Calling all Thistle warriors...

[Tap]

When they talk about weed resistance to Roundup it is related to the normal rate. Put enough Gly on anything and it will kill it.

I was spraying some of the thistle patches with almost 50/50 Glyphosate (48.8%) to water. I was hack and squirting privet, bittersweet, and grape in the spring and I took the same mix and spot sprayed the thistle. And I did that several times over the course of a month or so. Every time I would see new thistle emerging, I'd go spray every one I could find. I put dye in my mix so I see where I sprayed so I don't believe I was missing very many emerged plants. I got great top-kill, but the areas where I was SO meticulous with spraying is now thick with thistle.
Now...Are these plants re-sprouts of the same ones I already sprayed, or are they just new plants that were not emerged when I sprayed all those times before?

 

[Tap]

2,4D has no residual by it's self.
trimec style products have dycamba (sp) and it has residual.
4 to6 oz per gallon with heavy surfactant for spot spraying when rosette is
6 to 10 inch and before seed stalk shoots up for best results. If stalk is up I lay over and crimp with my boot and spray to wet all foliage.
Don't recall ever having to respray for inadequate kill.
hope this helps.

Do you ever get re-establishment of thistle where you spot spray? I have areas where I've sprayed extremely strong mix of gly and the thistle is quite persistent and I'm not sure if I'm just getting top-kill and the roots survive and sprout again.

 

[Tap]

Use 7-8 oz of Milestone herbicide per acre, in the spring when plants are actively growing. It is about 90% effective, and is the best option for being safe around wildlife and livestock.

I have some Milestone in my herbicide arsenal. But the stuff just gives me the creeps when I read the label. The set back time for re-planting a lot of follow-up crops is up to three years!

This is from the Milestone label. I put the type in red where I see the most concern...

1. • Crop Rotation: Do not rotate to any crop from rangeland, permanent pasture or CRP acres within one year following treatment. Cereals and corn can be planted one year after treatment. Broadleaf crops
   are sensitive to aminopyralid residues in the soil and prediction of
   crop safety by field biassay (see instructions below) is the BEST way to determine planting options. Broadleaf crops such as canola, flax, and alfalfa can require at least 2 to 3 years depending on the crop and environmental conditions. More sensitive crops such as soybeans, tobacco, peanuts, potatoes, and peas may require a longer plant back interval and should not be planted until a field bioassay shows that the level of aminopyralid present in the soil will not adversely affect that broadleaf crop.
   
   So, do I understand that right? Even if I want to plant just cereal (rye, oats, wheat), do I have to wait a year for those and maybe up to 3 years for legume species? And if that's the case, what do I grow during that 1st year that I wait to plant cereals? I don't want bare soil.
   

 

[MoBuckChaser]

In Your original post you talked about planting into switch grass or spraying thistles in switch, I didn't read about you wanting to plant anything else. Milestone is the safest on the market for wildlife and livestock I believe. I would not use it if you intend on planting anything else.

 

[Tap]

In Your original post you talked about planting into switch grass or spraying thistles in switch, I didn't read about you wanting to plant anything else. Milestone is the safest on the market for wildlife and livestock I believe. I would not use it if you intend on planting anything else.

I have thistle in my switch and thistle in my perennial plots. I have thistle in my summer plot. I went to the hardware store today to get some parts for stands and when I got out of my truck, what was the 1st thing I saw? THISTLE growing in the landscape display. The crap is haunting and taunting me:eek:

 

[Barndog56]

Copied from 'gardening know how'.....

"While Canada thistle will grow anywhere, it grows best in soil with low fertility and open areas. Improving your soil’s fertility will weaken the Canada thistle and help desired plants grow better and, therefore, make them better able to compete with the Canada thistle."

Read more at Gardening Know How: Controlling Canada Thistle – Canada Thistle Identification And Control http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/plant-problems/weeds/canada-thistle-control.htm

 

[4wanderingeyes]

You have thistle, I have bracken ferns. It is all over the place. I have declared war on it in my food plots, but it covers at least 5 acres of my land. The ferns grow to 4-5 feet tall, and shade out everything. I have done fairly well keeping up with the ferns in my food plots, but if I don't knock it back in the other areas it will just spread back. Like thistle, ferns thrive in low ph, and poor fertile soils, so I have been trying to fix the soil, and any time I saw it growing, I knock it down to the ground, or spray it. I wish you luck!

 

[Tap]

Copied from 'gardening know how'.....

"While Canada thistle will grow anywhere, it grows best in soil with low fertility and open areas. Improving your soil’s fertility will weaken the Canada thistle and help desired plants grow better and, therefore, make them better able to compete with the Canada thistle."

Read more at Gardening Know How: Controlling Canada Thistle – Canada Thistle Identification And Control http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/plant-problems/weeds/canada-thistle-control.htm

Thanks for that link.
I don't believe that my soil is low in fertility and the pH is around 6.2
The fact that the thistle has lower competition, in my case, is due to deer pounding the forages I plant. It's the over browsing that allows the thistle to out-compete, not marginal soil.
The deer eat everything but the crap, so the crap flourishes.

There is one downside to growing highly desirable forages in areas with high deer per square mile and that's that the deer pound the desirable forage and reduce the competition to weeds and they flourish. I saw that happen in a plot of Balansa clover this year. In early to late spring the clover grew to over 3 feet and out-competed everything. But as we got into summer, the clover was not keeping up with browsing pressure and basically, the thistle was "released".
Sometime I think I'd have less weed issues if I grew slightly lesser desirable forages.

One thing I did learn from the link is that thistle should not be pulled. A few years ago, I spent a lot of time doing just that. It's possible that I made things worse at the time. I also believe tillage in areas of thistle exacerbates the problem. I've gone to very limited tillage this year.
The article also says that fighting thistle will need to be done repeatedly. Yikes, have I ever done that! That's why this has become so frustrating. To spend so much time, energy and money and not be winning the fight is demoralizing. I have much better things to do.

I'm thinking that the thistle on my place has become glyphosate resistant. I get top-kill with the strongest gly mix but the roots are surviving.
I guess its way past time to switch to a different herbicide...I'm thinking 2,4-D; But I've already sprayed 48% Roundup a week ago so I assume any chemical that I would use now would not be absorbed into the plant sufficiently. There are a few small areas of thistle that haven't been sprayed with gly, so maybe I'll mix up some 2,4-D and go spot spray...yet again.
I'll be trying 2,4-D next spring on the main trouble areas.

 

[H20fwler]

I also use crossbow on anything I want for sure dead. It is potent stuff, I spray honey locust with it.

 

[Prairiesneak]

Stinger herbicide is the best on Canada thistle in my experience. Early fall is the best time to spray the new plants in the rosette stage.

 

[Tap]

Stinger herbicide is the best on Canada thistle in my experience. Early fall is the best time to spray the new plants in the rosette stage.

Okay...Now we're getting somewhere. This is why I started this thread...I realize that there are now dozens of herbicides available but I needed help sorting through them.
I (quickly) read the Stinger label and it sounds extremely promising. A little expensive, but I've already spent the equivalent amount of cash spraying gly to no avail.
Stinger was also raved about for thistle control on a farming forum.
I also see that it's effective on a few other weed issues I have like Jerusalem Artichoke. It is supposed to control ragweed and galinsoga, which I have, but my deer eat those weeds.

And the rotation interval is not prohibitive. It looks like it'll kill clover but I should be able to replant clover in 10 months or so. It's friendly to brassica, wheat, and several other crops so I can fill-in with other species until the residual is diminished.

Is there a downside to Stinger that I missed?

Thank you so much Prairiesneak for the heads-up! VERY appreciated:):):)

 

[Tap]

i always use curtail... then mix it with some liquid nitrogen

Looks like Curtail is similar to Stinger, clopyralid...correct?
Never heard of using liquid nitrogen as an herbicide additive, or have I under a different name??

 

[Tap]

Keystone Pest sells Clopyralid 3 (same as Stinger), shipped to my door for $72 per qt. That will cover 2-4 acres but I'll be spot spraying. Mix at 1/2 ounce per gallon of water with no other additives needed.
Keystone says it's the best stuff they sell for thistle control.
If this stuff works as advertised it'll be a bargain.
Thanks for the help, guys.

 

[Buckly]

That's not a bad price expense wise. I know some people will also mix it with Gly.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Use Surfactant!

Broadcast Application (Ground or Aerial)
For control of broadleaf weeds, apply 1/4 to 2/3 pint per acre of CLOPYRALID 3 (equivalent
to 0.09 to 0.25 lb a.e. per acre). Non-ionic surfactant should be used in spray mixtures at 1
to 2 quarts per 100 gallons of spray mixture. The lower rate of 1/4 pint per acre provides
acceptable control of weeds only under highly favorable plant growing conditions and when
plants are no larger than 3 to 6 inches tall. Where Canada thistle or knapweeds are the primary
pest, best results are obtained by applying 2/3 pint per acre of CLOPYRALID 3 after
basal leaves are produced. Spray volumes of 20 gallons or more per acre for ground roadside
and rights-of-way applications and spray volumes 5 gallons or more per acre or more for aerial
applications will ensure adequate coverage. CLOPYRALID 3 can be applied in an invert
emulsion using oil and an appropriate inverting agent. Follow label directions of the inverting
agent. Established grasses are tolerant to CLOPYRALID 3, but new grass seedlings may be
injured to varying degrees until the grass has become well established as indicated by vigorous
growth and development of tillers and secondary roots.

 

[Tap]

Use Surfactant!

Broadcast Application (Ground or Aerial)
For control of broadleaf weeds, apply 1/4 to 2/3 pint per acre of CLOPYRALID 3 (equivalent
to 0.09 to 0.25 lb a.e. per acre). Non-ionic surfactant should be used in spray mixtures at 1
to 2 quarts per 100 gallons of spray mixture. The lower rate of 1/4 pint per acre provides
acceptable control of weeds only under highly favorable plant growing conditions and when
plants are no larger than 3 to 6 inches tall. Where Canada thistle or knapweeds are the primary
pest, best results are obtained by applying 2/3 pint per acre of CLOPYRALID 3 after
basal leaves are produced. Spray volumes of 20 gallons or more per acre for ground roadside
and rights-of-way applications and spray volumes 5 gallons or more per acre or more for aerial
applications will ensure adequate coverage. CLOPYRALID 3 can be applied in an invert
emulsion using oil and an appropriate inverting agent. Follow label directions of the inverting
agent. Established grasses are tolerant to CLOPYRALID 3, but new grass seedlings may be
injured to varying degrees until the grass has become well established as indicated by vigorous
growth and development of tillers and secondary roots.

Thanks Mo. I read the label a couple times but I missed that...was watching the Steelers beat the Bungles at the same time I was reading the label:)
I'll gladly add surfactant and anything else I need to kill this evil weed.

 

[nwmn]

Thanks Mo. I read the label a couple times but I missed that...was watching the Steelers beat the Bungles at the same time I was reading the label:)
I'll gladly add surfactant and anything else I need to kill this evil weed.

Tap, wanted to circle back on this and see how your thistle journey is going. I've been battling it the past 3 years and starting to see results...by results I mean the heavy infestations are gone but now I see the random plant here and there and it makes my blood boil still :)

I've been using milestone and sonora(stinger) which dusts it very quickly. I'm trying to maintain the natives around where the thistle is prevalent which has proven to be very difficult as a broadcast application is not in the cards since there will always be collateral damage. I was told by someone in the industry who deals with invasives and he said to go in after a killing frost and spray. I've noticed the invasives tend to stay green while the natives are dormant. With herbicides it gets to be very complex in a hurry since some chemicals are safe on some and not on the others.

 

[Tap]

Tap, wanted to circle back on this and see how your thistle journey is going. I've been battling it the past 3 years and starting to see results...by results I mean the heavy infestations are gone but now I see the random plant here and there and it makes my blood boil still :)

I've been using milestone and sonora(stinger) which dusts it very quickly. I'm trying to maintain the natives around where the thistle is prevalent which has proven to be very difficult as a broadcast application is not in the cards since there will always be collateral damage. I was told by someone in the industry who deals with invasives and he said to go in after a killing frost and spray. I've noticed the invasives tend to stay green while the natives are dormant. With herbicides it gets to be very complex in a hurry since some chemicals are safe on some and not on the others.

My journey?? It's been a trip from hell. Not just with the thistle, it's bad overall with multiple invasives. The stitgrass is so bad around here to the point it's taken the wind from my sails. Mile-a-Minute is really bad too. Huge acreage areas are blanketed in stiltgrass. My yard, and what used to be beautiful plots, my sanctuaries, large blocks of timber/cover...it's all blanketed in stiltgrass. I've basically thrown in the towel with plotting. And I'm sick of buying and spraying chemicals.
One of the fields (1 acre) that I worked so hard for years to eradicate the thistle needed to be converted into cover. I wanted to create screen so I can better access an area undetected. Access is very difficult here. When that field was a wide open plot, I couldn't access a block of cover to hunt without constantly getting busted by feeding deer. So I decided to allow my 7 year old speckled alder patch to expand and just claim the field and revert to needed cover. This is not an easy property to hunt...wind patterns, access, bedding, etc...it's hard to hunt this place.

Well, since I didn't maintain/mow that field for a year, it exploded into a solid patch of thistle...thousands of thistle plants. Which proved to me that thistle can never really be completely eradicated.
Relax for a year and it creeps back in. Relax for 2 years and it takes hold. By the 3rd year it completely takes over.

So my actual "food plotting" is pretty much done with. I do keep some other areas mowed, and I've expanded my pears, crabs, chestnuts, DCO, and I added a few persimmon. I really can't say that I have noticed any reduction in deer numbers or antler quality.

I've also had a bad year for my health. Nothing major but it looks like I may need an ankle replacement which will require months of recovery and rehab.
Since last December, it's been a struggle to do almost all my required chores, let alone go out and fight thistle or do habitat work. I'm a one man show here. All habitat work on 115 acres has to be done by me alone. I'm now 66 years old and running out of energy and ambition. My body hurts. Rheumatoid arthritis sucks too.
My ankle is doing a little better in the last 2 weeks but my hunting season is still in question.
And I somehow sprained my clavicle and I couldn't draw my recurve for the last 3 months so I'm not really in condition to ethically shoot at a critter right now. The collar bone issue is healing up and I can now shoot again but I'm really rusty. I might still be able to pull off a few hunts but I'd better get it together in a hurry because the rut is just beginning to get active here. Scrapes are being pounded and daylight buck activity is picking up.
Sorry for the long post.

So no, my thistle battle has not been won to say the least. It's been pretty much a failure.
But the good news is they put in a gas line thru my neighbors place which created about 6 acres of a gorgeous clover plot. I have exclusive permission to hunt that property.

Good luck to you and everyone else with your war on thistle and any other chinese invasives. Man, the habitat here in SW PA is a disaster. And now we have spotted lantern fly. Yet another battle on the near horizon. Makes my want to just curl up in the fetal position.

 

[nwmn]

I hear you on the ankle. I broke mine in May of 2022. Basically worthless in terms of doing anything and got a year behind. Being a one man show is tough. It's easy to lose drive and ambition. My only saving grace is seeing a pocket of natives that are thriving here and there. That, and fall herbicide treatment. This week with temps almost hitting 70, i'll be putting hours on the sprayer and getting everyrthing green sprayed. Nothing worse than thinking site prep was good and then you get both annual weeds and perennial invasives. Tansy is one of the big ones here, along with thistle.

I've learned to basically just use milestone. That's the most effective and safest on natives. It'll kill some, but not all. I really feel your pain. It's so overwhelming and disheartening seeing how all this garbage somehow ends up on our landscape and there's essentially zero effort, or care to get rid of any of it. When your roadsides have 4' tall thistles for an entire mile stretch, you know there's no effort in getting rid or suppressing this ugly plant. With technology you'd think they'd be able to use some sort of spray or mist that goes into the atmosphere that will kill anything that doesn't have the correct DNA in a specific area.

They can do that with humans, why are we not funding ecosystem technology? People want to save the planet, but dont want to save their local ecosystems....it's interesting.