Fertilizing oak trees.

[Telemark]

I do.

It's the soil food web work done by Elaine Ingham. She's got one presentation that will get you 90% of the way. If you don't wanna watch the whole thing, just watch from 1:04:20 and stick it out for about three minutes. You'll get the cliff notes of the idea.

Interesting. I take issue with her description of where wild strawberries grow. I've never seen them in the understory of an established forest. I've only seen them growing along gravel roads in full sun.

But I like what she said about helping rice farmers in Southeast Asia increase yields with soil biology. I am currently in Southeast Asia trying to convince chili farmers to use a new type of organic farming to increase yields, and soil biology was the main topic of the discussion. I'm back in HCMC for the holidays, but after Tet we will be back out to Dong Nai province to prepare a test field. The land is extremely poor, so it's a real stress test. It's bone dry now with a water table below ten meters, and it literally floods in the rainy season. I'll watch that whole video when I get a chance. I think she might have some good information I could use. It would be very helpful to know how she was able to change the soil biology after a field has been inundated. Currently the farmers who grow on this plot lose about half their plants, probably to disease due to the abysmal health of the soil.

 

[SD51555]

Interesting. I take issue with her description of where wild strawberries grow. I've never seen them in the understory of an established forest. I've only seen them growing along gravel roads in full sun.

But I like what she said about helping rice farmers in Southeast Asia increase yields with soil biology. I am currently in Southeast Asia trying to convince chili farmers to use a new type of organic farming to increase yields, and soil biology was the main topic of the discussion. I'm back in HCMC for the holidays, but after Tet we will be back out to Dong Nai province to prepare a test field. The land is extremely poor, so it's a real stress test. It's bone dry now with a water table below ten meters, and it literally floods in the rainy season. I'll watch that whole video when I get a chance. I think she might have some good information I could use. It would be very helpful to know how she was able to change the soil biology after a field has been inundated. Currently the farmers who grow on this plot lose about half their plants, probably to disease due to the abysmal health of the soil.

I've got lots of wild strawberries up by me in the woods. Trouble is, most of them never produce a berry, and if they do, they're pee sized and all seeds.

 

[Teeder]

I've got lots of wild strawberries up by me in the woods. Trouble is, most of them never produce a berry, and if they do, they're pee sized and all seeds.

Same here. If there's any break in the canopy, then there will probably be strawberry.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I have some of those little strawberries occasionally. They are indeed small, but they are the most tasty little berries on the planet. Same goes for my raspberry patches. Absolutely delicious. I dont pass by berries in my woods without eating as many as I can.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Since I've spent decades in the outdoors, I'll add this on berries. The best ones I've found here in Pa. (wild strawberries or raspberries) got a good amount of sunlight - but also got some shade during the day. Maybe they didn't dry out as much as full sun all day???

I agree with Buck on the taste of wild berries .......... nothing like them, IMO.

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^

I would agree with that 100%. My best raspberry patches receive 60-80% sunlight with some occasional shade. I have plans to try a weed mat, mulch, cage and fertilize some of my best raspberry patches this summer. I broadcast a pop can of 19-19-19 fertilizer into one patch last year and it really pumped out the berries. The berry size was noticeably bigger than non fertilized patches. They like to grow just about anywhere on my land once the overhead trees are removed.



The few strawberries I have only grow in the open, but it seems after a few years ferns, grass, etc overtakes them.



I also marked a bunch of chokecherry trees with fluorescent paint last season. I wanna get to work removing the aspen and ash from around those trees this year. I have a decent supply of them marked so far.

 

[Angus 1895]

Here’s some chokecherry sprouts

 

[Telemark]

Since I've spent decades in the outdoors, I'll add this on berries. The best ones I've found here in Pa. (wild strawberries or raspberries) got a good amount of sunlight - but also got some shade during the day. Maybe they didn't dry out as much as full sun all day???

I agree with Buck on the taste of wild berries .......... nothing like them, IMO.

I think across most of the US, this is accurate. There are some black raspberry thickets growing on the edge of an abandoned sports field near my parents in Ohio, and they are growing mostly in the southeast corner of the field. They get full direct sunlight only a portion of the day, and most of they day they get dappled sunlight.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Buck -
Those chokecherry trees look great. I wish ours were that big already!! We planted a number of them at camp & caged them, but they're still young. Planted them in a strip about 15 yards wide between food plots. They get tons of sun. How long until they produce and how's their growth rate?

Sorry for getting off the oak fertilizing. Buck's pics got me revved-up!

 

[Angus 1895]

A wild plum!

 

[BuckSutherland]

Buck -
Those chokecherry trees look great. I wish ours were that big already!! We planted a number of them at camp & caged them, but they're still young. Planted them in a strip about 15 yards wide between food plots. They get tons of sun. How long until they produce and how's their growth rate?

Sorry for getting off the oak fertilizing. Buck's pics got me revved-up!

The trees in these pictures are approximately 10-12 years old. They have never been given any care and grew naturally on their own. They have kind of been outcompeted by the surrounding trees. Mostly aspen, ash and some basswood. I've cut a little competition down with the silky, but have much more to do.


With premium care (weed mat, mulch, cage or tube) I don't see any reason why I couldn't get them producing within 6-8 years on my land. It might even be sooner than that with optimal conditions and care.

 

[Angus 1895]

What is your recommendation on weed mats?

what brand?

How big, etc?

Thanks!

 

[BuckSutherland]

What is your recommendation on weed mats?

what brand?

How big, etc?

Thanks!

I have tried just about everything in this order.

1. First it was big calendars. They worked, and helped get my trees growing right away, but they fell apart after 90-120 days.
2. Then I tried cardboard. Same results as the big calendars.
3. Next up was leftover seed bags from my farming operation. Those made it about 1 year and weeds started coming through.
4. Fourth up was cheap 3x3 fabric from Amazon. Sucked to work with and only made it 12-18 months.
5. Fifth I tried synthetic roofing felt. I'm a roofing contractor and always have some leftovers.

6. I finally stopped being an idiot and bought HEAVY DUTY 4x4 weed barrier (minimum 5oz). I like Dewitt pro and Vevor. The heavier the better. I will NEVER skimp on weed mat ever again. Now I never have to redo any weed mats. Being cheap initially cost me lots of time and money redoing weed mats.


I like to buy 4 foot by 250 or 300' rolls. I cut them all with a simple utility knife. Blades are super cheap. I like a 4x4 size weed matt. Its nearly twice as big as a 3x3 mat. Nearly mandatory IMO to put mulch ontop of heavy duty fabric and your little seedlings will go into blastoff mode. I will NEVER let an important tree or shrub compete with grass and weeds for moisture and nutrients ever again. Its that important!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks for the info on the chokecherries. I guess we'll throw down some 10-10-10 around them and see how they respond. No tree competition near them - wide open on the E, S, and W sides.

 

[Angus 1895]

The things I have learned about chokecherry is the following.

1. they are toxic for grazing.

2. a caterpillar likes them

3. they can get infected with a midge

4. they are tough and hardy and make delicious /cherries for jams, jelly’s, wine/ mead

 

[BuckSutherland]

Thanks for the info on the chokecherries. I guess we'll throw down some 10-10-10 around them and see how they respond. No tree competition near them - wide open on the E, S, and W sides.

Take your shovel and inject the fertilizer into the ground 10-12" deep about 12-16" from the central leader. Then try some weed suppression and a cheap bag of mulch. Then tell us how good those trees do. They will go into blast off mode, especially in full sun.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Take your shovel and inject the fertilizer into the ground 10-12" deep about 12-16" from the central leader. Then try some weed suppression and a cheap bag of mulch. Then tell us how good those trees do. They will go into blast off mode, especially in full sun.

I learned similar lessons as the ones you described

Why do you put mulch on top of weed mats?

Moisture retention and temperature ?

bill

 

[BuckSutherland]

I learned similar lessons as the ones you described

Why do you put mulch on top of weed mats?

Moisture retention and temperature ?

bill

^^^


1. Moisture retention ( I lost very few trees in 3 consecutive years of severe-extreme drought).
2. So the seedlings don't get cooked (it happens WAY more without mulch)
3. To protect the weed mat from the sun, breaking down and falling apart and letting weed competition through prematurely (especially cheap material).
4. Extra weight to starve and kill weeds and grass that previously existed underneath the weed mat. I'm often planting into grass and ferns. Need to take away ALL oxygen and sunlight from them for swift death. This allows the roots of your seedling to immediately take over. The decomposing weed roots make for nice worm food. The cool underside of the weed mat also make a great place for worms to hangout. Worms make organic matter for young seedlings to consume. I have had ferns, fiddle heads, and even volunteer trees push aggressively against the underside of my weed mats in my woods without additional weight on top.


It doesn't always have to be real mulch. I love to grab "natural" mulch from my woods when its available. The weight and sun protection is what is most important. Bags are just much easier for what I'm doing. I have done a couple hundred trees the way shown below and it always works great. DONT LET THE MULCH COME IN CONTACT WITH THE TREE.. Dont wanna get a rotten spot on the young tree bark. If I get a little against the seedling I just reach over the cage with my wolverine shovel and pull it back an inch or two.


It is my firm belief after many years of doing this and thousands of trees planted that the mulch is worth the effort. So much so that I WILL NOT go without it ever again!!

 

[omicron1792]

^^^


1. Moisture retention ( I lost very few trees in 3 consecutive years of severe-extreme drought).
2. So the seedlings don't get cooked (it happens WAY more without mulch)
3. To protect the weed mat from the sun, breaking down and falling apart and letting weed competition through prematurely (especially cheap material).
4. Extra weight to starve and kill weeds and grass that previously existed underneath the weed mat. I'm often planting into grass and ferns. Need to take away ALL oxygen and sunlight from them for swift death. This allows the roots of your seedling to immediately take over. The decomposing weed roots make for nice worm food. The cool underside of the weed mat also make a great place for worms to hangout. Worms make organic matter for young seedlings to consume. I have had ferns, fiddle heads, and even volunteer trees push aggressively against the underside of my weed mats in my woods without additional weight on top.


It doesn't always have to be real mulch. I love to grab "natural" mulch from my woods when its available. The weight and sun protection is what is most important. Bags are just much easier for what I'm doing. I have done a couple hundred trees the way shown below and it always works great. DONT LET THE MULCH COME IN CONTACT WITH THE TREE.. Dont wanna get a rotten spot on the young tree bark. If I get a little against the seedling I just reach over the cage with my wolverine shovel and pull it back an inch or two.


It is my firm belief after many years of doing this and thousands of trees planted that the mulch is worth the effort. So much so that I WILL NOT go without it ever again!!

View attachment 62577View attachment 62578View attachment 62579View attachment 62580View attachment 62581View attachment 62582View attachment 62583

Great work Buck. Love the silky saw too.

 

[Telemark]

It doesn't always have to be real mulch. I love to grab "natural" mulch from my woods when its available

I think I got that idea from you. I definitely got it from this forum. One of the most helpful tips I've found on here for my trees.

I generally have to walk quite far to where I plant my trees, and mulch is basically impossible to carry in to the locations. I've taken to just cutting up trees and laying the logs on top of the weed mats when I can't find enough things laying around. Works great and lasts a very long time. Seems to attract little salamanders, too.