Crossbows as we age....

[Barndog56]

A crossbow absolutely does not have triple the range of a compound. While a Ravin may be accurate to 100 yards on a still target, it will not be accurate at 100 on a deer.

 

[BenA]

Yeah but you’re reaching. I’m gonna challenge that your kid became proficient enough to ethically shoot a whitetail deer at 40 yards in a day. Could he hit a target, I buy that but I’ve been bow hunting for 30 years and I’ve never attempted a 40 yard shot at a deer. Ive seen 5 year old stack bullseyes with a crossbow in minutes. As you stated above go ask a tracker about trailing gun vs bow. If bow was so easy there wouldn’t be a disproportionate amount per weapon.

I'm just saying, the challenge divide between a compound and crossbow is a LOT smaller than between a compound and traditional. If you are really worried about making sure people have enough of a challenge, put down the bow with sights and wheels that you can hold back for minutes and shoot way out there, and pickup a traditional bow. A compound is not nearly as much of a challenge as is traditional archery. Shorten the compound season, and let the more challenging weapon have the longer one.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'm just saying, the challenge divide between a compound and crossbow is a LOT smaller than between a compound and traditional. If you are really worried about making sure people have enough of a challenge, put down the bow with sights and wheels that you can hold back for minutes and shoot way out there, and pickup a traditional bow. A compound is not nearly as much of a challenge as is traditional archery. Shorten the compound season, and let the more challenging weapon have the longer one.

I get where you’re coming from and I do somewhat agree that there is a step even harder than a compound bow. But I will say for 99% of shooters, the ethical range of a compound bow on a whitetail deer, not elk, should be sub 30 yards. I know everyone wants to be Cam Haynes and Levi Morgan and fling arrows at 60 yards at Big game. I just don’t find that to be ethical and I’m not just shooting off the hip, I’ve been doing this a long time, unfortunately!
But to my main point, I’m actually not blaming anyone who chooses to pick up a crossbow and use it during archery season. I’m blaming the flawed policy of the states that allow it. They are the ones who originally decided that there would be a differentiation in seasons based on difficulty of weapon for a lack of better term. You’ve been in this game as long as I have and we can probably go one for one on one on ways the states have made hunting easier ever since we first got into it. The problem with easy is you are taking the unpredictable and variable outcome out of the “sport”. It’s not longer if, it’s when. And after that happens it just cheapens the whole thing including and especially respect for the pursuit and the game. In my opinion of course.

 

[Westwind]

I’m 58. I haven’t bow hunted for about 8 years partly because of volunteer youth sports coaching then travel schedule to watch my daughters play college sports. The other part of that is that my shoulders have given me problems.

There was a thread on here last spring or summer about fitness. A bunch of things all came together for me and I started doing a lot of walking and a little bit of strength training. I added one exercise that mimicked drawing a bow. I was very careful to not agitate my shoulders. Got some advice on some easy otc supplements that helped my joints.

I will be back in a tree this fall with my bow. I don’t want anything else, I want to be in the tree not a blind and I want to do it mostly the way I used to do it. If I can’t do it that way I’m just not going to do it.

There are things I don’t like about crossbows and if I was a 30ish kid like the kid that hunts my neighbors place I wouldn’t be caught dead in a blind or shooting a crossbow. Suffering a little in the cold never hurt anyone. But if you love to hunt and a crossbow is what gets you out there I guess thats all right.

 

[roymunson]

I view it as different kinds of fun. I killed a deer with my compound this year and it was a lot of fun.

I also enjoyed watching a deer fold like a card table with my rifle.

I enjoyed watching my 13 year old shoot an antelope with a rifle too.

I killed a buck with a crossbow. It was fast and efficient.

somedays you want a steak, some days you want chicken. Who cares. Go get outside, and kill some deer.

 

[Westwind]

I view it as different kinds of fun.

An old boy I knew growing up said “You can’t beat fun.”

He wasn’t wrong.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

An old boy I knew growing up said “You can’t beat fun.”

He wasn’t wrong.

Shooting deer with a thermal at night would be a blast right? I mean people love it for coyotes so surely it would be as good if not better.

 

[SwampCat]

My point is the distinction between weapons is what defines seasons. Archery/muzzleloader/rifle (gun). The crossbow is every bit a gun as it is a bow. The similarities with bow begins and ends with the projectile it’s fires somewhat resembling an arrow (ironically it’s not even called an arrow). It’s held horizontally, it’s fired with a preloaded trigger, it can be fired from any position which eliminates one of the toughest variables in archery, which is drawing for a shot, 95% of the time requiring standing and moving. It’s mounted with a SCOPE. It has triple the effective range and almost double the speed of a compound in responsible hands. This is from Ravins website , Shooting 415 FPS and weighing just 6.9-pounds, the Turbo X generates long-range accuracy out to 100-yards

If you can do this, it’s not archery. A 4 year old sitting a blind with a crossbow on some kind of brace/arm. It’s insanity that we can’t make this distinction to me. I’m all for using one in gun or even muzzleloader season. Looks fun. But I thought the point of seasons was differentiate the means of take and giving those who chose to increase the challenge another opportunity. My point being if we have just watered these down to mean nothing, eliminate seasons.
View attachment 88767

I know three college boys went on a DMAP doe thinning hunt one afternoon. They killed 27 does in about four hours between the three of them. I asked them how far away were they shooting them - and they said from just over 100 yards to just under 400 yards. They missed nine more and lost one wounded. They were neck shooting all of them. They would have not have killed a single deer that afternoon with a crossbow, yet literally killed a truckload with a standard hunting rifle. Not exactly crossbow friendly.

I use a ravin crossbow for most of my serious hunting nowadays. But I hate what ravin did in their advertising. The first advertisements showed a guy shooting a ravin, off a bench, in perfect conditions, and shooting heart shots. The reason I hate those ads is for two reasons - first, it makes folks think that is an ethical, realistic shot. A crossbow bolt that is EXTREMELY prone to wind drift due to its extensive surface area, and the fact it takes almost a second to travel 100 yards, coupled with a decibel rating 16 times as loud as the latest Mathews compound, simply put - that is not a realistic or ethical shot.

Of course, Ravin is fashioning its adds to appeal to the inexperienced and gullible. The second reason I hate those adds is they also supply anti crossbow fodder to the inexperienced and gullible. While I know of no one who has killed a deer with a ravin crossbow at 100 yards, I am sure it has been done. Fred Bear killed a bengal tiger with a recurve at over 70 yards. Pretty sure a guy could kill a deer under perfect conditions at 100 yards with a crossbow

In my own personal experience over the last seven or so years - my hunters (family) have killed a deer at 45 yards with a ravin crossbow - our farthest. They have missed a couple in the 60 yard range. I personally have seen a doe jump string at 45 yards with a ravin crossbow. Our farthest compound killed deer is 55 yards. Three of us have taken deer at 45 yards with a compound - but we have a lot more experience with a compound. No hunter in my group of fairly experienced hunters has attempted a 100 yard shot on deer because they believe it to be a very low percentage shot. I have personally hit two hogs around the 100 yard range - killing one and losing the other - and missing a half dozen more. These are real world experiences

But I am not going to claim a vertical bow and crossbow are on a level playing field, either. By far the biggest difference to me is the crossbow does not have to be drawn in the presence of game. In fact, it cannot be. I shot a nice buck, my first with a crossbow - and while preparing to cock the crossbow after the shot, the second biggest buck I have had the chance to kill, chased a doe up 15 yards from my stand and moseyed around for 15 minutes within 30 yards while I sat there helpless. I would have killed that deer with a compound. But back to the point. Not having to draw in the presence of game is the biggest advantage. Not having to draw at all is a big advantage, also. You dont have to hold the bow back. There have been a lot of deer I had to let down the string because I couldnt hold it any longer. Several of my grand daughters took their first deer with a crossbow, setting on a field pod, from within a ground blind. They would have been unable to draw a legal 40 lb bow. For the younger kids, the ability to use a scope is also a huge benefit. For adults, there is also an advantage - but typical not as much. I cant deny there is an accuracy advantage, also - but I dont consider it as great as not having to draw in the presence of game - especially when considering realistic hunting ranges. At 100 yards, a huge difference - at 30 yards considering hunting accuracy - not as much. A crossbow will shoot a 1” group at 30 yards. I shot a 3” group with my bow. I felt like I was going to kill a deer at 30 yards with my bow if I got to shoot

Compound bows arent all that difficult, either. I gave my wife a compound bow for christmas, she shot it that afternoon for her first time ever shooting a bow and killed a deer with it the next afternoon. A lot of those sixth graders in school on the archery teams are surprisingly good shots

But, all the advantages of a crossbow are tempered by the EFFECTIVE RANGE. I can go sit in my favorite stand on my place. A native pecan grove 400 yards long and 200 yards wide with a box stand in the edge of the woods mid way. With pretty much any normal centerfire rifle, you can easily cover it all - 720,000 sq feet - easily - with multiple shots if need be before a deer gets out of sight. The area I could cover could be a WHOLE lot more if I could see behind me and further in front and to the sides. I can cover all of it with my straightwall .400 legend. I am confident to 150 yards with my muzzle loader. With a crossbow - I will give it 50 yards - and that is pushing it - about 35,000 sq ft. With my compound bow, I will say 35 yards - even though I have killed deer at 45 yards - about 16,000 sq ft.

So yes, my crossbow has advantages of drawing and effective range - but the main point being making it a fools errand to even mention a centerfire rifle and a crossbow in the same breath - the rifle covers way more than 20 times as much area of effective range, with greater accuracy, repeating shots, ease of operation, etc.

It is litterally like comparing fishing with a cane pole compared to a modern spinning reel. Do you REALLY think - in AR, hunters would be killing 157,000 deer in 8 weeks with a gun compared to 12,000 deer in 22 weeks with a crossbow - if a crossbow was anywhere nearly as effective as a gun.

Vertical bow hunters kill more deer in AR than crossbow hunters - I guess crossbows arent really all that effective

 

[Telemark]

Because that’s the point of seasons I assumed? It falls to my point, why have a distinction if there’s no inherent difference?

I have no idea. I haven't heard the Ohio DNR give a specific reason. It might be a safety issue, or it might just be because bowhunters lobbied for it.

I don't really have strong opinions about hunting seasons. I just go with the flow. I bought myself a muzzleloader many years ago so I could participate in muzzleloader seasons. Now I've bought myself a crossbow so I can participate in archery season.

My focus is on participating in hunting. I don't feel the need to prevent other people from participating. I find gatekeeping to be rather obnoxious.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I have no idea. I haven't heard the Ohio DNR give a specific reason. It might be a safety issue, or it might just be because bowhunters lobbied for it.

I don't really have strong opinions about hunting seasons. I just go with the flow. I bought myself a muzzleloader many years ago so I could participate in muzzleloader seasons. Now I've bought myself a crossbow so I can participate in archery season.

My focus is on participating in hunting. I don't feel the need to prevent other people from participating. I find gatekeeping to be rather obnoxious.

But you have a limit right? I mean why are we blackballing thermal hunters? What about guys who live through their kids athletic endeavors all fall and have no weekends to hunt, shouldn’t we give them the summers to get out and have fun?
I’m being ridiculous obviously but to say we shouldn’t have gatekeeping flies in the face of rules and regulations. There’s always going to be someone on the outside saying what about me unless it’s anarchy.

 

[Telemark]

Shooting deer with a thermal at night would be a blast right? I mean people love it for coyotes so surely it would be as good if not better.

I do that. Shooting meat deer on farm fields isn't really hunting to me. The landowner has a quota and wants the deer shot, so I go shoot them. I got tired of waiting for good moonlight, so I just bought a thermal in order to fit the harvesting into my schedule. Hunting at night is legal in Norway, and a lot of people do it. How else would you shoot nocturnal deer on hay fields?

 

[Westwind]

Shooting deer with a thermal at night would be a blast right? I mean people love it for coyotes so surely it would be as good if not better.

You got me there!

I guess I thought we were talking about hunting within the laws of the state you are in, not poaching.

 

[Telemark]

But you have a limit right? I mean why are we blackballing thermal hunters? What about guys who live through their kids athletic endeavors all fall and have no weekends to hunt, shouldn’t we give them the summers to get out and have fun?
I’m being ridiculous obviously but to say we shouldn’t have gatekeeping flies in the face of rules and regulations. There’s always going to be someone on the outside saying what about me unless it’s anarchy.

I don't think thermal scopes are forbidden. But any hunting of deer at night is not permitted in Ohio for safety reasons.

Hunting is generally not permitted in summers because baby animals are dependent on their mothers. Norway has summer seasons for male roedeer and reindeer.

Another issue with summer hunting is meat spoilage. It's not practical in many cases to hunt big game in summer. If a guy goes out in summer and shoots a deer on his own property in order to feed his family, I personally don't care, and I think he should be allowed to, as long as he doesn't shoot more than his yearly limit and doesn't orphan a fawn. Because regulating this way can be complicated, it's probably never going to be permitted to hunt deer in summer in Ohio.

 

[Telemark]

They are the ones who originally decided that there would be a differentiation in seasons based on difficulty of weapon for a lack of better term.

You are assuming the state made the decision based on the difficulty of a weapon, and that their definition of difficulty is the same as yours. You also assume their reasoning has remained unchanged since the inception of a separate archery season. Without showing proof of this, it's not a valid argument. They may have made the regulations based on the range and noise of the weapon or other factors than "difficulty".

 

[Mtyhunter]

I started my bowhunting with a recurve. My first rifle was an old winchester 3030. Yep, I've got all the great weapons now, but as I've gotten older, I'm now going back to my recurve and iron sight brush gun. I know my success rate drops dramatically using the basics, but to me, hunting is not all about killing. I do know I value the 4 deer I've taken with a recurve much much more than any deer I've taken with my compound or xbow.
One thing I've found when using my recurve more, after all these years, is my concern for wounding, as my success rate for finding the deer i shot with a recurve is historically about 30%. Yes, I've had my poor shots that were my fault, but I've also hit that armpit multiple times and never found the deer. I hate to admit that success rate, but it's the truth.
If a hunter is doing it legal, I'll always support them. Having a xbow or 1000yd rifle does not guarantee a successful hunt.

 

[Angus 1895]

It was a wake up call to me when elk hunting with a recurve.

When I rode out of camp in the dark I had left my lantern ( a Coleman double mantle gas) on a hay bale.

When I got back cattle were eating the bale and smashed my lantern.

I pulled back a 2117 Easton arrow with a 125 grain blunt using my bear super grizzly 55# bow.

The cow I hit with the arrow/ blunt was 12 yards away.

She never quit eating, or even looked up!