Deer avoiding foot plots-what are they feeding on?

[Tap]

They were also eating a fair amount of this plant. I'm not sure what it's called...maybe snake root? But the deer were eating both the green leaves that were still alive, and the dead, brown, shriveled-up leaves still hanging on the stock. I've watched them eat the dead leaves of this plant many times before.

 

[Phil]

I witnessed a new one (for me) yesterday... Deer heavily eating spicebush leaves. It wasn't just a random bite here and there. There were 3 deer and they were definately targeting the spicebush. They were hanging around my stand for a couple hours. They'd eat for a while, bed and chew cud, then get up and eat more spicebush.
I've come to the conclusion that deer randomly feed on just about everything. I even see some browsing on stilt grass and thistle, but it's usually extremely limited. But these deer yesterday were showing more than just random browsing on spicebush. I've never seen them eat it this heavily before.

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Makes you wonder how they tell the nutritional value of a plant. I have some picture perfect brassicas with zero feeding, however they like to eat those leaves. We did get snow last night I hope this will force them to start and use the plots. This year they won't even touch an apple.

 

[yoderjac]

Makes you wonder how they tell the nutritional value of a plant. I have some picture perfect brassicas with zero feeding, however they like to eat those leaves. We did get snow last night I hope this will force them to start and use the plots. This year they won't even touch an apple.

I presume they read the nutritional facts on the label like the rest of us. :D

I doubt deer really know the nutritional value of individual plants. I would presume that like in humans, over time smell and taste cues along with the bodies response evolve with the environment. While likely different then humans in the specifics, I presume deer have tastes that draw them more toward some foods that benefit them and cause them to avoid others. The idea of diet diversity would keep these preferences measurable but somewhat oblique. Each plant has a unique ability to mine certain minerals as well. So the diversity of diet is why in healthy free ranging deer, mineral supplementation has demonstrated no benefits. There is also an equation that relates the energy required to access and process a food source to the energy derived from it. Browsers eat a little here and a little there as they move. Another aspect with a prey species is the risk associated with accessing a food source and the benefit derived from it. Some of these cues may change seasonally as well.

Deer that don't balance all of these factors along with many others we probably don't know, don't last as long as deer that do and statistically have less genetic material passed down.

Deer are amazing creatures!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

Good pics Tap.

 

[Tap]

Good pics Tap.

Thanks. They're from cam corder footage. I can't tell you how valuable that cam corder has become to me. It used to be, I'd grab my binoculars when I wanted to watch deer doing something. But with binoculars, the event is over as it happens. With a cam corder, I can go back and analyze what I REALLY saw, make pics for my records, and also make pics to prove I'm not lying ...and to share 'em with you guys (to prove I'm not lying )

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[Tap]

I presume they read the nutritional facts on the label like the rest of us. :D

I doubt deer really know the nutritional value of individual plants. I would presume that like in humans, over time smell and taste cues along with the bodies response evolve with the environment. While likely different then humans in the specifics, I presume deer have tastes that draw them more toward some foods that benefit them and cause them to avoid others. The idea of diet diversity would keep these preferences measurable but somewhat oblique. Each plant has a unique ability to mine certain minerals as well. So the diversity of diet is why in healthy free ranging deer, mineral supplementation has demonstrated no benefits. There is also an equation that relates the energy required to access and process a food source to the energy derived from it. Browsers eat a little here and a little there as they move. Another aspect with a prey species is the risk associated with accessing a food source and the benefit derived from it. Some of these cues may change seasonally as well.

Deer that don't balance all of these factors along with many others we probably don't know, don't last as long as deer that do and statistically have less genetic material passed down.

Deer are amazing creatures!

Thanks,

Jack

I really don't think deer eat for nutrition. I think they are like kids and eat what tastes good to them.
Proof... I used to keep a feeder filled with corn year round. I went through 15 to 20 THOUSAND pounds of (free) corn a year...usually almost two 12,000 pound grain buggies. Deer would pick their way through prime clover and chicory, on their way to the feeder. The feeder would be "standing room only". Even in June when the clover was at it's peak nutrition and succulents, they still loaded up on corn.
Another observation...ever summer when I fed corn, I used to always see a few fawns with bad diarrhea. It would be so bad it coated their legs to their hocks. Since I stopped the corn feeding, I don't see any diarrhea any more.

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[Tap]

Makes you wonder how they tell the nutritional value of a plant. I have some picture perfect brassicas with zero feeding, however they like to eat those leaves. We did get snow last night I hope this will force them to start and use the plots. This year they won't even touch an apple.

That's why we have to keep the observations of others in perspective. Deer have been hammering my brassica for more than a month. I can hardly grow a turnip bulb because deer destroy the tops...long before a freeze.
I'll repeat a worn out plea of mine...posters need to show their location!! Not an address, just a general area.
Deer in one region behave differently than in another region. The same with everything else we do...from plots to weeds to giving advice and opinions, to you name it. Habitat stuff and wildlife behavior varies...PLEASE, POST LOCATION!
General location should be a requirement to post.

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[yoderjac]

I really don't think deer eat for nutrition. I think they are like kids and eat what tastes good to them.
Proof... I used to keep a feeder filled with corn year round. I went through 15 to 20 THOUSAND pounds of (free) corn a year...usually almost two 12,000 pound grain buggies. Deer would pick their way through prime clover and chicory, on their way to the feeder. The feeder would be "standing room only". Even in June when the clover was at it's peak nutrition and succulents, they still loaded up on corn.
Another observation...ever summer when I fed corn, I used to always see a few fawns with bad diarrhea. It would be so bad it coated their legs to their hocks. Since I stopped the corn feeding, I don't see any diarrhea any more.

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I concur. In a natural environment, their taste cues along with the other cues support a diverse diet. When we provide foods (intentionally with feeders or unintentionally with agriculture) we skew that a bit. Taste is one consideration, safety access is another. It certainly is a complex system.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[pointer]

I really don't think deer eat for nutrition. I think they are like kids and eat what tastes good to them.
Proof... I used to keep a feeder filled with corn year round. I went through 15 to 20 THOUSAND pounds of (free) corn a year...usually almost two 12,000 pound grain buggies. Deer would pick their way through prime clover and chicory, on their way to the feeder. The feeder would be "standing room only". Even in June when the clover was at it's peak nutrition and succulents, they still loaded up on corn.
Another observation...ever summer when I fed corn, I used to always see a few fawns with bad diarrhea. It would be so bad it coated their legs to their hocks. Since I stopped the corn feeding, I don't see any diarrhea any more.

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Science has shown that there is a feedback loop from nutrition to preference. That said, there is also mounting science on the learned behavior of foraging and most of that knowledge comes from mom. Mom gets to liking spicebush, odds are the kids will too. They learn to eat by watching her. Though it was done with sheep, some of the pen trials they use for testing the learned behavior of foraging are pretty darn funny. Sheep on one side standing at the fence watching what those on the other side are munching on. They are being fed the same thing, one side was just "trained" not to like it by being treated with a bolus so that they associate that food with making them sick.

 

[bueller]

Thanks. They're from cam corder footage. I can't tell you how valuable that cam corder has become to me. It used to be, I'd grab my binoculars when I wanted to watch deer doing something. But with binoculars, the event is over as it happens. With a cam corder, I can go back and analyze what I REALLY saw, make pics for my records, and also make pics to prove I'm not lying ...and to share 'em with you guys (to prove I'm not lying )

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I really like this idea. Never been a big fan of binos.

 

[yoderjac]

Science has shown that there is a feedback loop from nutrition to preference. That said, there is also mounting science on the learned behavior of foraging and most of that knowledge comes from mom. Mom gets to liking spicebush, odds are the kids will too. They learn to eat by watching her. Though it was done with sheep, some of the pen trials they use for testing the learned behavior of foraging are pretty darn funny. Sheep on one side standing at the fence watching what those on the other side are munching on. They are being fed the same thing, one side was just "trained" not to like it by being treated with a bolus so that they associate that food with making them sick.

Absolutely. It is a combination of nature and nurture. It gets even more complex as we look at epigenetics. Here, the environment can influence which genes are expressed and this can occur over across several generations. Another fascinating topic...

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

I really like this idea. Never been a big fan of binos.

I still carry binocs and the cam corder while hunting, but I find myself using the camcorder more and more.
I filmed a decent 8 point from my kitchen window yesterday. If I didn't have the video footage to review, I wouldn't have realized it was a new buck that I haven't seen yet (this year).

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Caught this deer on the scrape cam eating locust seed pods. With no acorns I guess they can adapt well!

 

[Phil]

My buddies wife said the other night " as much as you guys discuss how deer prefer one food over the other, and deer habits in general you could have cured cancer by now " end quotes... I think she is partially right, but this stuff really peaks my interest.

I am attaching a picture of my sit last night, we got some snow here in VT. This change in weather seems to be moving them, especially after dark.

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

Phil what part of VT, are you in.?

 

[Mike Bolin]

Locust pods must turn sweet after a good frost. There is a locust at the top of the access road I use to enter the property. When leaving from a morning hunt late October/early November I have walked up on does and young bucks feeding on the pods and they didn't want to leave!
My plots are still being used now, but not as much since the surrounding properties beans and corn have been picked. The deer are on clean up duty right now, but as the farmers begin chisel plowing/disking the plot activity will pick back up.

 

[Phil]

Phil what part of VT, are you in.?

Central Vermont

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I can back up what Tap has been saying about deer eating leaves. I've been in a tree stand and had deer come in around me and actually run to get freshly-fallen leaves as they just hit the ground. They were maples that were dropping leaves. Deer were eating leaves of all colors - the only common thread was they were freshly fallen. This has happened in October ( different years ) just as the highly-colored leaves were dropping. Acorns were also on the ground, but the leaves were the attraction. No idea why, just what I observed.

 

[yoderjac]

I can back up what Tap has been saying about deer eating leaves. I've been in a tree stand and had deer come in around me and actually run to get freshly-fallen leaves as they just hit the ground. They were maples that were dropping leaves. Deer were eating leaves of all colors - the only common thread was they were freshly fallen. This has happened in October ( different years ) just as the highly-colored leaves were dropping. Acorns were also on the ground, but the leaves were the attraction. No idea why, just what I observed.

I've watched them eat poplar leaves with acorns at their feet.

 

[yoderjac]

One more thing to contemplate. There are clearly generalized preference that deer as a group have that change over time. There are both nature and nurture factors in this. We see deer shift food sources seasonally in ways we seem to be able to explain and the inexplicable. Perceived risk of access plays a role. Deer are browsers, and that form of feeding influences what they eat. One thing we haven't touched on is individuality.

Humans obviously have a wide range of individual taste. We generally don't think of deer that way, but I'm not sure why. I'm not sure how much research has been done specifically on a deer's sense of taste. We know taste and smell are tightly coupled. Humans only blindfolded do a pretty good job identifying foods, but when their sense of smell is disrupted in addition to the blindfold, their performance goes way down. We know a fairly significant portion of the deer brain is dedicated to the olfactory system.

I wonder how much the individual sense of taste varies between deer and how that effects food choices.

Thanks,

Jack