Can you use too much seed?

[35-acre]

I use T&M. I know in doing so we have to go heavier with seeding rates. But can you go too heavy and cause a different issue?

Here's my stuation:
Again, I'm basing this question on T&M. Anyone who recognizes my handle has seen me mention that I do this for several reasons (bad starting soil/to build soil, lack of access with big equipment and lack of big equipment). I'm getting ready to lay down some seed for my fall plots. This weekend I started to target some of the less desirable sections of my field with some gly. Then I dragged everything with my ATV/harrow rake setup. This was mainly to knock down the taller stuff. Both of these things were in prep for planting in about 2 weeks.

I've got an acre and a half field.
I purchased 2 acres worth of Tecomate Monster Mix (This is mainly Clover and Chickory that I want to re-establish and keep it going for a few years).
I also picked up (as an impulse buy) and Evolved Harvest Mega Plot Hunter Series bag (1/2 acre worth) which is triticale, oats, turnips and more clover.

All in this looks like 2 1/12 acres worth of seed for a 1 acre field.

Anyone see any issues with that? To me it seems like the right rate.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I won't tell you how much seed I put in my 1/2 acre plot last year, but I had it on hand and I wasn't sure what the soil was like so I let it fly. It turned out to be at least a factor of 2, if not 3 times the amount that was typically called for (rate of 6 lbs/1/2 acre called for, I used 12-15). I also put 100 lbs of WR and 50 lbs of WW and 6 lbs of brassicas. I don't know about issues (for now) as I just planted last fall, but I think it looked pretty good in the fall and really good now. I have heard of issues with using too much, but depending on how you are planting (I broadcast all my seed) definitely makes a difference as well. In my opinion using more WR or other grains won't hurt.
I am not an expert by any means, but I always seed higher by at least a factor of 2...
October 2020

Deer digging through the plot in late January (these 8-10 deer were in the plot nightly from mid January till March)

Plot last week-the yellow flowers are brassicas blooming

 

[Tree Spud]

Yes, seeding rates exist for a reason. Too much stunts growth dur to competition for nutrients and water.

 

[SwampCat]

If you are looking to produce fruiting bodies - seed, vegetables, fruits - you can definitely over seed. You can also over seed with brassicas. With cereal grains and clovers - where you just want vegetative growth - I think it would be difficult to over seed - especially on a tnm. I do a tnm or two each year and always go double seeding rate - and they still end up mediocre at best.

I just planted some browntop millet for doves at twice recommended rate. I had sprayed the five acres - and a couple days of rain was forecast - all I did was spread it - didnt mow afterward. Got two inches of rain over three days. I think every seed germinated. No doubt will stunt the seed heads, but there will be a lot more of them.

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, you can use too much seed, but a lot depends on your application. For example, if you let turnips bolt and go to seed, they produce so much seed that you will have way too many plants per square foot. They will germinate at nearly the same time and compete with each other for very limited resources. Thus, you end up with many stunted plants, none of which do well. Another concern is a bad mix of seed. For example, if you broadcast a mix that has a high rate of brassica, much of your other seed may be wasted as the brassica can shade out other lower growing plants.

Having said that, keep in mind that seeding rates and plants/sqft depend on germination. Germination depends on many factors. If seed is old, we often increase seeding rates to compensate. Depending on planting technique and soil type, germination rates will vary. For example, if you cultipack, you press seed into the soil, create an uneven surface to allow rain to soak in, and compress air out of the soil increasing seed/soil contact and germination rates. Drilling seed give you higher germination rates than surface broadcasting. Then you have weather and rainfall with respect to planting time. Surface broadcast seed can be predated by birds between broadcast and germination. Once germination occurs you then have browsing pressure depending on the type of seed planted. Some crops will not grow if browsed before they hit a certain stage of development. So, you deer numbers play a role as well.

Advertised seeding rates and mixes are a good general starting point, but there can be a lot of trial and error to find out what seeding rate works best for your situation and particular mix. Let your results and observations drive your rates for the following year.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Yes, you can use too much seed, but a lot depends on your application. For example, if you let turnips bolt and go to seed, they produce so much seed that you will have way too many plants per square foot. They will germinate at nearly the same time and compete with each other for very limited resources. Thus, you end up with many stunted plants, none of which do well. Another concern is a bad mix of seed. For example, if you broadcast a mix that has a high rate of brassica, much of your other seed may be wasted as the brassica can shade out other lower growing plants.

Having said that, keep in mind that seeding rates and plants/sqft depend on germination. Germination depends on many factors. If seed is old, we often increase seeding rates to compensate. Depending on planting technique and soil type, germination rates will vary. For example, if you cultipack, you press seed into the soil, create an uneven surface to allow rain to soak in, and compress air out of the soil increasing seed/soil contact and germination rates. Drilling seed give you higher germination rates than surface broadcasting. Then you have weather and rainfall with respect to planting time. Surface broadcast seed can be predated by birds between broadcast and germination. Once germination occurs you then have browsing pressure depending on the type of seed planted. Some crops will not grow if browsed before they hit a certain stage of development. So, you deer numbers play a role as well.

Advertised seeding rates and mixes are a good general starting point, but there can be a lot of trial and error to find out what seeding rate works best for your situation and particular mix. Let your results and observations drive your rates for the following year.

Thanks,

Jack

Good call on the deer numbers, usage timing and germination rates Jack! Some of the seed I had was 1+ year old. I also have a high deer density, but I am surrounded by alot of Ag-hay, soybeans and corn, so the deer do not really start to hit the plot until after those Ag crops are harvested. Also, when you plant (I'm trying an early-mid July trial of brassicas this year to see if I can get them taller) can definitely have an effect. Last year I split my plantings, spreading the brassicas and clover in early August, followed by the WR/WW in early September. This year it will be early-mid July for the brassicas and clover and maybe the same time frame for the grains. Will split a new plot with the earlier seeding and an existing plot with the usual low-mow and then seeding some more brassicas.

 

[35-acre]

Good call on the deer numbers, usage timing and germination rates Jack! Some of the seed I had was 1+ year old. I also have a high deer density, but I am surrounded by alot of Ag-hay, soybeans and corn, so the deer do not really start to hit the plot until after those Ag crops are harvested. Also, when you plant (I'm trying an early-mid July trial of brassicas this year to see if I can get them taller) can definitely have an effect. Last year I split my plantings, spreading the brassicas and clover in early August, followed by the WR/WW in early September. This year it will be early-mid July for the brassicas and clover and maybe the same time frame for the grains. Will split a new plot with the earlier seeding and an existing plot with the usual low-mow and then seeding some more brassicas.

I'm doing the same thing this year Don. Moving my plantings up some to see if they will get further towards maturity. I'll likely get some oats and Winter Wheat (WW) to compliment things as well. My main focus is to get clover and chicory going (as perennials) so that I can top dress/supplement periodically. My favorite thing to broadcast into a standing field is rolled oats (horse feed) as it's super cheap and grows quick just by broadcasting it into whatever else I have going. The deer hammer it!

 

[Turkish]

MSU Deer Lab is working on documenting some testing done. From a high level, it seems like their results were that high seeding rates were not detrimental to the plants’ growth until they got mature and were no longer as preferred to deer anyway. Will be interesting to see.

 

[SwampCat]

MSU Deer Lab is working on documenting some testing done. From a high level, it seems like their results were that high seeding rates were not detrimental to the plants’ growth until they got mature and we’re no longer as preferred to deer anyway. Will be interesting to see.

For grains, I dont doubt that at all. I have spilled wheat in a pile, it it grows tall, lush, and green. I think it feeds off the rotting seeds buried in the bottom of the pile.