Does oats/Winter wheat grow as easily as winter rye?

[eclipseman]

I just checked my brassica plot and discovered an area which I must have just not seeded well. There are a couple small spots with nothing growing (think like 5ft diameter) but one very large spot about 30ft wide and 45ft long with nothing growing (not sure what happened here) so I am going to plant a cereal grain in these spots this weekend. My deer love oats and winter wheat more than winter rye so id prefer to broadcast those. Winter rye has grown for me SUPER easily in the past with little to no prep work. I am wondering can I simply broadcast some oat/winter wheat seed and do nothing else or do I need to rake them in? I cant drive my implements out there since it would end up hurting the brassicas. Any other thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Boll Weevil]

Yes, top-sown wheat and oats should germinate just fine. It's germinated in the bed of my truck many times...dirt, water, sun, seed...it'll sprout.

 

[SwampCat]

Where I live, farmers commonly aerial seed winter wheat. Every fall I overseed about five acres with wheat and it has never failed to make a nice stand.

 

[yoderjac]

I find that surface broadcast, WW and Oats don't germinate nearly as well as WR in my soils. In terms of growing, WR will perform better in poor pH and less fertile soils. My deer don't really care what cereal grain I'm using, but I don't have competition from surrounding farms.

 

[eclipseman]

I find that surface broadcast, WW and Oats don't germinate nearly as well as WR in my soils. In terms of growing, WR will perform better in poor pH and less fertile soils. My deer don't really care what cereal grain I'm using, but I don't have competition from surrounding farms.

My soil is pH 6.9-7.1 so really good and I fertilized per soil test. I am not sure what happened in the spots that didn't grow....best guess is I simply didn't hit it with seed. I am not worried about soil conditions but rather with surface broadcasting as you have mentioned. Maybe ill just rake them in by hand. I have planted all 3 side by side and while the deer do hit the winter rye, they definitely mowed the winter wheat the most, followed by oats and then last rye. The biggest reason I want to stay away from rye is the fact that rye will come back in spring. I want nothing to come back in spring as I have summer plot plans for next summer.

 

[Sconnie]

I overseed my summer plots with WR so something is growing late fall through early spring. WR is easy to terminate with rolling/crimping or Gly. It keeps the soil covered and scavenges nutrients.

What’s your reasoning for nothing growing next spring?






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[FarmerDan]

I think we all agree rye will grow anywhere almost anytime. Wheat and oats are a little more of a problem. Yes, with the right conditions, those two seeds left on the soil surface will germinate, but trying to figure out the right conditions is a difficult First, every seed has it's dormancy state and certain conditions much be present to break the dormancy. Moisture is a big one, but not the only one. Soil temperature is another. And, it probably depends what we are dropping the seed into - bare ground, weeds, row crops.
Going back to the big one, absorption of moisture, the seed coats of wheat, and more so oats, are more difficult for moisture to penetrate - and that's not always a bad thing, except when it is.

So, rye - yes. Wheat and oats can be successfully broadcast and left on the surface, but the odds are reduced when compared to rye.

 

[yoderjac]

My soil is pH 6.9-7.1 so really good and I fertilized per soil test. I am not sure what happened in the spots that didn't grow....best guess is I simply didn't hit it with seed. I am not worried about soil conditions but rather with surface broadcasting as you have mentioned. Maybe ill just rake them in by hand. I have planted all 3 side by side and while the deer do hit the winter rye, they definitely mowed the winter wheat the most, followed by oats and then last rye. The biggest reason I want to stay away from rye is the fact that rye will come back in spring. I want nothing to come back in spring as I have summer plot plans for next summer.

Winter Rye is exactly what I want when I have summer plot plans! It keeps weeds at bay in the spring and is easy to kill. It is improving the soil and protecting it while providing food in that early spring for deer before it toughens up. It makes for great mulch for T&M planting! WR is the key for my fall cover crop mixes because of what it does in preparation for my spring plant.

As for WW being hit more than WR, you have to ask yourself if it matters. If you have a small property and are competing for attraction with a neighbor, it may matter, but if you don't have highly attractive crops nearby drawing deer away from you, you may be better off with a less attractive food. Often with small plots of ice cream foods, deer will wipe them out quickly and they go to zero attraction soon. Where a less attractive crop may have more time to establish giving it more browse tolerance. It all depends on your situation.

I don't discount folks who say WR and Oats surface broadcast well for them. It may be their soils. With my heavy clay, WR is by far the best for surface broadcast germination.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Boll Weevil]

One more thought about surface broadcasting...bird "predation." Sow when there's an imminent rain event and it'll germinate quickly but if it sits on the ground many days tweety birds and turkeys will go to town.

 

[j-bird]

My experience is that oats will grow fairly easily, but will die after the first hard frost. wheat is fairly easy to grow as well, but will survive the frosts and will survive a midwest winter with limited snow cover and then green up again come spring....before the clover will. Wheat will get about knee high or so here by the time it's time to plant the spring annuals. Rye will grow on a damp sidewalk - it's that easy to grow. Rye will stay green a little longer than wheat and will green up a little sooner than wheat as well. Rye will get waist tall when it's time to plant the spring annuals. I broadcast mine into a spring annual plot and as such mow the plot or till it under when the time comes to re-plant. Wheat is fine, but rye can be difficult if you don't terminate it first. Green rye and rotary equipment don't mix well (i tried it once with a tiller - bad idea). Typically the wheat or rye has not seeded or the seed isn't mature enough when your tilling for your spring annual for the seed to be viable in the ground and as such it doesn't grow. Rye will get tall enough to have some weed control aspects to it come spring as well....if you need/want that. You can easily broadcast all three and then terminate with gly come spring if needed. If you can't get to the property in advance to terminate the plot prior to summer annual planting....I would avoid using rye for the reason stated earlier. If the wheat will survive the winter and you want to roll in and be able to till/plant your spring annuals, then a mix of oats and wheat would be in order. You could certainly add some rye but watch the amount so you don't create issues.

 

[Catscratch]

I have equal luck getting WW and WR to germinate and grow, I don't think I could possibly mess them up (knock on wood). Oats are a lot more hit and miss on my place. I haven't even tried them for several years as germination is spotty and usage trails off quickly after frost.

 

[eclipseman]

I overseed my summer plots with WR so something is growing late fall through early spring. WR is easy to terminate with rolling/crimping or Gly. It keeps the soil covered and scavenges nutrients.

What’s your reasoning for nothing growing next spring?






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I have equal luck getting WW and WR to germinate and grow, I don't think I could possibly mess them up (knock on wood). Oats are a lot more hit and miss on my place. I haven't even tried them for several years as germination is spotty and usage trails off quickly after frost.

To both of you, thanks for your comments. The other reason I dislike Rye is the fact it comes back in the spring. Life can get away from me (like this past spring/summer) and I might not get out to the field in time before the rye goes to seed which is exactly what happened this year. Now my plot has a TON of volunteer rye growing in between the brassica and like I stated the deer do not tend to touch it which means the rye will likely get to 5+ feet tall (it is already 2-3ft tall), which I don't want because it will make it difficult to bow hunt from ground blinds compared to an open brassica field. I would much rather have weeds come back than the rye in all honesty. At least the weeds can be terminated whenever I want, but if rye comes back I MUST go out there and terminate it before it goes to seed. I hope to do a spring/summer plot but if time gets away from me (new baby coming) I do not want to let the rye go to seed. Id rather the pasture go back to natural vegetation/weeds.

 

[Chris/OH]

To both of you, thanks for your comments. The other reason I dislike Rye is the fact it comes back in the spring. Life can get away from me (like this past spring/summer) and I might not get out to the field in time before the rye goes to seed which is exactly what happened this year. Now my plot has a TON of volunteer rye growing in between the brassica and like I stated the deer do not tend to touch it which means the rye will likely get to 5+ feet tall (it is already 2-3ft tall), which I don't want because it will make it difficult to bow hunt from ground blinds compared to an open brassica field. I would much rather have weeds come back than the rye in all honesty. At least the weeds can be terminated whenever I want, but if rye comes back I MUST go out there and terminate it before it goes to seed. I hope to do a spring/summer plot but if time gets away from me (new baby coming) I do not want to let the rye go to seed. Id rather the pasture go back to natural vegetation/weeds.

Are you able to spray the rye with a grass herbicide that way you wouldn't be affecting your brassicas?

 

[Tree Spud]

I would much rather have weeds come back than the rye in all honesty. At least the weeds can be terminated whenever I want, but if rye comes back I MUST go out there and terminate it before it goes to seed. I hope to do a spring/summer plot but if time gets away from me (new baby coming) I do not want to let the rye go to seed. Id rather the pasture go back to natural vegetation/weeds.

Interesting ... first time I have ever heard weeds are preferred in a food plot ?

How do you control the height of the weeds if ground blind shooting is the goal?

 

[Islandguy]

To both of you, thanks for your comments. The other reason I dislike Rye is the fact it comes back in the spring. Life can get away from me (like this past spring/summer) and I might not get out to the field in time before the rye goes to seed which is exactly what happened this year. Now my plot has a TON of volunteer rye growing in between the brassica and like I stated the deer do not tend to touch it which means the rye will likely get to 5+ feet tall (it is already 2-3ft tall), which I don't want because it will make it difficult to bow hunt from ground blinds compared to an open brassica field. I would much rather have weeds come back than the rye in all honesty. At least the weeds can be terminated whenever I want, but if rye comes back I MUST go out there and terminate it before it goes to seed. I hope to do a spring/summer plot but if time gets away from me (new baby coming) I do not want to let the rye go to seed. Id rather the pasture go back to natural vegetation/weeds.

You could try Spring Wheat, if you can find it in your area. It germinates much easier than Oats and will winter kill the same as Oats.