There are plenty of high fences here in Texas. If that is what you are referring to. And that is a completely ugly argument with HF and LF people. I have a simple 5 strand barbed wire fence which I do not repair when broken. But if I ever win the big one then depending on neighbors I will probably have a high fence wrapped around my 10000 acre ranch. Will I charge people to come look and see? Heck no It is not a zoo.
Bait vs Food plots
- Thread starter 4wanderingeyes
- Start date
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
This is an argument that will never be seen eye to eye on. I'm going with, "it depends".
You describe a very specific situation. In that specific situation of growing a cool season plot then replanting with a warm season plot vs a bunch of people each throwing out a single bag of corn, then yes, those are very different.
You describe a very specific situation. In that specific situation of growing a cool season plot then replanting with a warm season plot vs a bunch of people each throwing out a single bag of corn, then yes, those are very different.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
I will disagree with some of that.
I run feeders year round and they benefit ALL kinds of wildlife... year round. I hardly ever even hunt over mine but have no problem doing so, I also put out food plots and plant everything I can to attract and feed deer and everything else from bugs to deer. Unlike a lot of folks I am not just doing habitat projects to better the deer hunting on our property, originally I was but it morphed into ALL wildlife years ago. I have found that I get just as much enjoyment out of planting stuff and seeing different wildflowers, birds and bugs anymore as I do hunting deer/turkey/pheasant/bunnies.
If I put corn in a feeder or plant anything to attract or hold wildlife it sure seems like it's still baiting to me, I do it to feed wildlife?
Baiting during season is legal in my state - even in the CWD zone. Supplemental feeding within the cwd zone during the off season is not. Our G&F considers baiting a management tool - in that it helps them achieve their harvest goal so we dont have large areas with 50/60 deer per square mile. We have many deer leases in timber company land that might be 1000 acres of five to 15 yr old plantation where you cant see five feet in front of you when not on a road or trail. Clearing trees is not permitted. The only way to control deer numbers on these areas is a bag of corn or a pack of hounds. And no, neither on is wildlife management, outside of controlling numbers - or in the case of baiting - selective harvest.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
I have no dog in this hunt but find the conversation interesting, being in a state that doesn't allow baiting and considers kicking apples under an apple tree to form a pile is considered baiting. NY sucks like that, but I have always lived/hunted by these rules so to me baiting seems like cheating, not because it is cheating, it's just because it is all I have been taught. I do know of people using corn here illegally and there must be a good enough reason to break the law to improve their chances (I guess?).
I do see the argument but I don't think feeding deer corn, even during the summer, is feeding to improve the herd. Deer have a plethora of food sources at that time and corn isn't very nutritious as a standalone food source. I should add that even if I had massive food plots I would still want to use corn as an attractant if it was legal, it certainly is a draw to a specific spot as much as having the only pear tree or late dropping apple for miles next to your treestand. I certainly don't criticize people for baiting with corn if it is legal, use every tool in the toolbox they let you use.
I do see the argument but I don't think feeding deer corn, even during the summer, is feeding to improve the herd. Deer have a plethora of food sources at that time and corn isn't very nutritious as a standalone food source. I should add that even if I had massive food plots I would still want to use corn as an attractant if it was legal, it certainly is a draw to a specific spot as much as having the only pear tree or late dropping apple for miles next to your treestand. I certainly don't criticize people for baiting with corn if it is legal, use every tool in the toolbox they let you use.
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4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
What brought on this post was, I have food plots out year around, about 30 apple trees for wildlife, I try to manage, and open up oak trees to maximize acorn production, and I have many producing oaks on my property. For the majority of the year, I get lots of deer pictures every day, that is until about a week before the season starts, then there isnt a deer picture for weeks. Now baiting is not allowed in my county, so it is illegal here. If you take a stroll through the state land about a quarter mile away as the crow flies, there several piles of corn out.
Now because I am abiding by the law, I am in a disadvantage. Those that go out and buy a bag or two of corn and "BAIT" have the advantage over someone that spends many hours, and hundreds, or thousands of dollars abiding by the law. To me it isnt just about the law, but ethics. I feed the deer 12 months a year, they benefit from my plots. The deer do not benefit from that pile of corn sitting in front of someones deer stand. The only one to benefit from that pile of corn is the hunter.
Now because I am abiding by the law, I am in a disadvantage. Those that go out and buy a bag or two of corn and "BAIT" have the advantage over someone that spends many hours, and hundreds, or thousands of dollars abiding by the law. To me it isnt just about the law, but ethics. I feed the deer 12 months a year, they benefit from my plots. The deer do not benefit from that pile of corn sitting in front of someones deer stand. The only one to benefit from that pile of corn is the hunter.
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Then you're talking supplemental feeding, not baiting. Two different things IMO..
PatinPA
5 year old buck +
Haha we have the same stupid baiting rules here. You can hunt over an apple tree but you dare not kick an apple over towards your stand. You can hunt oaks but don't rake the acorns into a pile. You can also get busted for hunting over bait if you're hunting in an area baited by someone else, whether you know about it or not. And there is no distance that you're safe. If the game commission feels that you're hunting an animal that is going towards that bait then you can get fined. I find it hard to believe that this would hold up in court but never knew anyone that actually got charged with it. I've heard stories of it happening but all just second hand.
I hunt on a friends property and his water softener empties at the end of his yard creating an artificial salt lick. I don't hunt over it but I'm sure I could get in trouble for hunting there if the game officer was inclined to pursue it.
I have always food plotted. I worked as a wildlife biologist for the Feds for 34 years and it was part of my job. I have food plotted on my own land for 20 years. I first started baiting about five years ago just to position deer for my young grand daughters to shoot. This baiting was always done within the boundaries of a food plot and spread on the ground by hand. I would say better than fifty percent of the deer that visited the food plot did not visit the corn. Then, I took it a step further. I have multiple adjacent property owners who own ten or fifteen acres, do no management whatsoever, and put out a corn feeder next to my property line and might shoot four or five deer. That moved me to begin supplemental feeding starting in May to not only help the physical well being of the deer, but to pattern them more to my property. I also use a higher grade food than corn which the bucks tend to use more heavily. It leaves a bitter taste that I raise most of the deer on my land, but several ten acre adjacent landowners kill most of them. The only deer I kill off the bait are the cream of the crop or some inferior bucks we want to put in the freezer. This has to be done early in bow season for best results. Outbait thy neighbor and hunt early are the paths to success.
All that said, the landowner with the most deer and the biggest deer is a cattle rancher that does nothing for the benefit of the deer with the exception of one thing - he protects most of them from harvest - he allows three of us to hunt, bow only, and he requires we mount what we kill. Makes us a little more selective and the deer know it
All that said, the landowner with the most deer and the biggest deer is a cattle rancher that does nothing for the benefit of the deer with the exception of one thing - he protects most of them from harvest - he allows three of us to hunt, bow only, and he requires we mount what we kill. Makes us a little more selective and the deer know it
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
In my eyes baiting is an admission that you aren’t good enough to do it without help…or why would you do it. It’s a competitive advantage over something that already isn’t fighting a fair fight. We have guns that can shoot 600 yds, bows 330 fps and sit in machined aircraft aluminum stands 25’ in a tree. It’s cheap and in my eyes it makes the kill meaningless. BUT that is 10000% my opinion and many many will disagree and that’s fine.
a food plot is something that may aid in the kill but it also benefits game and non game alike. It’s something that takes effort and time and may or may not work. It’s 180 degrees from baiting.
a food plot is something that may aid in the kill but it also benefits game and non game alike. It’s something that takes effort and time and may or may not work. It’s 180 degrees from baiting.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
First, I think there is way too much focus on what other people think. If you kill a big buck over a pile of corn in your back yard and you are happy about it, then be happy about it. I certainly would. Who cares what anyone else thinks? I use absolutely every trick and technique available to kill deer. My goal is to kill them, not to play games with them. It's already hard enough to kill most of the animals I'm after, so I'm going to do everything reasonably possible to put the odds in my favor.
As for my own appreciation of my experiences, the more difficult the hunt, the more rewarding the success. Probably my best hunting memory is a stalk on a red stag in the wilderness of western Norway. It was the most challenging and exciting hunt I've ever done. But that big whitetail buck in Ohio that I lured in to my tree stand with some estrous urine was pretty gosh-darn exciting too. If lures, bait, food plots, etc. help me kill animals I otherwise wouldn't kill, then of course I will use them. My goal is a successful hunt and meat on my dinner table. If I succeed in that, then I'm happy.
I don't see the point in making hunting more challenging than it already is. In fact, I want to do all I can to increase my odds of success. And I don't see the point in comparing myself to other hunters, unless I can learn from them and become a better hunter. And again, the point of becoming a better hunter is to increase my odds for success.
I see similar arguments with fishing as well. Fly rods vs. crank baits vs. live bait, etc. If a fish wants a fly, I'll try to throw it a fly, but if they're hitting worms, then I'll chuck a worm at them. My goal is to catch some fish so I can eat them. If someone else disapproves, he can go kick rocks. It would never occur to me that the big 5lb. smallmouth on my wall was less of a trophy because I got it with a worm instead of a dry fly. Same with my deer. Those trophies are reminders of my success, and I'm proud of my successes.
As for my own appreciation of my experiences, the more difficult the hunt, the more rewarding the success. Probably my best hunting memory is a stalk on a red stag in the wilderness of western Norway. It was the most challenging and exciting hunt I've ever done. But that big whitetail buck in Ohio that I lured in to my tree stand with some estrous urine was pretty gosh-darn exciting too. If lures, bait, food plots, etc. help me kill animals I otherwise wouldn't kill, then of course I will use them. My goal is a successful hunt and meat on my dinner table. If I succeed in that, then I'm happy.
I don't see the point in making hunting more challenging than it already is. In fact, I want to do all I can to increase my odds of success. And I don't see the point in comparing myself to other hunters, unless I can learn from them and become a better hunter. And again, the point of becoming a better hunter is to increase my odds for success.
I see similar arguments with fishing as well. Fly rods vs. crank baits vs. live bait, etc. If a fish wants a fly, I'll try to throw it a fly, but if they're hitting worms, then I'll chuck a worm at them. My goal is to catch some fish so I can eat them. If someone else disapproves, he can go kick rocks. It would never occur to me that the big 5lb. smallmouth on my wall was less of a trophy because I got it with a worm instead of a dry fly. Same with my deer. Those trophies are reminders of my success, and I'm proud of my successes.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
As a white privileged land owning american patriarch, I'm fine if my state outlaws baiting. It's different learning deer travel patterns and where they'll be because that's where they want to be.
That and I have enough land and grown food at my disposal to out compete the guys with 20 acres and 5 guys hunting. No baiting would be a boon for me.
That said, I have neighbors with 20 acres and 3 corn piles that kill deer. They can hunt it like it's 200 acres. That's fine, but it forces me to do the same.
I have killed deer over bait. I also have killed deer not over bait. In the end we're killing them. The deer doesn't care.
If someone else has a better corn pile with better access, they are free to go there.
Stay within the law, have fun, take a kid with you.
my weener is average sized enough that I don't have to prove to a bunch of people, whom I care almost nothing about, how good a hunter I am.
That and I have enough land and grown food at my disposal to out compete the guys with 20 acres and 5 guys hunting. No baiting would be a boon for me.
That said, I have neighbors with 20 acres and 3 corn piles that kill deer. They can hunt it like it's 200 acres. That's fine, but it forces me to do the same.
I have killed deer over bait. I also have killed deer not over bait. In the end we're killing them. The deer doesn't care.
If someone else has a better corn pile with better access, they are free to go there.
Stay within the law, have fun, take a kid with you.
my weener is average sized enough that I don't have to prove to a bunch of people, whom I care almost nothing about, how good a hunter I am.
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
So....you hunt with your weener?
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Why not?
I hunt with a 6 pack,field glasses, and an I Pod chock full of pod casts on habitat porn
Stay out past dark unless I hear the wife or kids shoot
To paraphrase Telemark :"If it makes you happy"
bill
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
I used to use mine for thinking.
To be honest, I wish baiting was outlawed today in my state. That is my own selfish viewpoint. I have about 400 acres, two tractors, a dozen implements, I am retired, and I have a little extra money to buy seed and deisel. However, there are a ton of folks who live in my area that are not in my position. A lot of my neighbors own ten or fifteen acres, both the husband and wife work hard, but they still cant afford 300 acres, a tractor, take off when they want to plant, or travel a hundred miles to public ground every time they want to hunt. And some can really use the meat.
No, I dont like that they can set a corn pile fifty feet off my property line and kill “my” deer. If it wasnt for that corn, a deer wouldnt ever visit their property. But, I have come to realize it is part of the playing field - a bad hop in baseball, a rain soaked football. It is what it is. No crying about it - either accept it and move on while they kill half the shooter bucks (which are few) - or do something about it. It is a choice. I kill very few does, because I know my neighbors will kill my share. It is a conscience management consideration.
And to think a corn pile benefits no other wildlife is an erroneous thought. Put a good camera on a corn pile with high sensitivety, and you will see there is a plethora of small birds and mammals that will take advantage of the food source. Without corn, I could not effectively control my hogs. It is utilized by a wide variety of animals.
I dont need to bait to kill a deer. I kill most of my deer off public land with a bow. I know several folks who say those who hunt private land do it because they cant kill them on public. I dont take that as gospel, but there is some truth to it. But, that said, I do need to hunt over bait on my own land if I want to consistently kill the biggest buck on the place. By consistently, I mean maybe every other year. If I dont bait, my baiting neighbors will kill the biggest buck on my place before gun season ever opens - 75% of the time. In my neck of the woods, food plots are just not much of a draw early season. I have seen his play out for years - and I am not going to lie - it gets frustrating when year after year your neighbors who own ten acres and a corn pile show you pictures of the biggest buck you had on the place - that they killed 20 feet from my property line. I have only been at this deer hunting thing for fifty years, and no doubt, there are better hunters than me that could consistently kill the biggest bucks without using bait - before the neighbors got them. Unfortunately, I cant.
No, I dont like that they can set a corn pile fifty feet off my property line and kill “my” deer. If it wasnt for that corn, a deer wouldnt ever visit their property. But, I have come to realize it is part of the playing field - a bad hop in baseball, a rain soaked football. It is what it is. No crying about it - either accept it and move on while they kill half the shooter bucks (which are few) - or do something about it. It is a choice. I kill very few does, because I know my neighbors will kill my share. It is a conscience management consideration.
And to think a corn pile benefits no other wildlife is an erroneous thought. Put a good camera on a corn pile with high sensitivety, and you will see there is a plethora of small birds and mammals that will take advantage of the food source. Without corn, I could not effectively control my hogs. It is utilized by a wide variety of animals.
I dont need to bait to kill a deer. I kill most of my deer off public land with a bow. I know several folks who say those who hunt private land do it because they cant kill them on public. I dont take that as gospel, but there is some truth to it. But, that said, I do need to hunt over bait on my own land if I want to consistently kill the biggest buck on the place. By consistently, I mean maybe every other year. If I dont bait, my baiting neighbors will kill the biggest buck on my place before gun season ever opens - 75% of the time. In my neck of the woods, food plots are just not much of a draw early season. I have seen his play out for years - and I am not going to lie - it gets frustrating when year after year your neighbors who own ten acres and a corn pile show you pictures of the biggest buck you had on the place - that they killed 20 feet from my property line. I have only been at this deer hunting thing for fifty years, and no doubt, there are better hunters than me that could consistently kill the biggest bucks without using bait - before the neighbors got them. Unfortunately, I cant.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
To be honest, once baiting becomes the social norm, outlawing it does marginal good. Bating has always been illegal in VA, but it is very common. Law enforcement is stretched pretty thin, and they have bigger fish to fry in most cases. If you report it, they will investigate and prosecute as times permits, but when you think about it, it is not high on the priority list of protecting the resource. Some studies have shown that folks hunting over bait are only marginally more successful at harvest deer than those who don't use bait. Is law enforcement protecting the resource by focusing on baiters or by focusing on rings that are killing animals far exceeding bag limits each year?
Some folks in our area have been baiting since they were young and have become real masters at it. Those master-baiters just won't stop regardless of the law.
Some folks in our area have been baiting since they were young and have become real masters at it. Those master-baiters just won't stop regardless of the law.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
Legal here in my state. For the majority that do it locally really seems to only be an advantage to bowhunters before gun season or bow hunting very late in the season during really cold snaps around here. As soon as the first guns start going off nice bucks start getting scarce and the road hunting pushers start pounding the brush killing every deer they see. If using feeders and planting whatever I can keeps deer on my property or shifts them onto it where they are safer....good.
I can't ever see them outlawing baiting here, way too many deer getting hit on the roadways with Insurance being big lobbyist and deer hunting being big money for the ODNR.
I can't ever see them outlawing baiting here, way too many deer getting hit on the roadways with Insurance being big lobbyist and deer hunting being big money for the ODNR.
