BLB land tour topic; what we have to work with, and what to do going forward

[Freeborn]

Nice looking poperty. Sounds like you have planted allot of trees and in time you will see benefits from that. I am scratching my head on why you have no deer? Your habitat should be holding some deer. In the short run I would put allot of effort at increasing your doe bedding areas. Do you have problems with yotes or bobcat?

Your right, the brome grass provides no cover. If It was day one and you had not planted trees I would have rented (even for free) all of that Brome grass area to a local farmer to plant soybeans for a couple years and let the farmer clean the ground of everything. I would then plant NWSG in those areas except where you want to plant trees and in those areas I would plant Timothy. Timothy is a cool season grass that goes dormant in summer and therefore does not compete with the trees for moisture. If you still have large areas that are brome without trees you could rotate your soybean plots to these areas and then plant NWSG.

Each of us have long term improvements and short term improvements, I would put allot of effort on short term improvements like hing cutting and adding a ton of browse like American Plum, Crab apples and Black Chokeberry.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Beautiful looking place, looks too pretty to hold deer. I would hinge the piss out of those scrubby oaks you can see right through for starters. Save the better ones for mast. Planting willows and spruce by the lake or any other wet spot would be the next project for me. Cover cover and more cover!

I would have one maybe to larger spots for food and that would be it, get the deer trained coming to one spot for later in the fall. Good luck, it looks like a great spot!

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

I would never suggest kicking anyone out. Family and friends is what makes everything fun (at least it is to me).

I would suggest either not bow hunting until after gun season. Leaving the entire property as basically a sanctuary (not very ideal). Otherwise I would create a large sanctuary and only hunt the edges of the property during bow season. Try to make sure your wind is blowing onto neighbors if at all possible. Then during gun season, have at it and hopefully you have some opportunities.

 

[biglakeba$$]

I would put allot of effort on short term improvements like hing cutting and adding a ton of browse like American Plum, Crab apples and Black Chokeberry.

One step ahead of ya. :)
I have put in a few hundred plums and crabapple the past 2 springs and they are all tubed. I have small groups all over the property. We have hinged the past 2 springs, with the main target being box elder. There isnt much left standing upright, but what remains will be down this spring.

I would hinge the piss out of those scrubby oaks you can see right through for starters

That is part of this springs plan as well. The forester suggested that as well this summer after doing our updated stewardship plan.

Are you planting pines or spruce?

Most has been a mix of red pine, white spruce and black spruce.

I would have rented (even for free) all of that Brome grass area to a local farmer to plant soybeans for a couple years and let the farmer clean the ground of everything

You might think different if you knew the condition of that ground.... ROCKS! A lot of the area planted in trees was pasture forever and never tilled. There is a boulder the size of a small bus sticking out of the ground out in that mess.
We had to offer that 6 acre parcel thats now alfalfa by the highway to a farmer for free to plant crops. It was absolutely overrun with thistles and we had enough of a battle fighting them all over the property. Dad didnt want to deal with all of it and had the idea to get someone in there to till it up and farm it for a few years(its now been about 8 years and I would like to take it back for more tree plantings, but thats another story). I am not totally against it. Its a nice additive to the food plots for sure.

I would be planting spruce and some willow cuttings to try and make your land appear bigger to a deer.

Did someone say willow cuttings? Been there, done that.
Success was very limited. Me and trees just dont seem to jive. :)

 

[sandbur]

Is it just my computer or what? I cannot open the last two pictures from B LB. Just an X in a box.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Is it just my computer or what? I cannot open the last two pictures from B LB. Just an X in a box.

Your computer or the guy running it!;)

 

[biglakeba$$]

My favorite spot on the whole place.
Very SE corner of the property. And going east of here, the hills get taller and steeper. Due east of this spot about 2 miles is an elevation of almost 1800 ft, which is one of the highest points in MN behind a handful of spots on the northshore. If anyone has heard of Inspiration Peak, thats a few mile south as well. Another stunning place for viewing the surrounding landscape.

Looking due west. The grasses you see in the foreground are native grasses that have never been disturbed. Well, I disturbed them with a prescribed burn. Absolutely beautiful spot with all the wild flowers and forbes. USFWS guy visited the spot a few times over a summer and took pictures and documented for us all the different species he found. I dont know what I did with the info, but the numbers of unique plants was shocking to say the least.


Looking due south. Inspiration Peak is those high points you can see on the horizon.

 

[bwoods11]

Such a nice farm. I do believe a big part of your issue with deer is the way our seasons are set up.

25 days of gun hunting.....unless they find swamp or nasty bedding they are so vulnerable.

 

[biglakeba$$]

I may be on crack, but I think a very large problem is this..... this is all the properties around us. All but 1 that I know of have gun hunters on them. Start adding up those numbers on rifle opener and where can deer hide? Very efficient method of population control(or slaughter). We are property 3.
Property 2 had 7 hunters this year.
Property 11 had 8 hunters this year.
Property 13 had 6 hunters this year.
Property 6 is the only one that I am aware of that does not ever have any deer hunting on it of any kind.
The property on the north side of number 2, last year they had 9 people. That land does go North and east a little more, but 9 guns on what is mostly wide open land. Ouch.

 

[biglakeba$$]

I think my biggest take away so far is changing up our "refuge" area. Very easy change.
Secondly, how we hunt it. This one I need to put some thought into. How do I(we) enjoy it, without doing too much collateral damage.
Thirdly, what to do in 2015. More hinging for certain. I have 6 acres enrolled in WHIP for buckthorn removal(again). Plots, I like the idea MO had to go with one large plot, but in the same breath I want to maximize the acres of food for long term feeding. Not just enough food for deer season.
Lastly, try and spark up co op discussions. I have an email out to a couple guys asking if they want to meet up this winter.... I didnt preface anything about co op, but more a general "Hey, nice talking with you again this fall on the road. Wondering if you wanted to meet for a beer this winter and talk deer hunting" :)

 

[Greta&Gus]

Your property is completely different from mine but I still think you have too much corn and beans and not enough greens. Small corn plots like that are perfect for nighttime visits and that is about it. I would do all rye/clover/brassica with corn only used as a screen and not the food source. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[Freeborn]

QUOTE="biglakeba$$, post: 33196, member: 65"]I may be on crack, but I think a very large problem is this..... this is all the properties around us. All but 1 that I know of have gun hunters on them. Start adding up those numbers on rifle opener and where can deer hide? Very efficient method of population control(or slaughter). We are property 3.
Property 2 had 7 hunters this year.
Property 11 had 8 hunters this year.
Property 13 had 6 hunters this year.
Property 6 is the only one that I am aware of that does not ever have any deer hunting on it of any kind.
The property on the north side of number 2, last year they had 9 people. That land does go North and east a little more, but 9 guns on what is mostly wide open land. Ouch.
[/QUOTE]
I Can't remember where I read this but somewhere I had seen that the minimum number of acres of deer habitat per hunter for quality hunting is 50 acres. That would mean 2 hunters on 100 acres etc. This might seem to large but 50 acres is not that much land to have hunters entering and exiting. There are 2 hunters on my 105 acres and I do think if we are disciplined we can hunt deer without disturbing them.

What you are showing is a big worry of mine as I see farmers selling there wooded lands to hunters and segmenting the land into small parcels. Add to this that many hunters have no clue how many deer can be held on a property and you end up with 4+ hunters on every 40 acres.

 

[biglakeba$$]

Curious what the greens will do to gain an advantage?
I have all 3 of them in the ground now(albeit limited on the rye and brassica). Clover definitely I dont want to do more of.
Rye and brassica, I think I could incorporate more.

Why would my 3 acre corn plot only promote night visits versus if I had an 80 acre field of corn?

I have a stigma giving up on corn and beans. I get all the seed for free, so thats a nice deal. :)

One concern I have with going to only greens for food is they are not easily accessible under 2 ft of snow either.

My ears are open to reasons to do plots differently. Whether it means planting different stuff, or changing up how they are done.

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

The pressure around you is a two edge sword. It is a negative because if deer go onto their property there is a good chance of them getting shot. However it is a positive because they are going to burn up those properties very quickly and the deer have to go somewhere. If you have a big chunk of sanctuary, as the deer learn of the are over the years, they will be heading to your land before sunrise of opening morning. Pick a sanctuary, make it thick cover to hold as many deer as possible and hunt around it. Part of the problem may be the deer view the other properties as a "sanctuary" during bow season because no one else is in the woods.

 

[sandbur]

I would not give up corn on my land. Brassica is barely touched and rye gets slightly more use.

Corn next to cover is as close to a sure thing for a buck as you can get in my country.

 

[Greta&Gus]

Deer won't bed in 3 acres of corn but will I 80. In my experience they don't access small corn plots during the day. Clover and alfalfa will die out in October but deer will dig through snow for rye and brassica. For me, rye and brassica will get daytime usage by deer in November but corn and beans do not. Also, if you have large as fields in your surrounding area what are you offering that is different? If you still plant corn and beans I would at least overseed them with brassicas. I am strongly pushing my family away from corn because our daytime deer sightings have drastically decreased since we started planting it. Not the only reason, but when the neighbors have 40 acres of standing corn how does 3 acres compete with that?

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

One more thing as far as improvements go. You have a lot of separate food plots which kind of reminds me of Dougherty's book. However, I prefer to really define the movement by to designating a destination plot that is large in size (can be on someone else's property), then back off a bit for some secluded kill plots with a staging area or corridor in between, then a travel corridor from kill plot to bedding area. I like knowing the deer are going to be going here to there to there. I know that is an oversimplification. You have years of knowledge of the property to give you an idea of whats going on and I would focus on defining movement from A to B.

 

[bat man]

At the Ottertail latitude, I think it is possible to plant small parts of plots dedicated to early season archery hunting. Natural forbs, acorns and ag provide so much food in the archery season the danger of the deer decimating an 1/4 or 1/2 acre of pre frost greens (soybeans, sunflowers ww) may be minimal. Dedicating small portions of bigger plots to greens in areas with good access can get them archery close.

Later season when the deer feed in plots that need more acreage (beans, corn, brassica) you can revisit your stand strategy locations to hunt the larger plots.

 

[biglakeba$$]

but when the neighbors have 40 acres of standing corn how does 3 acres compete with that?

We are not in the midst of large ag country. If you go 4 miles west, it opens up into vast wide open terrain with vast majority being ag land.
We dont have a neighbor with 40 acres of corn. In fact the closest crops to our south is 1.5+ miles. Closest crops to the west is 2+ miles. Closest crops to the north would be just under 1/2 mile, but we have that large slough between us and that property. Closest crops to the east would be 2+ miles as well.
There is a LOT of pasturing in this area. Crops adjoining us or even close to us are non-existent. We dont have that competition going on for sure.
When you look at the aerial photos on page 1 and see larger open areas, it is mostly cattle pasturing. Not crop production.

Very good stuff. It does a lot to open up different thoughts, where I have been locked into a mode for years for reasons unknown.:)

 

[sandbur]

QUOTE="biglakeba$$, post: 33196, member: 65"]I may be on crack, but I think a very large problem is this..... this is all the properties around us. All but 1 that I know of have gun hunters on them. Start adding up those numbers on rifle opener and where can deer hide? Very efficient method of population control(or slaughter). We are property 3.
Property 2 had 7 hunters this year.
Property 11 had 8 hunters this year.
Property 13 had 6 hunters this year.
Property 6 is the only one that I am aware of that does

Deer won't bed in 3 acres of corn but will I 80. In my experience they don't access small corn plots during the day. Clover and alfalfa will die out in October but deer will dig through snow for rye and brassica. For me, rye and brassica will get daytime usage by deer in November but corn and beans do not. Also, if you have large as fields in your surrounding area what are you offering that is different? If you still plant corn and beans I would at least overseed them with brassicas. I am strongly pushing my family away from corn because our daytime deer sightings have drastically decreased since we started planting it. Not the only reason, but when the neighbors have 40 acres of standing corn how does 3 acres compete with that?

These critters are driving us nuts. Maybe like Steve says, we are making it to complicated.

This year, my neighbors have over 160 acres of standing corn that is 1/2 mile west. !/4 mile to the SE is about 20 acres of standing corn.

Deer do not bed in my two corn plots, but they did come to them right before dark and in a few instances earlier in the day with the cold weather. A little finger of corn tucked back into the woods attracted the most attention before dark. BLB-maybe you remember the spot by my house. Not lots of deer, but about the only deer we saw. and there are also a few crab apple trees back there in both locattions.

The deer sure have different preferences over their range!