Burdock in clover

[Carbonspyder]

Has anyone ever had trouble with Burdock in plots? I have a pretty bad case of it in a second year clover plot and am considering spraying everything, tilling, and starting over but I'm worried it will come back.

Ive been told there's no herbicide for it if mixed with clover because they're both broadleafs. I dug a few up and weed whacked more but they come back pretty quick.

Any ideas for either removing them or ideas for what to replant with that I could spray when it comes back? I read a prior thread here that talked about adding some gypsum but I think ill need to get a little more serious than that.

 

[marlin]

2-4DB will kill broadleafs in clover. Butyrac 200. Keystone pest solutions has this product.

 

[T-Max]

Have you tried lime and/or gypsum? SD can probably screenshot the page in his weed book.


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[Bill]

I

2-4DB will kill broadleafs in clover. Butyrac 200. Keystone pest solutions has this product.

Yep Butyrac will take care of it. Several herbicides are safe on clover. Butyrac for broad leaf, Clethodin for grasses and Imox for both.

 

[GoldenTriangleIL]

Spot spray the Burdock with gly or mow. Easy to eradicate.

 

[SD51555]

High dose calcium can do it, but you have to have good soil tests and really know what you’re doing. There can be too much of a good thing. I have beaten it with gypsum where I had it.

You can beat it with chems, but the harsh chems that can beat super weeds often make it so that you also have very few options left of what can grow after.

All weeds are a problem of conditions. The four biggest problems are:

Recurrent death - always spraying or tilling keeps the soil starting over at zero and that brings the death weeds (burdock, thistle, pigweed etc).

Lack of oxygen - could be drainage, or compaction. Even if you don’t drive heavy equipment over it or work it up, death burns up soil structure and it all collapses on itself. This brings the compaction weeds (burdock, thistle, pigweed, horsetail, dandelion).

Mineral imbalance - this is the calcium issue. Put on all the fertilizer you want, conditions never change. There’s literal tons of P and K on every acre. What we put on is quickly locked and added to the “bound” state that is never counted on a soil test.

Nutrient uptake - biological processes facilitate the uptake of nutrients. Anything less or put and take oriented is akin to a feeding tube on a coma patient. When you get into the second year and longer of an unbroken stay-green plot, the brix content of your plants skyrocket and they will be significantly more attractive to deer. This is the power behind mineral stumps. The soils around them have been unbroken forever.


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[Carbonspyder]

This plot was a pastured part of the woods years ago so compaction could be a problem. I have only applied amendments as the soil test called for it, never tried extra gypsum, is this just spot applied to spots of heavy burdock or over the whole plot?
Thanks for the chemical suggestions, I might try them and work on finding the root cause of this.

 

[SD51555]

This plot was a pastured part of the woods years ago so compaction could be a problem. I have only applied amendments as the soil test called for it, never tried extra gypsum, is this just spot applied to spots of heavy burdock or over the whole plot?
Thanks for the chemical suggestions, I might try them and work on finding the root cause of this.

If you post up your soil test, I could help you come up with some numbers. Also, how big of a plot are we talking? Size could make this expensive and labor intensive.

 

[Carbonspyder]

Here's the test for the plot, its slightly under a quarter acre so it won't too expensive to mess around with it.

 

[SD51555]

Ok, here we go. I'm going to assume you haven't limed. If you have, I'd need to know what kind of lime you put on and new numbers.

Your calcium to magnesium ratio is: 616 / 84 = 7.3

To knock out burdock, I'd go right to 10. So we've got to do two things, get your pH up, and get your calcium up without overshooting it. You've got light soil, and I like light soil because of things like this. If we went with a nearly all-calcium lime, you'd want to get to 840 ppm calcium. To get there, you need to add 224 ppm, or 448 lbs of calcium. A high calcium lime is 32% calcium or more. Some varieties can get even higher.

448 / 32% = 1400 lbs/ac (we still need to chop that down into a quarter acre recommendation). That works out pretty good, because that is just what you need to get your pH up from 5.2 to something in the 6's. I aim for 6.2 or 6.3. That's the perfect zone for optimum nutrient uptake of everything. As you go higher, you start losing micros.

You have a really high buffer pH, so we could probably dial the lime down just a hair (because high buffer pH soil moves pH very easily) and sub in a couple bags of gyspum instead. So, 1400 lbs/ac of lime on a quarter acre would be 350 lbs of calcitic lime. I'd start with 250 lbs of calcitic lime and 100 pounds of gypsum if you can find it. Then give it 12 months and see how the crops respond.

 

[Carbonspyder]

Ok, here we go. I'm going to assume you haven't limed. If you have, I'd need to know what kind of lime you put on and new numbers.

Your calcium to magnesium ratio is: 616 / 84 = 7.3

To knock out burdock, I'd go right to 10. So we've got to do two things, get your pH up, and get your calcium up without overshooting it. You've got light soil, and I like light soil because of things like this. If we went with a nearly all-calcium lime, you'd want to get to 840 ppm calcium. To get there, you need to add 224 ppm, or 448 lbs of calcium. A high calcium lime is 32% calcium or more. Some varieties can get even higher.

448 / 32% = 1400 lbs/ac (we still need to chop that down into a quarter acre recommendation). That works out pretty good, because that is just what you need to get your pH up from 5.2 to something in the 6's. I aim for 6.2 or 6.3. That's the perfect zone for optimum nutrient uptake of everything. As you go higher, you start losing micros.

You have a really high buffer pH, so we could probably dial the lime down just a hair (because high buffer pH soil moves pH very easily) and sub in a couple bags of gyspum instead. So, 1400 lbs/ac of lime on a quarter acre would be 350 lbs of calcitic lime. I'd start with 250 lbs of calcitic lime and 100 pounds of gypsum if you can find it. Then give it 12 months and see how the crops respond.

View attachment 79208

Thank you very much for the help, it's incredibly insightful. I'll try some more lime and add a little gypsum and see how things go, meanwhile I will keep up with whacking the burdock when it gets larger.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Ok, here we go. I'm going to assume you haven't limed. If you have, I'd need to know what kind of lime you put on and new numbers.

Your calcium to magnesium ratio is: 616 / 84 = 7.3

To knock out burdock, I'd go right to 10. So we've got to do two things, get your pH up, and get your calcium up without overshooting it. You've got light soil, and I like light soil because of things like this. If we went with a nearly all-calcium lime, you'd want to get to 840 ppm calcium. To get there, you need to add 224 ppm, or 448 lbs of calcium. A high calcium lime is 32% calcium or more. Some varieties can get even higher.

448 / 32% = 1400 lbs/ac (we still need to chop that down into a quarter acre recommendation). That works out pretty good, because that is just what you need to get your pH up from 5.2 to something in the 6's. I aim for 6.2 or 6.3. That's the perfect zone for optimum nutrient uptake of everything. As you go higher, you start losing micros.

You have a really high buffer pH, so we could probably dial the lime down just a hair (because high buffer pH soil moves pH very easily) and sub in a couple bags of gyspum instead. So, 1400 lbs/ac of lime on a quarter acre would be 350 lbs of calcitic lime. I'd start with 250 lbs of calcitic lime and 100 pounds of gypsum if you can find it. Then give it 12 months and see how the crops respond.

View attachment 79208

Thanks, SD. Your breakdowns are very informative & helpful.

 

[Brian662]

After soil amendments are completed if you still have burdock, I've had success spraying 2 qt/acre of 2-4DB or butyrac as others have stated and it curls up the burdock good. You'll have to spray a few times a year or you can mow to eliminate a spraying.