Clover fertilizer question

[HAPPY DAD]

Soil my soil sample shows 14 lbs per acre of Phosphorus and 82 lbs per acre of Potassium.

The Phosphorus amount shows low on the bar graph and the Potassium shows Medium.

I have a fertilizer company that can make blends so I was hoping to have a blend made or to buy a blend that would address these 2 measurements.

My question is how many lbs of phosphorus per acre are considered "sufficient"? The bar graph does not have a number assigned to it.

Same question for my potassium. If I knew the sufficient range of lbs per acre to be considered sufficient then I could do the math on the percentages on the bags.

 

[omicron1792]

Have you limed yet? To me that’s more important than throwing fertilizer.

 

[Buckhunter10]

What is the soil cec?

Is this just clover plot?

Throwing p and k on top - in most soils is a waste of money. P is super immobile in the soil and at that ph - it’s likely to bind to solubilized metals in the soils that are already existing further decreasing the solubility (iron, mg, AI)

Id get my lime done and I’d focus on my base saturations of the soil for long term biology and water flow. I’d foliar spray clover - if you think you need it and I’d use fungi seed inoculants to help drive P solubility that’s likely already in the soil bank but needs to be made available.

Lastly - I’d absolutely recommend over seeding these fields with grains and brassicas to aid in nutrient movement and reduction of nutrient stratification in the soil profile (unequally distributed).

Hope this helps!

 

[RGrizzzz]

Does your soil test list tested ppm for P and K? Good tests list existing levels(ppm) of each and then recommend how much to add.

Take a look at the recommendations for Ladino Clover. You can get estimated yields(tons/acre) based on the fertility rate.

Soil Test Recommendations (Agricultural Analytical Services Lab)

agsci.psu.edu

 

[HAPPY DAD]

Here is the full document

 

[Buckhunter10]

Here is the full document

4.8 cec
Light soil.
Low ca and mg
Lime with dolomite lime and get the PH year one.

Is this already established?

 

[RGrizzzz]

Lime with dolomite lime and get the PH year one.

This. 3900lbs per acre per the test. Make sure you're buying Ag lime if possible, assuming you're doing more than an acre or two

 

[HAPPY DAD]

4.8 cec
Light soil.
Low ca and mg
Lime with dolomite lime and get the PH year one.

Is this already established?

I have an acre of clover established but spotty. I have 7 acres total that I need to lime, but its been hard staying within my budge when needing 12 tons and it being quote at $60 per ton with me picking up, hauling and spreading

 

[omicron1792]

I have an acre of clover established but spotty. I have 7 acres total that I need to lime, but its been hard staying within my budge when needing 12 tons and it being quote at $60 per ton with me picking up, hauling and spreading

That’s money and time weeeellll spent compared to 20 dollar bags of fertilizer. You’d need to throw 300lbs per acre of fertilizer and be wasting a ton of it.

Many here get their soil in good shape and no longer use fertilizer. I like to lime and use p and k fertilizer year one on a field then never use fertilizer again. I never use N fertilizer.

Most clover won’t thrive until ph over 6. Really Rye is about the only thing I have found to do well on low ph soil, and you have to use about 200lbs/acre to get there.

 

[RGrizzzz]

That’s money and time weeeellll spent compared to 20 dollar bags of fertilizer. You’d need to throw 300lbs per acre of fertilizer and be wasting a ton of it.

Agreed!

Can you find a lime dealer with a buggy to spread it for you? If you share your general location, maybe someone can make a recommendation.

 

[HAPPY DAD]

Agreed!

Can you find a lime dealer with a buggy to spread it for you? If you share your general location, maybe someone can make a recommendation.

I am in Greenwood South Carolina and am having a hard time finding ag lime at all!

I just called Smith Farm Supply to see what kind of pricing they have, but the guy was gone to lunch so I will call back

 

[RGrizzzz]

I am in Greenwood South Carolina and am having a hard time finding ag lime at all!

I just called Smith Farm Supply to see what kind of pricing they have, but the guy was gone to lunch so I will call back

Looks like they can do it. There might be some sticker shock, but lime is always the first step!

For reference, last year I paid $800 plus tax to have 20 tons delivered. ($40/ton) That was standard calcitic lime, not the high mag lime. Be aware that high mag lime can be damp and is much harder to spread without the right equipment. It doesn't look like you need high mag, so not really a factor, but if you did, it would be better to have it spread for you.

 

[omicron1792]

There are often rock quarries in area that can deliver bulk lime cheaper. I got something like 26 tons delivered a few years ago in Alabama for like 600 dollars.

I had a local guy that does work around farms spread it. He rented the lime buggy from the local coop and spread it on about 10 acres in one day.

 

[HAPPY DAD]

Looks like they can do it. There might be some sticker shock, but lime is always the first step!

For reference, last year I paid $800 plus tax to have 20 tons delivered. ($40/ton) That was standard calcitic lime, not the high mag lime. Be aware that high mag lime can be damp and is much harder to spread without the right equipment. It doesn't look like you need high mag, so not really a factor, but if you did, it would be better to have it spread for you.
View attachment 75517

Yea getting in touch with Glenn who is over the lime stuff seems to be really hard and the girls answering the phone dont have the pricing. I called 2 weeks ago and left my number, never got a return call. Have called twice today and haven't been able to get a hold of Glenn. left my number again but not very hopeful i will get a return call

 

[HAPPY DAD]

There are often rock quarries in area that can deliver bulk lime cheaper. I got something like 26 tons delivered a few years ago in Alabama for like 600 dollars.

I had a local guy that does work around farms spread it. He rented the lime buggy from the local coop and spread it on about 10 acres in one day.

That is what I was hoping to find but no luck yet. Even if i had to rent a dump trailer and haul it myself

 

[omicron1792]

That is what I was hoping to find but no luck yet. Even if i had to rent a dump trailer and haul it myself

I’ve been there brother. I posted on here several years back about my adventure with getting my placed limed.

These liming services are geared toward 1000 acre farms not food plots.

If you look around you can find cheap lime. Sometimes free at rock places. Load up a trailer with a tarp or back of a pickup truck. Manu stories of people on here spreading by hand with shovel from back of pickup or bucket of tractor. Heck you can slowly dump it on plots from tractor bucket. Really can’t put too much.

Read @Foggy47 stuff. He bought on old drop spreader and spreads it himself with good luck. Do a ton or two at a time. Cool if you can get one to pull behind a side by side because then you can use front end loader of tractor to load the lime and not have to hook up everytime.

Just know you’ll be chasing your tail if you don’t lime.

I’ve had pretty good luck with liquid lime called advanced cal If you have a good sprayer. Then you can throw a couple hundred pounds of pellet lime out each time you plant and do ok.

 

[HAPPY DAD]

I’ve been there brother. I posted on here several years back about my adventure with getting my placed limed.

These liming services are geared toward 1000 acre farms not food plots.

If you look around you can find cheap lime. Sometimes free at rock places. Load up a trailer with a tarp or back of a pickup truck. Manu stories of people on here spreading by hand with shovel from back of pickup or bucket of tractor. Heck you can slowly dump it on plots from tractor bucket. Really can’t put too much.

Read @Foggy47 stuff. He bought on old drop spreader and spreads it himself with good luck. Do a ton or two at a time. Cool if you can get one to pull behind a side by side because then you can use front end loader of tractor to load the lime and not have to hook up everytime.

Just know you’ll be chasing your tail if you don’t lime.

I’ve had pretty good luck with liquid lime called advanced cal If you have a good sprayer. Then you can throw a couple hundred pounds of pellet lime out each time you plant and do ok.

Yea I have a 12’ drop spreader oiled up and ready to go just can’t find any product to put in it

 

[SD51555]

Yeah, fertilizer will do you no good.

I would apply:

3000 lbs/ac calcitic lime (don't get this wrong. If they cannot give you a lime analysis, hang up or walk out)
300 lbs/ac of gypsum
Get some controllable grasses and broadleaves growing with it, or nature will send them for you.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Yeah, fertilizer will do you no good.

I would apply:

3000 lbs/ac calcitic lime (don't get this wrong. If they cannot give you a lime analysis, hang up or walk out)
300 lbs/ac of gypsum
Get some controllable grasses and broadleaves growing with it, or nature will send them for you.

Always appreciate your take - I’m curious why you’d use that much CA?

My concern on a low cec soil with very low mg- you’ll over flocculate the soil and further reduce chemical structure. For more upper Midwest soils - I’m with you on hammering the CA, but curious why you feel that’s the need here?

 

[bigboreblr]

Buffered pH is when they put sone line on your small sample. My Agone lab in NY i believe thats equivalent to 2 tons / acre.


Lime results are akso based on tillage, how deep you can mix rhat in. Generslky 6 inches tillage is the norm advice. Depending on crop code, you numbers can change alot.

Seeing buffered pH raising pH by 2.5 means you sont need alot of lime.

Id lime 1 ton/acre retest next year. If your running discs on the plot, maybe 1.5 ton acre and 300lbs acre 6-24-24.

no till ususlly advises 1/2 ton acre per year max ubtil youre in a decent pH range

Iused to fertilize before going min to no till. I have sone real junk spots at my clubs leased camp. I can only play with whats open already.

I use fertilizer where i can not make a decent plot. If it makes decent results, i let it go.

I till to level and mix lime in deeper when i start a new foodplot. After rhat i do no till.

Done clover many times. After awhike its a loosing weed battle. Need sonething to use the nitrogen, for me oats in spring or rye in fall. Oats use alot of potassium.

CErtsin plants mine nutrients from deeper ib the soil, like buckwheat.