I am planning a red clover plow down for about 2 acres. The area is standing beans now. I plan to frost seed the clover here soon. Then in July/August I plan to put half the area in brassicas and half in oats/rye. My question involves terminating the clover. If I lightly disc it under will it kill it enough to let the brassicas and cereal grains grow or do I need to spray it to get the kill I will need?
Clover Plow Down
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
35-acre
5 year old buck +
I did something similar 2 years ago and have regretted it ever since. Well - I sprayed some off an established clover because I was trying to get a brassica mix going for the fall/winter. What actually happened was the brassica mix never took and the clover was gone. To put it simply - IT SUCKED. I had nothing growing but native grasses.
This year, I'm trying fix that by re-establishing my clover plot and mixing in some chicory too. If that works as intended, my field will continue to be a clover plot with other things over-seeded (like oat, etc.). Deer will feed in it into the winter and dig through snow to get to it. I'll throw some oats into it in the fall, no till, just throw and they will come up.
There is a planting strategy that many guys swear by (I just copied this from another post):
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Winter Peas or Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
I think that this works best if you plant the Oats and Rye a few weeks after the clover/peas/radish. Others can tell you more. The idea is that this planting leaves the salad bar open for a really long time.
This year, I'm trying fix that by re-establishing my clover plot and mixing in some chicory too. If that works as intended, my field will continue to be a clover plot with other things over-seeded (like oat, etc.). Deer will feed in it into the winter and dig through snow to get to it. I'll throw some oats into it in the fall, no till, just throw and they will come up.
There is a planting strategy that many guys swear by (I just copied this from another post):
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Winter Peas or Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
I think that this works best if you plant the Oats and Rye a few weeks after the clover/peas/radish. Others can tell you more. The idea is that this planting leaves the salad bar open for a really long time.
Bill
Administrator
I would never kill a whole clover field. I do often kill half a clover field with heavy gly and then plant brassica and clovers.
Then come back and plant rye into the brassicas in September. If it works I have brassicas in the fall and rye nursing clover the next spring. If it fails I have the clover I didn't kill and rye nursing clover in the spring.
It often fails, but I'm covered. I rotate which clover gets killed every year.
Then come back and plant rye into the brassicas in September. If it works I have brassicas in the fall and rye nursing clover the next spring. If it fails I have the clover I didn't kill and rye nursing clover in the spring.
It often fails, but I'm covered. I rotate which clover gets killed every year.
Bill
Administrator
Worst case be ready to over seed with rye in the fall. 2 warm weeks and you'll have something green it the brassicas fail.
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Red clover produces a decent amount of hard / volunteer seed if you let it produce all year without mowing. If you lightly disc it, it will still come back fairly strong. I've heavily disced it and still had some pop up later..
Hope that answers your question.
Hope that answers your question.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I would consider an annual clover for this purpose rather then Medium Red which is a short-lived perennial. Crimson or Berseem. Crimson does not frost seed well. I surface broadcast WR/CC/PTT into standing beans as soon as the leave yellow in the fall. The Crimson and WR cover early spring for me before I plant my summer crop. If I don't plant a summer crop, I can mow and keep the crimson going for the summer.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
The only time you can kill clover is when you don't want to. If you try real hard, it will fight back and thrive in the most inhospitable places.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
We've found winter rye is a safety net of sorts for fall planting. Thanks to guys on here over the years, we plant rye somewhere every year now, usually around Labor Day or shortly thereafter. Deer dig through snow to get it all winter, and it's first to green up when snow melts.
The only (somewhat) success we've had at killing clover was to spray with gly, and then a couple days later - plowing it down. Still didn't get a 100% kill.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Of those choices buckwheat is a good choice. It will germinate in pretty low soil temps but it is sensitive to cold and you must wait until the last threat of frost has passed. I find that when it is planted with low soil temps germination rates are lower and the crop is pretty lethargic. The optimal soil temp for buckwheat germination is 80 degrees, but it doesn't have to be nearly that warm to get a good crop. The food value for deer is 60-90 days. You can T&M the fall crop into the standing buckwheat and terminate it with a mower or cultipacker. I like a cultipacker best. You can get a volunteer crop of buckwheat if you let it go to seed before terminating. That can be problematic in some areas, but I've never had a problem with my soil. It actually enhances my fall plant. Deer love it when it is young and what deer don't eat is killed by the first frost making room for the other components in my fall plant. My volunteer crops are pretty light with my soil.
One more option to consider is weeds. If you don't have any particular noxious weeds that need to be dealt with over the summer, you might do well just letting the field grow up in weeds. Deer use many of the broadleaf weeds and it is free and requires less disturbance of the soil.
So I nixed the red clover plan and went with the suggested frosty berseem clover frost seeded in one of the fields this morning. I will plow it down lightly late summer and put brassicas in this spot. The other field will either be weeds, buckwheat, or heck maybe even beans. I honestly still have so many beans left that I might just disc them in in the spring and let them go again. That side will be rye and oats. Ladino is already in the middle. I put in 4 acres of beans in west central illinois and bet I still have 30 bushel and acre left or close to it. 
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Jerry - Curious how frost seeding that strain of clover works out, keep us posted!
35-acre
5 year old buck +
I guess that's somewhere in the middle of drill and broadcast rate recommendations. Drilling being 5-7lbs/ac and broadcast being 12-16lbs/ac. Sounds like something decent should show up. I've always heard that clover really spends the first year on root establishment and the subsequent years are better (for what that's worth). Enjoy!
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Berseem grows big n tall......
The brassicas might not be able to compete well. Oats should be ok.
Oats / rye I'd broadcast spread, then mow to about 3 or 4 inches. Brassicas I'd mow down some, then scratch a harrow with one pass, spread the brassica, then mow low. If it was me, I'd spray a quart of gly an acre on half the brassica spot instead of the 1st mow before the scratching. See which one does best. Definitely make sure you can pick up some oats or rye if it fails.
However, besides conservation mixes with berseem, trefoil, and perrenial rye, I have zero experince with annual clovers. I usually use red medium in new spots and grain mixes, ladino in shady areas, and white dutch if I want pure clover. Or mix those guys up.
Berseem might die all together with a gly spraying or low mow in a dry spell. Definitely do your homework.
Ive been dying to give crimson clover a try....... Just looks soooo nice. Not used much in NY though.
The brassicas might not be able to compete well. Oats should be ok.
Oats / rye I'd broadcast spread, then mow to about 3 or 4 inches. Brassicas I'd mow down some, then scratch a harrow with one pass, spread the brassica, then mow low. If it was me, I'd spray a quart of gly an acre on half the brassica spot instead of the 1st mow before the scratching. See which one does best. Definitely make sure you can pick up some oats or rye if it fails.
However, besides conservation mixes with berseem, trefoil, and perrenial rye, I have zero experince with annual clovers. I usually use red medium in new spots and grain mixes, ladino in shady areas, and white dutch if I want pure clover. Or mix those guys up.
Berseem might die all together with a gly spraying or low mow in a dry spell. Definitely do your homework.
Ive been dying to give crimson clover a try....... Just looks soooo nice. Not used much in NY though.
