Does amending your soil really matter?

[Garrett S]

Wanted to ask a general question for some objective discussion.

Here’s the the hypothetical scenario with a buddy buying some ground in a big woods area. No ag, food plots or the likes around..just some random mast bearing trees on the hill tops, and random browse portions of the low ground. He opened a clearing, did the lazy spread a few bags of lime and 10-10-10, then threw some random BOB seed mix down. It grew with so-so success and deer started to arrive and browse it. He has no interest with soil testing, amending or improving the soil proclaiming he has found success with his planted kill plot and the “health benefits” it provides to the herd are negligible.

Whether of your own time derived opinion or capturing the recent focus on soil improvements including regenerative and no-till practices, how would you respond in conversation when he states there is no need a test or improvements?

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Improving the soil from amending it may or may not be possible. You won't know without testing. Technically, he has already begun amending it with the lime. But it shouldn't be assumed that amending it will definitely help.

I have taken part in a few different replicated field trials with multiple amendment treatments, and we saw mixed results of statistical significance on plant response. It matters more what you are starting with than what you are amending with. With that said, four of the study areas were probably worse than nearly any food plotter's soil and there were no benefits to adding any amendments.

 

[SwampCat]

I used to fertilize all my plots. I didnt find enough benefit to keep doing it for wheat, clover, rye, etc. If seed production is what you desire, for millet, sunflowers, corn, etc - I have seen improvement with soil amendments. Lime will help - if needed. My soil has a pH of 7.5, so none needed

 

[4wanderingeyes]

As others have said, it all depends on what you are starting with, and what you plant. If your in an area that has 6.5-7ph, no need to amend for basically any plants. If you are in an area with 5.3 or less, and you want to plant corn as a food plot, you are going to want to amend the soil. As for fertilizer, it pretty much follows the ph, if you have normal range ph, your plants will be able to uptake the available minerals easier from the soil, and wont need to adjust the ph. If you have very low ph, and you fertilize, most plants wont be able to use much of it.

 

[SD51555]

Three things are going to happen:

1. More deer will show up and he'll run out of food earlier and earlier.

2. His plot will evolve and he'll lose it to weeds.

3. He'll then have to pick a path. Kill it and start over again at step 2, or figure out how to prevent the weeds for longer, and that's gonna require more effort, and then less effort.

 

[Catscratch]

Response in conversation? "You're right, no need to do soil tests or amendments.". Personally haven't sent in a soil test in 8ish yrs. I look for indicator plants, worms, bugs, etc.... signs! But, I did plots for 20yrs without signs or any testing. Threw out seed and fertilized once in a while. It works as long as you're satisfied with the results.

 

[SwampCat]

I have ridge land in calcareous, white soil, plots in red clay gravel filled soil, and plots on bottom land on deep, black gumbo. I plant all my plots the same way. The success or failure of the plot does not depend nearly as much on soil nutrients, planting methods, or amendments - as it does on presence and timeliness of water. Timeliness of Rains, flooding, and drought largely determine the overall success or failure of a planting.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

If he is happy with the results, no need to change anything at this point. But as mentioned above, things will change with time and weeds will complicate things.

In a big woods setting I think any added tonnage you can get from a food plot would be beneficial. SD is right that more deer will show up and eat everything quickly, so I'd concentrate on foods that will draw the deer in when you can shoot them. Brassicas have worked well for me in that regard. Perhaps mix with some clover that can fix nitrogen and provide bonus deer browse.

You can improve your food plot tonnage pretty quickly with fertilizer, lime and herbicides. If you have unlimited acres at your disposal I think the no-till regenerative ag is a fine option, but the output will be lower. I'll agree that the regenerative ag is better for soils though, so if that is something important to the landowner then that is worth looking into.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Hard to disagree with your friend but it always depends on goals and desired outcome. If it meets the goal than who are we to say any different?

I love the idea of improving soil health as covered by folks pushing regen ag support and a lot of us are looking at plotting as a hobby just as much as it is for deer hunting. The glue that sticks it together and makes everything more desirable for me is hope that regenerative methods result in less input costs and tractor time to go along with great plots and improved soils. The results some guys get with throw n mow can at times make a guy feel ridiculous for having a tractor and drill to plant food plots.

If trying to maximize productivity of plots and understand what's going on, i see the value in soil testing. Some guys can put the pieces together with other indicators, i couldn't.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I can only offer this, and 4wanderingeyes touched on it above, regarding soil pH and plants' ability to uptake soil nutrients.

When our camp first started to try food plotting about 25+ years ago, we had existing fields full of weeds, wire-y grayish grass, & moss. Camp is an old farmstead - so fields were established decades before - but nothing done to them in years. Doing nothing other than tossing down some pelletized lime into one field, on top of the snow, that field hatched patches of "wild"(?) clover after the snow melted and the sun warmed the field. No clover was seen in the field at all before the lime-on-snow toss - and none was planted. I'm guessing the slight improvement in pH allowed the sprouting of the clover???

Maybe you AG guys can shed some light on that what happened in that field.

 

[Telemark]

It's pretty cheap to get a soil sample and some lime, so if you offer to pay for the test and a few bags of lime (if needed), he might go along. Otherwise, you can probably do a lot of good by throwing some crimson clover and buckwheat into the mixes, and maybe some radish if the soil is heavy clay.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I'm waiting for a classic Farmer Dan analysis of this one

Get your popcorn.......

bill

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’ve never amended any soils. So far haven’t seen the need. I may go pretty big with some alfalfa next year and don’t want to risk wasting any money so I may go through the process.

 

[Barndog56]

I did a soil test in my plot and garden 7 years ago when getting started, because everyone said you needed to get one and then ammend your soil. But after watching about a million YouTube videos I decided to add nothing.

Dr. Elaine Ingham convinced me that my soil contains all the nutrients necessary to grow any crop I choose. That it was more beneficial to work on my soil biology.

Dan Kittredge of the Bionutrient Food Association convinced me that the plants I had growing, along with my soil biology, could change the soil ph as needed for the uptake of nutrients.

In my garden I add my own aged horse manure, which contains thousands of earthworms, and who knows what else, and apply a homemade liquid foliar fertilizer. Everything is a very healthy dark green, and super productive.

In my orchard/plot I've added my compost around my apple trees and sprayed them with my foliar. I'd do that with the entire plot if possible.

But then all of the things I grow in my plot, clover, alfalfa, rye, turnips, radish, buckwheat, are things that pull nutrients up from deep and make them available for the next crops. Fertilizing them would be counter-productive.

I've planted a ton of comfrey to use for the foliar sprays, and as a fertilizing mulch for my apple trees.

If there were any tests I would use it would be a sap analysis on apple trees, or a soil test that identifies the biology within my soil.

 

[FarmerDan]

Three things are going to happen:

1. More deer will show up and he'll run out of food earlier and earlier.

2. His plot will evolve and he'll lose it to weeds.

3. He'll then have to pick a path. Kill it and start over again at step 2, or figure out how to prevent the weeds for longer, and that's gonna require more effort, and then less effort.

BANG! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm waiting for a classic Farmer Dan analysis of this one

Get your popcorn.......

bill

Once upon a time...
Hot dogs. Hot dogs, white bread and water (and beer). Your children will probably survive on a diet rich in cheapness, but odds are they won't thrive. To thrive means to handle all the obstacles to a good long life. Some might even excel. Some - but only the strong survive. I guess you need to decide what you want from the seed you planted. The genetic potential inside that little pill is amazing and given enough time a lot of seeds will germinate when placed correctly. They will even grow but without some additional help they probably will not thrive.

I guess the question each of us needs to answer is what do we want? Frankly, a side of me admires the minimalist. In food plotting I think most of us go overboard in trying to be the best growers we can be. Just keep throwing seed on the ground. Sometimes it's far cheaper to do that than to heap the care we do on our 'children.' This doesn't need to be an expensive habit. Having said that, I know what 'can be' and I will, personally, do most everything I can to assure survival and maximum potential of all Mother Nature (who can be a cruel mistress) has given.

I guess the response to the friend in question is, "Good luck! I respect your decision and admire your simplicity!" He's happy and you should be too! Nobody likes child rearing advice!

Pass the popcorn please? And what's for dinner?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I wouldn't and haven't amended anything in my little kill plot. It's hard/impossible to find poor ground in our area however. I had 2 160's feeding in my kill plot most of October last year. Shot one of them on my first sit.

 

[Garrett S]

Shared the thoughts posted here. The incoming weeds part raised an eyebrow… and eaten out of house and home got the “we’ll see”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigboreblr]

Any details o the BOB mix.? Some people just dont care much about the situation.

There is benefit to amending soil, especially if alot of things are eating in a small spot. Making soil more fertile just makes the weeds blow up.

IF your soil is in truly poor shape, adding fertilizer to "green manure" crops is helpful. For several years I have played with light applications of fetilier vs none in some spots and see the difference. I am talking very sandy soil with mininal organic material in it. Converting log landings etc.....

Another issue with fertilizer is competition. A small open spot in the woods, and the fertilizer makes the trees grow faster. Focusing on improving sothern exposure can do more than a soil test and any amendments in alot of food plots I have seen from folks near me.

Not all BOB is bad. I still buy plotspike forage feast and their clover blend.

If I am doing more than scratching a seedbed, I would be hesistant not to put any amendments in there. Doing all the work of that and not making hte soil a bit better. I usually put atleast 100lb of 6-24-24 bown. Potassium and phospahte are hard to move int the soil. Liming while you plow transports it much faster too.

Remember your 1st year doing foodplots or owning / using private land vs public your in the honeymoon phase of things/ When it gets weedy next year, or wonders whhy the cirtter come in only at 2am, then it's time for him to learn a bit more. A good step towards the light is oats. Still mix them into the winter rye.

A thing you can interest him into is making that food plot a little more secluded. Brushy edges.....

 

[Garrett S]

Funny thing is I asked about the mix and got a “dunno” back. That kind of priority. Lol

I am planting a bunch of cereals this fall- he’d be easy to sell on adding some to thicken things up.