Cal Turf Pro

IRISH56

Buck Fawn
New to the food plot game ….. looking for pelletized lime a local Ag store recommended Cal Turf Pro as it only requires 250#/acre. Soil test says 2500#/acre.

What am I missing?? My apologies as I’m sure this is not as simple as I am making it.

DAN


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New to the food plot game ….. looking for pelletized lime a local Ag store recommended Cal Turf Pro as it only requires 250#/acre. Soil test says 2500#/acre.

What am I missing?? My apologies as I’m sure this is not as simple as I am making it.

DAN


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There are a couple of other threads out there, some even from this winter, on pel lime vs. ag lime rates. I would give them a look over. In short, it depends on how much (area and volume) you need to spread and what equipment you have available. I am a fan of pel lime because it is easy to spread with an ATV-mounted rotary spreader. Traditional ag lime typically needs either a drop spreader or a floater that can spread the finer ag lime more efficiently. I have been gradually raising the pH of around 3 acres because it was cheaper for me to buy the more expensive pel lime and spread it myself, than to pay someone else to come spread such a small area.

What was your soil pH and buffer pH?
 
Agree with Hoyt, you don't want to spread Ag Lime without a buggy. I am not familiar with Cal Turf Pro but you aren't that far off PH if you only need 2,500#'s per acre (or 1.25 tons if I mathed it right). My soil test said PH was 5.3 and suggested 5 tons of Ag lime per acre but it really wasn't necessary. I planted buckwheat and sunn hemp in the spring and brassicas, clover and WR in the fall and had better than expected results. The brassica's had softball sized bulbs and I had deer in the plots all winter which was my goal, so your PH might not be that far off in reality.
 
@Hoytvectrix and others correct me if my takeaways from prior coverage of this topic are off - but my understanding is the following:

Total neutralizing value is the same between pulverized ag lime and pelletized lime (with quantities corrected for CCE) while there may be some differences to how fast acting it is based on how fine the particles are. Co-ops frequently suggest the pelletized lime can be used at lesser values because it's more expensive and they figure it's easier for a food plotter who's not as dependent on yield to just put down 250#/acre every year than paying for and spreading over a ton of pellet lime in one application. So 250# of pellet lime will not impact ph the same as 2500# of ag lime, the co-ops just recommend something that's more palatable for food plotters with small acreage or with locations they cant get a lime buggy to.

If my understanding is accurate, the way co-ops state it seems misleading at best.
 
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Thanks for the replies fellas .... I have been doing some searching and will keep looking. I have a tow behind spreader and I plan to spread pelletized lime. Actual ph listed below but I don't know what the "buffer" ph is unless its called something different on here.

DAN


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@Hoytvectrix and others correct me if my takeaways from prior coverage of this topic are off - but my understanding is the following:

Total neutralizing value is the same between pulverized ag lime and pelletized lime while there may be some differences to how fast acting it is based on how fine the particles are. Co-ops frequently suggest the pelletized lime can be used at lesser values because it's more expensive and they figure it's easier for a food plotter who's not as dependent on yield to just put down 250#/acre every year than paying for and spreading over a ton of pellet lime in one application. So 250# of pellet lime will not impact ph the same as 2500# of ag lime, the co-ops just recommend something that's more palatable for food plotters with small acreage or with locations they cant get a lime buggy to.

If my understanding is accurate, the way co-ops state it seems misleading at best.
This is somewhat accurate. The total neutralizing value can vary pretty dramatically from different sources, especially for ag lime. I think how fast the pel lime "works" is kind of a marketing gimmick and isn't necessarily any faster or efficiently. I believe there are some extension publications out of ISU that state this.

As far as why it is recommended despite being more expensive....comes down to convenience. It can be bulk blended with other dry fertilizers and is easier to handle. The margins are higher for whomever is selling pel lime compared to ag lime, especially if that extra cost can be obscured with a fertilizer app.
 
Thanks for the replies fellas .... I have been doing some searching and will keep looking. I have a tow behind spreader and I plan to spread pelletized lime. Actual ph listed below but I don't know what the "buffer" ph is unless its called something different on here.

DAN


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Actual pH sometimes called water pH or just pH tells you if you need lime. Buffer pH is a calculation by the testing lab to tell you how much you need. I was just curious. I'm surprised your pH is that low compared to that lime recommendation. It makes me think they are presenting one of multiple apps across years.

This is what I would do. 300 lbs pel lime/acre for the next two years and then re-test your soil before years 3's app. You should see the pH change and get an idea for how much more lime to add.
 
This is somewhat accurate. The total neutralizing value can vary pretty dramatically from different sources, especially for ag lime. I think how fast the pel lime "works" is kind of a marketing gimmick and isn't necessarily any faster or efficiently. I believe there are some extension publications out of ISU that state this.
[edit: i clarified my first post to note when corrected for CCE] But i've never heard of ag lime with 10% of the CCE of pel lime such to justify the claim you only need 10% to get the same effect. So if they want to say 2000# of pel lime is the same as 2500# of 80 CCE ag lime sure but that's not what co-ops are telling us non-ag folks.
As far as why it is recommended despite being more expensive....comes down to convenience. It can be bulk blended with other dry fertilizers and is easier to handle. The margins are higher for whomever is selling pel lime compared to ag lime, especially if that extra cost can be obscured with a fertilizer app.

To lie and tell customers it's 10x more effective than reality is BS, even more so if they are doing it because the margins are bigger. Saying it's 10x more effective has nothing to do with the fact that it's easier to spread with an atv or mix with fertilizer blends.
 
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[edit: i clarified my first post to note when corrected for CCE] But i've never heard of ag lime with 10% of the CCE of pel lime such to justify the claim you only need 10% to get the same effect. So if they want to say 2000# of pel lime is the same as 2500# of 80 CCE ag lime sure but that's not what co-ops are telling us non-ag folks.


To lie and tell customers it's 10x more effective than reality is BS, even more so if they are doing it because the margins are bigger. Saying it's 10x more effective has nothing to do with the fact that it's easier to spread with an atv or mix with fertilizer blends.
I completely agree with you. I worked in the Ag fertilizer/soil health space the last several years. It is one of the many reasons why I left. Keep in mind that the rate itself is also based on the cost of the product. Nobody would ever spread pel lime at the same rates as ag lime because it would be so cost prohibitive.

With that said, the fact that it can be bulk blended with other dry fertilizer products and/or spread without the specialized equipment makes it much more appealing for many customers, not just the ones spreading it.
 
Like most have said on here, use pelletized lime and spread about a 1/3 of that 2500lbs for the next year or two. 5.6pH isn't horrible. if 2500 gets you to 6.5, then 1000-1100 lbs / acre will get you into the 6 range. Most pelletized lime has less potency than pure calcium carbonate. Mined limestone isn't 100% calcium carbonate. so, AG lime isn't pure either. But pelletized lime is between 80 and 90%, So you need 10-20% more than AG lime. Here's soil doctors info.


I bought a drop spreader that can do powdered AG lime, but still use pelletized lime in small remote plots, or mix small seed with pelletized lime.

I used to open the bags and save the ones with smaller pellets for mixing with clover. Put the majority of the lime, mix it into the soil if your doing tillage, then spread the clover seed on the top after tillage.

Places like lowe's and home depot have discounts if you pick up more than 10 or 12. Last year pelletized lime was hard to find at those stores.

Make sure you wear a respirator, breathing that dust is pretty nasty.
 
I’m the oddball here with this.

I would use plot start spray this year to get a quick ph boost for better crops now. Plant green and heavy cover crop, soil boosting crops. Every time you plant out out 5 or so bags of pellet lime for the next few cycles. Then it will be self sustaining and can just plant and may never need to really worry about ph again.
 
I’m the oddball here with this.

I would use plot start spray this year to get a quick ph boost for better crops now. Plant green and heavy cover crop, soil boosting crops. Every time you plant out out 5 or so bags of pellet lime for the next few cycles. Then it will be self sustaining and can just plant and may never need to really worry about ph again.
"Liquid calcium products are a mainstay in the vast marketplace of less-than-reputable soil fertility amendments"
 
Irish56, how many acres do you have? Some places will spread for a reasonable fee. Likely not this time of year, too muddy most places.

Some AG co-ops rent tow behind spreaders. MY local one does. They got something similar to this.


I got one of these, it can be filled with 3-4 bags of AG lime. I got it used and with some parts was about $300. Spreads quickly. I tried spreading rye with it, heard some crackling noise from seed getting broken. Likely won't do rye in it again. Wheat is noticeably smaller and might be ok though. I will try that out. Good for fertilizer, or fertilizer or lime mixed with small seed.

 
"Liquid calcium products are a mainstay in the vast marketplace of less-than-reputable soil fertility amendments"
Yeah. This has been debated 147 times on here. Not near as simple as just posting an article against it.
 
Short answer is you want to get crops growing that do well in your soil. That develop health microbe communities that break down minerals for plants to use.

If you are a farmer, planting for cash, your goal is to create a perfect environment to make the most money per acre. It requires constant amendments to do this. That is not what most of us here are doing.

Using liquid calcium to get a quick pH change, which all the articles report it does, to jumpstart, crop growth to set up a self sustaining system is probably the best thing that food plotters can do. The idea that you can bring in tons of lime every 2 to 3 years to keep a perfect pH for a food plot is a fool‘s errand in my opinion.

Also, many large, scale, operations, organic, farmers, regenerative ag people are using liquid, lime and liquid fertilizer in smaller amounts directly where the plants need them instead of amending the whole soil.
 
Like him or hate him, this guy makes his living with food plots. This is what he says about it.

 
Like him or hate him, this guy makes his living with food plots. This is what he says about it.

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I figured it was not as simple as I was making it and you guys did not disappoint and I really appreciate the input. I am only jumping in with a few small plots …. Total of 1 1/2 acres. Planning more for the future.

I am leaning towards reducing the amount and spreading it out over the next year or two. Makes a lot of sense.

Thanks again.

DAN


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I never get tired talking about lime. It’s a system. If this were our last season, availability might be a valid concern. I like bigger particles of limestone for years 2-30 after application. If you’ve got active biology in your soil, no limestone particle is too big to be useful.


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Like him or hate him, this guy makes his living with food plots. This is what he says about it.

"I don't understand the process/chemistry of it, but it does work" 😆 via a paid endorser.

It's not useless, per the SCIENTISTS, but isn't a true substitute for lime.
 
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