" me to tell you this, but, based on the ledge/natural funnel info you share above, I agree with you. No need to have food help funnel deer where they are already funneled into going anyway. It would just make access and departure a little more tricky, without any real extra pay off.

Good luck. I really like the setup and possibilities back there.

 

[dipper]

There also is a food plot down where the arrow is outside the picture.

I also have more east wind set ups that I need. Since I'm drawing deer from the west to that small food plot you can't see, I'd sooner just try to keep them going that way. If they want to go over the hill another 100 yards to where I'm thinking of putting the plot, I would think there isn't much stopping them??? Unless u think different?
I'm gonna say it again Steve I can tell you have an eye for this. Being able to identify locations on my property that are already favored tells me a lot. Especially since I've been one of your biggest critics. Haha
I'm starting to understand how you can help a lot of people optimize what land they have. I'm not gonna say that about some of your peers though
Does also don't mind bedding in the orange circles. Once I add more cover, it will likely become more appealing to bed. Hate to flush the deer if I don't have too.

 

[dipper]

Oh- it's kinda funny how you bring up that east end though. As crazy as this sounds that wood lot often seems to be some type of territorial boundary for deer.
It is uncommon for the same doe family groups to use that east end hallow, and food plot where the the arrow is. I also run cameras at both locations and it is very common to have totally different bucks at both spots.
For some reason the hunting is a little better farther east, outside the picture.
That's another reason I was thinking about staying out of the east side of that field once it turns into cover. I guess I'll see. Another nice part about not being in a crp program, I can change things up 5 years from now.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

If they want to go over the hill another 100 yards to where I'm thinking of putting the plot, I would think there isn't much stopping them??? Unless u think different?
.

First, with you owning that timber around there, and the lay out of the place, I'm honestly envious. For whatever it's worth, I think you're on to something with what you're aiming at. You give them even better cover yet and focus feeding in a way that helps snake them by a stand site or two and I could really see you dragging a good one out of there....not going to make any ridiculous claims like 180s on a routine basis, but I honest don't see why you couldn't take a mature buck out of there considerably more years than not (always going to have a down year every now and then, for any assortment of reasons) and 2 on good numbers of years.

what are the yellow dots? I'm assuming the purple dots are stands.

I don't think you have to have food on the east side. I was sincerely just trying to put what I saw as likely natural movement on steroids and create a funnel. According to your response, you already have both the natural movement and funnel there (with the drop/shelf)

With the natural segregation you are describing, that new food plot location to the east sounds like a slam dunk idea. Take that with a grain of salt, since I can't see it and it's always possible there's something truly messed up with the spot. however, since you were already considering doing so, I'm sure the spot is fine. At the same time, you'd be providing decreased social stress for both the bucks and the does, through the segregation, allowing you to comfortably hold more, but not divide things up to the point of making the action so diluted as to make guessing where Mr. big will be too much of a roll of the dice, if all that makes sense.

I personally wouldn't yank those 2 stand locations you have on the W and S sides, taking advantage of the shelf funnel. I can understand and completely agree that they should be hunted very sparingly, but I'd want to have them as options. That way, when you're sitting in the stand on the NW side, you should be able to spot a good buck if he comes from that area. You see that a couple times and you can move in for the kill. I just wouldn't hunt them unless a buck I wanted to kill was telling me to. If he was, I wouldn't hesitate to move in and take him out ASAP.

Between your two lowest impact purple dots, you appear to be great for any wind out of the S. looks like you could use a low impact stand or 2 for winds out of the N. I don't know what the new, off pic food plot area looks like, but I'd try hard to make myself 1 or 2 there.

Seeing that the does are bedding right in the staging area I originally wanted you to create, I'm even more on board with scraping the food on the E I was trying to get you to add. I'd just run with your original sprayed area and add that "yellow brick road" to help funnel them past your existing setup on the N. Doing so will also funnel them even more naturally into the lower spot in the field you have drawn in that you also have a stand on. Looks like most will go there naturally anyway, but if a little extra nudge gets Mr. Big to do it once when he otherwise wouldn't have, and you happen to be sitting up there that day, added bonus time.

I'm gonna say it again Steve I can tell you have an eye for this. Being able to identify locations on my property that are already favored tells me a lot. Especially since I've been one of your biggest critics. Haha
I'm starting to understand how you can help a lot of people optimize what land they have. I'm not gonna say that about some of your peers though

Gotta admit, you've rendered me a bit speechless with that, and you have to know by now, that ain't easy to do. So, I'll just say thanks. That's high praise from you. Oh, and I don't blame you on at least some of the "peers" thing.

P.S. Again, take this with a grain of salt, as I can't see it. However, I'd put my $ on that main plot we've been discussing as your slam dunk honey hole. Just with the way the swamp lays, terrain flow, the overall food layout and all that NG/evergreen cover you have and will be adding, that area is a natural magnet. The plot you add to the East most likely won't be as good, but I'm as sure as I can be without seeing it that it will be worth the effort, PARTICULARLY with the natural segregation effect you already describe.

 

[dipper]

The yellow dot are some natural heavy deer trails ^^^^^^^

This is a shot to the east. That opening at the end of the arrow is a 1.8 acre food plot. Basically the terrian dumps down hill from the ag fields. The red outlined area also dumps down to the food plot. It is currently 6 year old red pines, but I have the area sprayed and maintained with oust. It is basically infested with 4' high smartweed and other vascular plants. There is also a couple deep ravines in there, so the deer have no problem bedding in it already.
I basically enter the food plot by that arrow. The purple dot is a natural funnel, and great bow spot. It's about 300 yards from the original field we were talking about, which is marked with the orange dot. The green dots are my uncle's land, we are on the same team. The neighbor to the north owns around 700 acres.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Yeah, that will work fine, Dipper, and should accomplish what you are going for well (sucking the deer over from the east side of that other plot).

I picked up on it that you have other stands you haven't shown in this thread, but I'd still seriously consider doing some edge feathering/blockade type work along the S side of this latest food plot, to make it so you can set a stand along the SW edge (that little point to the SE of the existing stand may work...not as great for covering that pinch/funnel, but gives me the wind I'm looking for, IF I can stop them from coming in from behind me) and safely hunt it with a wind out of the NW. I'd slap a little water hole over here and a scrape tree, also. I put both on dang near every food plot I create and am rarely sorry.

 

[dipper]

This red line is currently a combination of berms, rocks piles and hinge cut.

I don't care to do the same thing around the plot. I want to preserve the natural beauty of the terrain. It is very good cover to the west of my blockades. I only have between 100-150 yard shots gun hunting, and a few spots for bow hunting. One of which is the south end butting up to my neighbor.
I've got a lot of stuff going on and its funny how you are pointing things out that I already have. I've got hinges and small clear cuts scattered. I also have clumps of spruce and balsam in the "ash swamp" habitat. I don't care for "solid" blocks of cover. I want the height of my habitat going up and down. I would probably turn the screen into a rainbow if I started marking everything I have.
I just don't care to berm things up around the newly designed food plot, which could easily be done. Doing that would take away from the scenic pleasure I am trying to achieve.

 

[dipper]

Steve I should have voiced my intent right off the bat. My goal for this plot is to:
1) increase cover and security around this food plot to encourage more bedding on this 40 acres. This includes inproving the bedding appeal to the wood lot seperating this field and my neighbor to the south. Historically, this 40 has been more of a "travel" hunting scenerio. There hasn't been alot of bedding taking place.
2)and most importantly-Try to pull deer away from using my neighbor's ag field to the south, and use this "smaller" more efficient food plot.
I'm not worried about pulling deer from any other direction. We basically control everything to the east. I control a good portion to the west. The next fields west are 3/4s of a mile away. I can't compete drawing all the deer from the west, but I'm in the game. I just want attract and draw more deer from the south, that would otherwise be using my neighbor's property.
I think 1 and 2 feed off each other. Creating better cover will encourage the deer to bed closer to this new food plot, and make them feel more comfortable. The deer are coming from my property if they go to my neighbor's field or not. I just want to make it more appealing on my side of the fence. Hell-maybe the old buck in the neighborhood will really like the place more than ever.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

We may be confusing each other, now. My last post above was exclusively for the eastern most food plot.

So, wrapping up, my suggestion would be as follows:

Go essentially with what you sprayed on your "infamous rye plot", only extend it to give them that "yellow brick road" to the NW corner, past the stand you already have there, and slap a water hole within shooting distance of that stand (and "plant" a scrape tree to help draw, position and stop them there...I'd "plant" in right in the middle of the 20ish yard wide "yellow brick road" to really give it appeal). The extra cover you're adding and that food plot layout in and of itself should help suck deer in from the south I just wouldn't add the spruce to the shaded band I have on the N end, as I don't want deer bedding right there, or you'll bust them climbing into your stand.

If you REALLY want to put that movement flow on steroids, you could add the shaded blue "yellow brick roads" coming in off the south. Now, IF you decide to do that, I'd adjust for topography (the topo map is gone...So I just winged it, but I suspect you get the general idea of what I'm trying to do...just create a "flow" of deer from the areas you want to pull them from). Adding any of the shaded stuff is just a cherry on top/optional, in my mind, and not a "must do"

Creating some enhanced bedding to the south of all of this would do nothing but help. You could then get fancy and add "sidewalks" to help lead them to this plot. I do believe both would help, but adding the extra cover and creating that flow with food is a huge step, IMO.

AND, all of this ultimately leads them to that low spot in your large field to the N of this newly designed plot and added cover. From there, as you know, they have no issue filtering into the more exposed areas of that main ag field to feed after dark, only to generally start filtering back to the areas they feel safer before first light.



Now, on the other, Eastern most plot, I'd go with what you have, only add a stand (yellow dot), some edge feathering/blockade (green line) and slap a water hole and scrape tree(s) within shooting distance of the 2 stands. No doubt, creating a berm would be very effective, but you could just edge feather it (like I have pics showing in the Sample Plan thread http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/sample-plan.355/page-3 ) Maybe that will still take away from the aesthetics too much for your taste, but it would grow in and look a lot nicer than a berm, and even give you that up and down look to your habitat. The entire reason I'm trying to do that is give you a safe stand to hunt a wind out of the NW, as that seems to be what you're missing in food plot stands with this work.


Regardless of if you do all this or just parts of it, I agree. Add the protective cover to the food and the odds of the local old timer wanting to spend more time on your place increase. I see what you're going for and think you're going about it right. At this point, we're just talking details, and they're always more than one way to skin a cat.

Now, I have to get my sorry butt to work