Fast Fruit? - Transfered from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

I posted this picture to another thread, but I thought it was unique enough to deserve its own thread.
Is it possible to go from seed to fruit in less than 18 months? Evidently yes. Last spring I started a bunch of crabapples from seed. I got both Siberian Red and Dolgo seeds. They all grew like weeds and were transplanted from 18s to 1 gal RB2s to 3 gal RB2s in one season. Last fall I planted them in the field.
This picture was taken on June 6, 2015:

I planted the tree in the field on October 2, 2015 (The cage is 5' tall for reference):

I was checking some trees and doing some T-budding today. When I checked this tree, here is what I found:

I'm shocked. Maybe this early fruiting won't last, but I find it amazing. Out of 14 trees I grew and planted like this (Siberian Red and Dolgo combined) only one is doing this so far.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

That's pretty rare, Jack. I think it speaks to a strong growing, vigorous tree. Nice job!

I have quite a few apples and pear seedlings that I started from seed and plan on grafting (already planted in the field) and haven't had any fruit. However, I did have a grafted seedling flower in it's first year but that was from a scion off of a more mature tree.
todd

Todd,
I had the same phenomenon with some persimmons. I started some rootstock from seed and let it go dormant. After sufficient chill hours, I woke them up and let them get growing under lights and then grafted Nikita's Gift scions to them. When the weather broke I put them on my deck and a couple of them developed a couple persimmons. It aborted them. The orchardist I got the scions from told me this happens from time to time. The scion actually had a flowering bud on it when it was taken. So, that bud develops the flower and fruit. He said that generally won't occur after that.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Yoder keep me updated on how your t budding does. We have always done this at the end of July early August so I'm anxious to see how it does for you.

Sure. I'm documenting it on this thread: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/apple-planning-phase-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5536/
It has some pictures of what I did. I've never done it before and I may be on the early side. I was thinking that since my crabapples leafed out so early compared to domestic apples or other trees, I could do it earlier but I could be wrong.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

i planted a bare root crab this past December that currently has 5 apples on it...although i don't think its that rare for crabs.......

Jack, that is surprising. I've never seen anything fruit that quickly. Like others have stated, I did see some blooms on apple grafts the first year.
That fruit looks exactly like an ornamental crab that I top worked this spring. The fruit would get that size quickly but never get any larger. When I saw those little round fruits on the long stems, it was the first thing I thought of.
Great jobs with getting your trees off to a good start so quickly.

That brings up another concern. The seeds came from Sheffield's and were sold as Siberian Red and Dolgo respectively. However, as tiny and non-descript as crabapple seeds are, I always worry about a mix-up. I probably won't know for sure what these trees are for a while. I really hope they don't end up being ornamental.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Ill be curious to see what they do as well, but we have some variety of crabapple trees lining the streets in our neighborhood and they are PROLIFIC producers of itty bitty fruits like the trees show now.....they never drop and I only see birds eating them in about Jan-March.
Keep us posted as if its a dolgo that set fruit that quick, that's great!!

Even if they are, you can graft them and lose almost no time at all.
Sometime later in the week, I will be at my farm and try to get some pics of both a Dolgo and one of the ornamentals. I still have a couple of the ornamentals left that I was waiting to top work next spring.
I ended up with those trees via buying some cheap unmarked trees. But the apples I grafted to some this spring took off like rockets, so all was not lost.

Yes, I considered that when I started the project. As long as they are some kind of crabapple they can become root stock.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

That's always the chance when you plant from seed. Even though they can be self fertile doesn't meet the pollinator wasn't carrying pollen from a different apple tree.
However, maybe they are dwarfed from the young age of the tree.

I'm less concerned about that and more concerned about a seed mix-up. I expect some variability in the trees grown from Dolgo seed. I would be disappointed if they all end up like the ornamental in my yard.
You could also be right about the fruit dwarfing due to the tree age. It is also only June. If they ripen in the middle of summer, there is still time for them to grow.
Thanks,
jack

 

[yoderjac]

That's awesome. Healthy tree ='s Happy Owner!! Lot of work paying off !!

 

[H20fwler]

That is awesome! Well done

 

[yoderjac]

Here is the latest picture of the fruit on this tree:

It doesn't appear to be much larger, but some fruit is getting a slight reddishness to it. I still wondering if this is really a dolgo. One possibility is that seed sold as dolgo was actually from something else. Another possibility is that I got seedlings mislabeled and this is actually a Siberian Red (the other seed I ordered). Finally, it could simple be normal variation since this tree was grown from seed, not grafted.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yep - X2. ^^^^^

 

[yoderjac]

Yes. If you scroll back up, Steve posted some pics. The fruit clearly does not look like dolgo. I planted these as rootstock for future grafting. Given the fruit I'm seeing, I'm guessing this will be a target next spring.

 

[yoderjac]

When you posted this, I assumed you were looking for confirmation or denial of identity. Apparently you already knew it wasn't a dolgo

I strongly suspected it is not a dolgo which is what my labeling said. I went backup and looked for the pictures Steve posted, but I think they are on the Apple Planning Phase thread. I'm still not sure what it is yet, but my plan is to graft them.

 

[Neahawg]

Ive got an Arkansas black spur I can send a piece of if your interested jack.

 

[yoderjac]

Ive got an Arkansas black spur I can send a piece of if your interested jack.

Are you talking about a bud stick for t-budding now, or a dormant scion this coming winter?

 

[Neahawg]

Dormant scion for winter I could try abud stick if you like but never new how well they would transfer.

 

[yoderjac]

I have an orchard nearby where I took a grafting class last spring. I'll probably take it again next spring. I got dormant scions as part of the class. I tried t-budding for the first time this year but I may have been too early. Another site member sent me a budding stick from a native crabapple he likes. I don't think any took. Neither of us had t-budded before. I think we may have been too early and the buds were not fully formed. I guess time will tell if any took. It could also be that the bud stick which looked in great shape to me did not transfer well.

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

Steve and Stu,

I just thought I'd post an updated pic:

As you both said, it is clearly not Dolgo. I'm now wondering if I swapped labels myself on two seedling. I'm wondering if it could be Siberian Red which was the other seed I purchased.

Here is a zoom in on the fruit:

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

Jack, I've never grown a Siberian Red, but someone here likely has and will respond.

It's looks like the apples are going to turn out larger than we first thought - larger than the little ornamental ones we discussed. For me, a crabapple that size and that disease resistant is a good one regardless of when it ripens. It will feed wildlife. I think that has the makings of a good crab - even if you don't graft it and just let it grow...

 

[yoderjac]

They haven't really increased too much in size since the last pic, but they are turning red and I'm guessing they are as large as they are going to get.

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I was driving past this tree today for another purpose and decided to try one of the ripe apples. Wow! I'm glad I did. They are tiny, about the size of large marbles, but the taste was outstanding! I don't know how much wildlife will uses these tiny fruits, but I know I will!