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BLB land tour topic; what we have to work with, and what to do going forward

Do nothing and nothing changes. Keep doing the same thing as you have in past years and you should just anticipate the same results.

Do something, or everything, different. Even if it is just for one year. If you don't shoot a buck what is the difference from right now? Like Stu said, only hunt the edges.

I know currently you are not using your sanctuaries to access your stands but look at how all of the access points are right through the middle of your property. Just try something different and see if it works.
 
biglakeba$$ said:
Main parking is 2 spots. Lines are current routes to stands.



I wouldnt want to access stands from the NW property simply because it is 100% sanctuary, and accessing from that end would potentially upset that. Is it better to upset that, than our land? Possibly. It would be tough to do, as the guys that lease it might take up issue with that.
Zero access from the east property. He is a different bird.... I had a trail camera on the fenceline a few years ago and he somehow found it and covered the lens in mud. There is ZERO hunting of any kind on that property. So not sure what his big beef is, but he is very controlling.
Access from NE corner I have never thought about, but the guy that owns that lives there and has dogs... guessing he doesnt want his dogs barking up a storm before sunrise when I would pull in. Just one of those things that I dont want to ask about that.
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Is a NW wind blowing your scent right into the sanctuary when you se the south access?
 
biglakeba$$ said:
The one part that we know is an issue, we use the land. My neighbors do not use their land. Only activity is the cattle pasturing.

I have said and thought it many times, what is the purpose in owning land if you cant enjoy it?
Our presence is part of the problem. As was mentioned on page 1, maybe we dont gun hunt it and see what happens.

Big mental battle goes on in my head when I have spent so many hours on so many things to augment what we had/have. And then to go to the extent of not hunting the property in order to make it better is very tough to come to terms with.

Maybe it is what it is, and we just need to accept what we have. Make a few small changes with the suggestions so far, and make some small potential gains.
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How often do you actually hunt? I agree it's tough invest time, money, and effort into land and not enjoy it. I find surgical strikes during prime weather periods is key and also find Jeff Murrays Moon Guide to have some merit in the early and late season. I know a lot of guys poo poo the moon stuff and I do too during the rut but my cameras show a bit more daylight movement during prime moon days.....especially the older bucks.
 
We use our land for various activities through the summer too. I have a rifle range and we shoot at times. The deer seem to move into the timber to the west on part of our land.....and I leave them alone there. Sorta a sanctuary / travel corridor for them. The deer seem to tolerate our activities and are photo'd shortly after our use. But....by September and October....we really cut down on the activity....then its mostly tractor work. We have not grouse hunted or done much walking our land in the fall....prior to deer hunting.

During hunting season, we keep to a trail on the downwind side to access our stands via a golf cart (thus keeping scent down across the property). Not sure how much you want to limit the activities BLB......but less activity and limited trail use may help the deer pop.
 
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How about the minimum maintenance road, is it elevated so drivers can see into your property or is it impossible to see into the property from that road? Could you plant screens on each side of the road to provide a barrier to your property?

The NE corner that is mostly brome appears wide open and if that is the case provides little deer value. I have open AG fields that I have planted in NWSG and then planted rows of crabapple and American Plum creating a line of movement in an open area to connect woods and create ambush areas. Some of my rows are 1500’ long and include 3 rows of trees. I shot this years buck on the NW end of my property following one of my rows of crabs exactly as I scripted. The length of rows in 5-7’ prairie grass provide enough cover to get deer to travel between bedding areas, food and expose themselves in my ambush areas. I saw my bucks head about 150 yards away and that’s from an elevated stand, NWSG and edge provide good cover to the deer. If you planted NWSG with some willow areas near your food plots you will get deer to bed near your food plot.

One thing I have found in any open area is you need to add vertical structure so deer will move place to place. I have some areas on my fields that are wet in spring and dry during summer, these areas are small (50-60’ square) and I will be planting them into a high stem count willow barrier. All wildlife love these spots in my prairie grass.
 
How often do you actually hunt?
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Hate to say it, but there are very few weekends someone isnt there from archery opener through end of gun season. Maybe 2 to 3 weekends a fall we are not there.

How about the minimum maintenance road, is it elevated so drivers can see into your property or is it impossible to see into the property from that road? Could you plant screens on each side of the road to provide a barrier to your property?
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easy viewing in several spots along the road looking up into the woods. Granted you cant see far in due to the hills and how thick the cover is, but it is visible.
Planting anything in there would be hopeless with the canopy above I am afraid. We have planted pines as long as around 10 years ago in a semi opening in the woods and they havent grown a foot in all those years, and amazingly several are still alive.
Part of our new stewardship plan is to clear cut 2 or 3 spots around 5 acres in size to get better age diversity with the oaks, and we are considering that along the road so when it grows back its a mega tangled mess of cover.
 
The NE corner that is mostly brome appears wide open and if that is the case provides little deer value.
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Not sure what part of the NE you are referring to. On our land the very NE is all cattails. If you are referring the the NE part that is our neighbors field, that is all NWSG in that entire field.

One thing I have found in any open area is you need to add vertical structure so deer will move place to place.
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We have several thousand pines in the ground for that reason and just to create general cover.

I have open AG fields that I have planted in NWSG and then planted rows of crabapple and American Plum creating a line of movement in an open area to connect woods and create ambush areas
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We have focused the vast majority of effort to fill open areas with trees. I planted 3 acres of NWSG 3 years ago, and I have 4 rows of pines in the ground along the northern side of it to create a connection point between cover.

If you planted NWSG with some willow areas near your food plots you will get deer to bed near your food plot.
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Kind of same answer as the quote above, our acres are locked up in tree plantings.
 
Oh boy...I think you may have just answered a big part of the question right there
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Agreed, but I see you posting that you are on stand an awful lot as well. Where is the happy medium?
I dont think that I am alone in the fact we spend a lot of time on stand. Do we do everything perfectly? Not a chance in hell, but are we making grave mistakes every time we hunt? I surely dont think so.

We implemented the sanctuary idea 3 years ago in hopes it would change things. My hunting buddy had to beat me to get me convinced, but we needed a change.
My biggest fear of doing the sanctuary was one thing.............. We are now limiting the acres available to hunt. Thus putting more of our presence into a smaller area.

So whats better? Sanctuary or keeping deer on their toes by having many more acres open to pick the best stand for the days conditions?

Quite the puzzle I must say. :)
 
Lets just remember, we arent even worried about mature bucks any more. 2.5 we are struggling with. And deer in general. Ideally mature is a huge win.

That said, the numbers in the area are surely very depressed in the past half dozen years. So its a multitude of factors leading to the frustration.
 
I would bet there are mature bucks, you just have not seen them or got a picture yet. You just need to figure out the key to increase your chances of putting them in the right place at the right time.
 
Oh I know there are some around. Neighbors on east and west sides let the air out of 2 that I had on camera.

Mature bucks are not the only thing we are after. Seeing deer is a good thing in general.

I should have clarified a little too; when I say there is someone hunting most weekends, some of those I am up there by myself. So its not as if we have 4 guys heading off in all directions every weekend. Its mainly just myself and my buddy. My son only got up there with me 2 weekends during archery season this year.

I was alone more weekends than I had someone hunting with me this year.
 
You can identify stands to hunt every day with the right wind that won't educate deer, but they take work. When you bump deer going in or out, or they come by hours later and catch residual scent is when you educate them and they leave or move at night.

Your place can hold deer for sure. If you hunt a lot the stands must be low impact, or you drive deer nocturnal or off the property to lower pressure parcels.
 
biglakeba$$ said:
Agreed, but I see you posting that you are on stand an awful lot as well. Where is the happy medium?
I dont think that I am alone in the fact we spend a lot of time on stand. Do we do everything perfectly? Not a chance in hell, but are we making grave mistakes every time we hunt? I surely dont think so.

We implemented the sanctuary idea 3 years ago in hopes it would change things. My hunting buddy had to beat me to get me convinced, but we needed a change.
My biggest fear of doing the sanctuary was one thing.............. We are now limiting the acres available to hunt. Thus putting more of our presence into a smaller area.

So whats better? Sanctuary or keeping deer on their toes by having many more acres open to pick the best stand for the days conditions?

Quite the puzzle I must say. :)
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I thought the same way for 15 years. That it wasn't hunted perfect, but not bad either. I was wrong. I had 4 or 5 stands on 120 acres and thought access was good enough and pressure was light.. In actuality I was hunting almost 80% of the property with those 5 stands and results were young bucks and does. I now hunt only the edges. This has not reduced the area to hunt though. I now have 12 stands and could easily put up 3 more for every wind direction and figure I am now only hunting about 10 % of the property. Low impact access and hunting is the ticket I'm convinced.
 
How many guys do you have hunting at once. Its hard to have more than a couple stands that are low impact for each wind.

I would look at what activities you want to do and what areas you need to access. It doesn't help to have to go next to your sanctuary or in it to grouse hunt, get to the duck blind, etc. Then I would look at what areas you do not have to access and consider them for a sanctuary. I like one big block for a sanctuary instead of a piece here and a piece there. A good place to start might be the SE 40 but that is a complete guess. Once the conifers start coming in, I would either use them for sanctuary or use them as a main area to hunt.
 
Average is 2 people bowhunting. Sometimes less, sometimes 1 or 2 more, but that is very rare.
My buddy and I do 90% of the bowhunting and if our sons are able to join us, they are the other ones.

Sanctuaries get no access except for my one trip through with the trail mower in summer, then during gun season my Dad has a rifle stand in the SE 40. We have one other rifle stand in the SE 40 as well, but might get a sit or two.
Gun season we do have 5 people, and I know, I know.... Its too many. As I have said in the past, I cant kick my Dad out, I cant kick my son out, and my buddy and his son help with the fieldwork, tree plantings, habitat work, etc.... So I feel they deserve a place to hunt.

Enlightening topic for sure. The more feedback I am reading, maybe our largest obstacle is just simply "us".....
I have thought long and hard about "us" and the factors of it, but I have also convinced myself if we make things better, we have to at least have some dumb luck sooner or later at the very least.
The question becomes, "when is enough, too much?"

I would love to kick everyone off and keep it to myself, but that option probably isnt out there. :)
 
Some views from the ground to give a little more of the meat to the story.
This is a rifle stand on our furthest NE location.
Looking due north. In the narrow strip at the bottom is clover and turnips mixed.


Looking west. Thats one of my corn plots that is around 2.5 acres.


Looking east. The field in view is on the neighbors and is all NWSG. VERY tall stuff. We have seen deer come out of the woods into it and just disappear in it.... Thats before the snows fly.


Looking south. There is another stand in view. Between these 2 stands has all been planted in conifers. We planted some 3 years ago and had failure, and this spring planted several hundred more seedlings to fill gaps.
 
This is a ladder stand mainly used for archery. Located on the south field edge of our NE 40.

Looking NW


Looking NE


Looking SW


Looking SE
 
Here is a view from the tar hiway on the west side, looking due east. My corn plot on the left mainly for deer travel corridor. There are a few rows of pines planted on the left side of what you see in this picture for a permanent runway. Field in main view is alfalfa.


This is part of our CRP area. Standing between the old farmhouse and Hiway looking to the SW. This area is part of where we have planted several thousand pines over the last 5+ years. Slowly taking hold.


A closer look where you can see live trees in the same view.


Standing on the dirt road bordering the south property line, looking a little NE towards the old farmstead. Again, all CRP with oodles of trees laying hidden in the grasses.
 
Looking NW from the dirt road before it Y's and heads up through our SE 40.


Standing next to the farmhouse looking west at the hiway.


Standing by farmhouse looking SW


Standing by farmhouse looking NW


Standing by farmhouse looking SW again


And an ash tree that we had planted in the CRP 6 years ago...... I put the tube on it this spring and it was less than 3 ft tall, and it grew this much in one summer with the tree tube. I need hundreds more tubes to put on trees in this CRP area....
 
BLB- I have 170 acres with about 75 of it being rental ag land. Our best mature buck hunting occurred when I did not walk on any of the land from Aug. 1 until opening morning of rifle season. It was tough to live here and be limited only to my yard for 3 months. No rye was planted. No Aug. cutting of clover plots. No gopher trapping around my apple trees and no game cameras. And a lot better deer populations.

Are you planting pines or spruce? I would stop planting pines, except for a few areas of jack pine where I wanted some quick cover.

What I see is the open appearance of your habitat. After leaf fall, you can see long distances. I would be filling the edges of the hardwoods with spruce planted 6 feet apart. Those brushy strips on the NE 40 would have some scattered or clumps of spruce in them. I have a few ash planted around my place, but they do little for the deer and the emerald ash borer will eventually get them, unless we keep very cold winters.

I would be planting spruce and some willow cuttings to try and make your land appear bigger to a deer.
 
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