Deer & Turkey use among wheat varieties?

[Bassattackr]

For those that have grown beardless/awnless wheat vs standard winter wheat, what are your findings in deer and turkey use of the heads in the spring? QDMA did an article a while back by Dr. Craig Harper on awnless preference but curious if the standard varieties get mowed down as well? My local ag store only typically gets bearded wheat and was debating on this vs. paying an extra $30 in shipping from Welter or Deer Creek Seed.

Thoughts? Being planted in beans this fall and going to let mature next spring. Thanks!

 

[yoderjac]

Save your money. You don't need to feed turkey. They eat anything that doesn't eat them. The key for attracting turkey in the spring is habitat. You need good nesting cover proximate to good brooding cover. 90% of a poults diet is comprised of insects. Hens will be attracted to areas where they can successfully next and brood young, and gobblers will be where the hens are in the spring. Good brooding cover consists of crops like clover that attract insects proximate to vertical escape cover to keep them from eyes of avian predators. Crops like RR beans that canopy and have bare ground underneath facilitate poult movement. Avoid fescue and grasses that flop over and make it hard for poults to navigate. Shrubs nearby help as well. When poults begin to fly they can't fly far or high. Shrubs provide escape from ground predators once they can fly.

They type of cereal you plant is of no real consequence for turkey.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bassattackr]

Jack,
Agree with all your points. However, turkey use is really secondary, I am primarily interested in deer. Should have clarified better.. my fault.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Animals really aren't much different than us. Take a bite out of a traditional wheat head, good luck being able to swallow it without the hairs sticking to your throat making you gag repeatedly.

 

[SwampCat]

Deer and coons eat every one of my regular, $10 a bag, awned wheat. Never tried awnless. I wish they wouldnt - because I want my doves to eat the wheat - but the deer mow it down. Hogs will eat it, too.

 

[SD51555]

I'd never grow bearded if I had access to awnless stuff. I've seen that mid summer demolition play out enough to know I want it. I should get to see mine this weekend both barley and wheat. Not many closer to the center pole than me, so I'm probably the last one to get the chow down.

You could look at it a few different ways. Do you need deer food in July? Probably not. If you go down to the details, there are some benefits.

I find it kind of handy to have the deer harvest those seed heads in case you don't want to rotate right back into that, or didn't want the spraying chore. I think AWW casts better shade and longer into summer because of later maturity and wider leaf blades. Those seed heads bring extra hoof traffic the plot probably wouldn't get in July without them. Hoof traffic helps beat up old residue and also brings the fertilizer carts (deer) onto the plot for a few extra days/year.

This is from one of my clients.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
Agree with all your points. However, turkey use is really secondary, I am primarily interested in deer. Should have clarified better.. my fault.

For deer, during hunting season, the attractiveness of the general crop are secondary to pressure and location of the plot with respect to cover. The attractiveness of one cereal grain over another is even smaller, and the difference between bearded verses beardless is down in the noise.

That is not to say there may be some special circumstance where it makes a difference, but when it comes to cereal, my experience is that less expensive is better in that it frees money for other habitat projects. If beardless was less expensive in my area, I'd use it. In my area, cereal is cereal.

I think of attraction differently than many. If I planted strips of each, put up exclusion cages on each, and found deer preferred one over the other, my question would be "What does it matter?" If the deer only had the less preferred one, would they eat that instead? In my area, the answer is a clear "Yes". I can't speak to all areas and situations. Attraction is all relative. I could plant ice cream crops like soybeans and sunflowers in the fall in a wide open area near frequent hunting pressure and it would get near zero use during shooting hours. I could plant ryegrass in a small 1/4 acre plot in a low pressure area next to heavy cover and deer would be in it all day.

In bumper mast crop years, it doesn't matter what I plant. Deer will bed right in the oaks, stand up, walk 30 yards sucking up acorns and then lay back down. Folks can sit on food plots from sunup to sundown and see nothing. Cameras do show that at 2 AM, deer like a little salad with their nuts.

Others may take a different view of attraction, but that is mine. I've experimented with lots of different crops. My conclusion is that significant acreage of a good mix of crops that require low fertility are the best bet. I don't want farm-looking high yield monocultures on less acreage. I find a mix of these crops and weeds (except for a few problematic weeds with low wildlife value) works the best.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I just thought I add this example. I've got a BEC wireless camera network that runs 24/7/365. I have two plots small plots, each about 1/3 acre and only a few hundred yards apart. One year, I planted both fields on the same day with the same crops. Both got good germination and growth. They both looked pretty much the same. During our first few weeks of archery season, pressure is just beginning to build and deer are still using plots regularly during daylight hours. I analyzed the pictures from the cameras on each field.

Deer used one of the fields pretty much every evening for about 2 1/2 weeks straight. The other field got sporadic random use. Then, like someone flipped a switch, they reversed course for the next 3 weeks and fed regularly in the opposite field every evening. By the time that 3 weeks was over, hunting pressure was building and daytime use of both fields diminished to occasional.

Why? Who knows. There was noting I could identify. The point is, the particulars of the crop were not a factor at all. Deer will be deer...

 

[Catscratch]

My take;
Fall and winter attractiveness = same for all wheats.
Late winter and early spring attractiveness = same for all wheats.
Head attractiveness = awnless highly preferred over bearded (but beared does get some use).
Wheat grain = high protien mid summer (stress period, lactation requirements, antler growth).

 

[yoderjac]

My take;
Fall and winter attractiveness = same for all wheats.
Late winter and early spring attractiveness = same for all wheats.
Head attractiveness = awnless highly preferred over bearded (but beared does get some use).
Wheat grain = high protien mid summer (stress period, lactation requirements, antler growth).

That may be true, but the advantage you cite (mid-summer use) doesn't require attraction. If the objective is a QDM, one of nutrition, things change. If deer don't have a choice between them, they will likely eat whichever. If they are not, then they have found something else that is better. So when planting for a stress period, attraction again doesn't matter because during that period, other quality foods are not readily available. If they are, then it is probably not much of a stress period.

As far as the summer stress period goes, managers tend to go with warm season annuals because of the significant nutrition advantage over cereal heads. Seed heads might give you 12% crude protein where something like cowpeas or soybeans are in the 25%-35% range. One reason I love to be weed tolerant is that weeds like pokeweed can have crude protein in the 30% range and it is very digestible.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SD51555]

That may be true, but the advantage you cite (mid-summer use) doesn't require attraction. If the objective is a QDM, one of nutrition, things change. If deer don't have a choice between them, they will likely eat whichever. If they are not, then they have found something else that is better. So when planting for a stress period, attraction again doesn't matter because during that period, other quality foods are not readily available. If they are, then it is probably not much of a stress period.

As far as the summer stress period goes, managers tend to go with warm season annuals because of the significant nutrition advantage over cereal heads. Seed heads might give you 12% crude protein where something like cowpeas or soybeans are in the 25%-35% range. One reason I love to be weed tolerant is that weeds like pokeweed can have crude protein in the 30% range and it is very digestible.

Thanks,

Jack

You wouldn't use a cool season cereal of any kind as a fall overseeding then?

 

[Catscratch]

Deer on my place must not experience much summer stress. They occasionally pick at bearded wheat heads but hammer the awnless. They have all the native forbs/legumes they could ever want as well as many varieties of red and white clovers, soybeans, and chicory. Somehow that wheat grain still gets devoured.

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[yoderjac]

You wouldn't use a cool season cereal of any kind as a fall overseeding then?

No, I use it all the time. I typically use a cover crop mix in the fall of WR/CC/PTT. Our winters generally are not a big stress period. We get warm periods when WR will start growing again. The PTT bulbs become a post season food source. I terminate it in the spring to plant warm season annuals. I just don't let it head out for a summer food source. I have experimented with bearded and bearless WW. I find WR has more benefits given my soils and I don't find any difference in deer use.

After enough years of use, I'll rest a plot rather than planting warm season annuals in it. I rotate the one being rested. In that case, I do let the cereal head out. Not so much as a food source for deer, there is no reason to terminate it and it provides cover for wildlife. I don't see significant use of seed heads by deer regardless of the type of cereal. That is largely because the deer are using the warm season annuals instead.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Deer on my place must not experience much summer stress. They occasionally pick at bearded wheat heads but hammer the awnless. They have all the native forbs/legumes they could ever want as well as many varieties of red and white clovers, soybeans, and chicory. Somehow that wheat grain still gets devoured.

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Well, location is everything. There must be some reason they are using it. Sounds like you have any summer stress period covered. What is your location, I can't recall? The point I was trying to make was that if your summer stress period is covered with quality foods, it doesn't much matter which deer prefer from a QDM standpoint. If there are quality crops available when nature is stingy then you are smoothing out the dips.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SD51555]

No, I use it all the time. I typically use a cover crop mix in the fall of WR/CC/PTT. Our winters generally are not a big stress period. We get warm periods when WR will start growing again. The PTT bulbs become a post season food source. I terminate it in the spring to plant warm season annuals. I just don't let it head out for a summer food source. I have experimented with bearded and bearless WW. I find WR has more benefits given my soils and I don't find any difference in deer use.

After enough years of use, I'll rest a plot rather than planting warm season annuals in it. I rotate the one being rested. In that case, I do let the cereal head out. Not so much as a food source for deer, there is no reason to terminate it and it provides cover for wildlife. I don't see significant use of seed heads by deer regardless of the type of cereal. That is largely because the deer are using the warm season annuals instead.

Thanks,

Jack

Gotcha. If you could pick between awned and awnless would you still buy the awned variety? What I find interesting is, up here, the forage cereals (awnless wheat and barley) have been more affordable per bag than named awned cereals where both are in stock, at least at my seed joint.

 

[Catscratch]

KS.

I'm a firm believer in diversity. Give them as many options as possible. Throughout the summer deer shift from one plant to the other and do it seemingly from week to week. I feel that the best way to deliver minerals and various micronutrients is through palatable plants. There's a lot to diet other than protein. For a week or two deer get something from that wheat grain that they wouldn't have gotten from a bean leaf. With that said I watch them walk straight from my wheat to the bean field... so they are getting that 30% crude protein also.

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[yoderjac]

Gotcha. If you could pick between awned and awnless would you still buy the awned variety? What I find interesting is, up here, the forage cereals (awnless wheat and barley) have been more affordable per bag than named awned cereals where both are in stock, at least at my seed joint.

If they were the same price, I would buy awnless but only if I were planting WW for some reason. I generally prefer WR over WW. I like the soil, weed suppression, OM and low fertility/pH requirement benefits of WR. I also find that with my soils, I get better T&M germination rates with WR than WW. All in all, it is a more efficient choice for me.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

Awnless is cheaper here...

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[yoderjac]

KS.

I'm a firm believer in diversity. Give them as many options as possible. Throughout the summer deer shift from one plant to the other and do it seemingly from week to week. I feel that the best way to deliver minerals and various micronutrients is through palatable plants. There's a lot to diet other than protein. For a week or two deer get something from that wheat grain that they wouldn't have gotten from a bean leaf. With that said I watch them walk straight from my wheat to the bean field... so they are getting that 30% crude protein also.

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I concur on diversity, and if you have sufficient acreage and resources. I completely agree on the best mineral delivery system being plants, but minerals are accumulated and used over time, so we don't really have the same kind of gaps to fill. Each plant has a different ability to mine minerals, so in a diverse native environment, deer get sufficient trace minerals from native plants. Your environment may be quite different in KS. You are completely correct on nutrition as well there is a lot more to it than protein.

I think there is probably such a difference in habitat between my area and KS that we could have very different experiences with deer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bassattackr]

I just thought I add this example. I've got a BEC wireless camera network that runs 24/7/365. I have two plots small plots, each about 1/3 acre and only a few hundred yards apart. One year, I planted both fields on the same day with the same crops. Both got good germination and growth. They both looked pretty much the same. During our first few weeks of archery season, pressure is just beginning to build and deer are still using plots regularly during daylight hours. I analyzed the pictures from the cameras on each field.

Deer used one of the fields pretty much every evening for about 2 1/2 weeks straight. The other field got sporadic random use. Then, like someone flipped a switch, they reversed course for the next 3 weeks and fed regularly in the opposite field every evening. By the time that 3 weeks was over, hunting pressure was building and daytime use of both fields diminished to occasional.

Why? Who knows. There was noting I could identify. The point is, the particulars of the crop were not a factor at all. Deer will be deer...

Likely one of the fields was closer to their bedding / security cover or they just felt safer there for whatever reason. There appeared to be a tipping point at the 2.5 - 3 week mark where the first field was picked over enough and the attractiveness of the second became worth the risk..

As you note hunting pressure trumps all food, as safety will always be their #1.

My $.02..