Bad taste in my mouth

[wiscwhip]

How fast? It has been almost 3.5 years since Gov Scooter authorized the Deer Trustee review audit of our deer management practices. The 2014 season was the trial run for the rule changes brought about by the DTR audit, with "emergency" rules meant to curb the overharvest of antlerless deer and grow the herd. We now have the final "rule package"(which will make the changes permanent), ready to be voted in for this fall season. We are in the process of meetings of our newly formed county committees this past week and next to set recommendations for next fall's antlerless harvest. Those will then go to our Natural Resources Board along with the DNR's "recommendations" for the NRB to review and then voted on in June to set next falls tag allotment. The hunters of WI were complaining and some were already leaving the sport for quite a few years before Walker was even Governor, so yes, it takes a long time to get those changes to occur. Kudos to everyone, everywhere that tries to change their own destiny and form coops and clubs with their neighboring landowners. But that will help you even more if the DNR's are doing their job. No one should have to do those things to spite them or because of them.

Your "what's the point in hunting here" comment is exactly what has been happening in the northern forest region of WI for a few years now due to ultra low numbers in most areas, sure there are most likely pockets, but we all know how that goes. So with the recent exodus of hunters abandoning the northwoods due to no deer, the pressure has moved south to other areas that were already starting to struggle with numbers due to unlimited antlerless tags without the additional pressure. Thus the wave of overkill continued, and things in many areas got pretty bad. I am hopeful we have reached a turning point in our management and that it is successful moving forward, and I wish the best of luck to everyone else fighting to get and keep their deer management in order. I will continue to support them and help them any way I can, skin in the game or not.

 

[dipper]

Hmmm, let's see? In WI our sportsmen beat our DNR into submission on a regular basis

Wi hunters did it without the Internet and without qdma, so get over it.
If you want to accomplish something do it the ole fashion way.....go to the bar and change the world!

 

[John-W-WI]

I'm glad to see the discussion has turned back to the issue at hand, deer management.

For the record, I believe I have locked a grand total of 2 threads. This forum is 1 year old next month. So much for "locking a thread every time someone complains".

Those of you that feel the need to call me out and patronize me, please keep it positive. If you spent as much time fixing things as you did breaking them down, the world would be a better place.

I wish nothing but the best for Minnesota, and fear Wisconsin isn't but a season or two away from the same problems. You guys working to fix Minnesota are to be commended, it isn't easy swimming up-stream. Yet you continue to do so, even when the going gets rough. I respect that a bunch.

-John

 

[dipper]

^^^try getting out of the state once in awhile. WI deer hunters are a different breed than almost anywhere else...WI politicians are also much more in tune with deer hunters than most anywhere else...because of the fact WI deer hunters have always been a vocal bunch.

Sucks being you guys I guess. Move to wi and buy land at $5000/acre and pay our property taxes. Didn't you just sell land in one of wis better hunting areas anyway?
The fact is most don't want to hear what your saying, and pushing harder is turning people off more.
IT turns people off completely when you guys have this chip on your shoulder. Your movement has a, if your not with us your against us tone. I've told you this before, but as it's been said, egos get in the way. Your choice......

 

[Kansas-andres]

Michigan sportsman and the QDMA forum have dedicated sections discussing : state regulations, hunting law changes, antler restrictions, poaching etc. IMHO, deer hunters have taken a back seat in the new era of hunting. REVENUE is priority #1 in every State. Not discussing the future of the sport we love is idiotic IMO. Hunters sharing concerns, ideas, change, frustration, is something that has been discussed since our sport was introduced.

I am passionate about hunting, plots, habitat, tree planting, maze concepts, hinge cutting.......I live and breath everything about the outdoors... I get bored easily discussing these things......Most is old news and trees that are hinge cut all look the same on my screen...

 

[foggy]

Sucks being you guys I guess. Move to wi and buy land at $5000/acre and pay our property taxes. Didn't you just sell land in one of wis better hunting areas anyway?
The fact is most don't want to hear what your saying, and pushing harder is turning people off more.
IT turns people off completely when you guys have this chip on your shoulder. Your movement has a, if your not with us your against us tone. I've told you this before, but as it's been said, egos get in the way. Your choice......

After trying many other approaches to change in MN.....I'm O.K. with the route we've taken. Not sure what other choice there is for us? :confused:

 

[sandbur]

^^^try getting out of the state once in awhile. WI deer hunters are a different breed than almost anywhere else...WI politicians are also much more in tune with deer hunters than most anywhere else...because of the fact WI deer hunters have always been a vocal bunch.

I was just thinking of the discussions we used to have that were years ago. Before we met and when you were a Wis. resident. I kept saying how things are different on this side of the river.

I'm not saying better, just different. That seems like a long time ago.

Now both states have gone down hill.

 

[sandbur]

After trying many other approaches to change in MN.....I'm O.K. with the route we've taken. Not sure what other choice there is for us? :confused:

Quite a few do not like our route. I do think it has forced others to take notice and begin to take things seriously. Many hunters now realize there has got to be change of some sort.

There has got to be a good cop and a bad cop.

 

[sandbur]

You were dead nutz right...its really funny/strange/whatever to me the difference the St. Croix/Mississippi River makes.

On the bright side, a bunch of Minnesotans have embraced a more abrasive approach to dealing with the DNR and politicians. I find that a bit reinforcing ;)

I think we need more Wis. beer over here and we might get it right!

 

[foggy]

Quite a few do not like our route. I do think it has forced others to take notice and begin to take things seriously. Many hunters now realize there has got to be change of some sort.

There has got to be a good cop and a bad cop.

Funny you say that "good cop / bad cop" analogy. I just thought that today. Sometimes my best role has been as a "bad cop". I'm thankful that some of the others have supplied the "good cop" to those issues. :)

 

[wiscwhip]

Wi hunters did it without the Internet and without qdma, so get over it.
If you want to accomplish something do it the ole fashion way.....go to the bar and change the world!

^^^try getting out of the state once in awhile. WI deer hunters are a different breed than almost anywhere else...WI politicians are also much more in tune with deer hunters than most anywhere else...because of the fact WI deer hunters have always been a vocal bunch.

You're absolutely right dipper and for the exact reasons stu points out.

 

[*Hawaii5joe*]

Why discuss the approach at this point? It's proven to work so far. I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm not sure I've ever seen the DNR on their heels like this before. No one else can have a nothing to loose everything to gain attitude. MDHA fears loosing their connections with the DNR, possibly grants, members that wouldn't approve of an aggressive style of fact finding. QDMA won't do anything worth a damn either.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

I want better deer hunting for myself and my family. I also want better hunting for everyone else that gives enough of a sh-t to spend their time and money improving habitat for wildlife. If the methods used to lobby for better hunting are offensive to other like minded hunters I think they need to do a little soul searching. We will always see things differently as hunters and people but we should be united in the fact that we all want the best hunting we can get. Look at all the crap we do for deer. Some people may look at us as crazy for spending thousands of dollars on the things we do but I wouldn't and couldn't have it any other way. It's a way of life for me and hopefully I can pass this lifestyle on to others because it's a good thing. If any other hunters go through the scenario we have, I support however they choose to deal with it. We all deserve better hunting because we've earned it.

 

[sandbur]

[QUOTE="Riggsgwp-> We all deserve better hunting because we've earned it.[/QUOTE]

I feel we also deserve better hunting since we have paid for it. Our deer hunter's license dollars should be going for high quality management of our deer population.

Where has this license money gone? Roundtable discussions for small groups? Sandhill crane hunts? Prairie chicken hunts? Do hunters pay for the fisheries programs?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Whip - in post #48 you said hunters have abandoned the Northwoods of your state due to lack of deer and now have moved south where the pressure is increased. SAME IN PA. The highways used to be jammed with hunters making the yearly trek north to the " big woods " of Pa. No more. Highways look like any other day of the year. I suspect this is happening in several states - probably Mn., Wi., Mi., Oh., N.Y., Pa., Vt., N.H. - maybe more.

You gents are correct saying our tax & license $$$ should be used to manage our wildlife for us & future generations. The problem is that sportsmen & women pay our taxes, buy our licenses and then - largely disappear ....... quietly. We depend on the INTEGRITY ( lost meaning ) of those agencies to do the right thing. Behind the scenes, the BIG $$$ BOYS are putting the pressure on those same agencies to " loosen up " when it comes to THEIR interests, which don't come close to ours. Guys can bark about left and right politics and yada-yada-yada, but the fact remains - the avg. guy/woman is not even in the picture when the big money, well-connected folks are holding wads of campaign $$$ behind closed doors. ( And I'm not the only one with this view - millions of Americans feel the same way on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. On a whole HOST of topics , not just deer numbers. )

Many of the in-state sportsmen's groups in Pa. organized and had LOTS of articles, radio commentary, public meetings put out and attended to put a ton of pressure on the PGC after Alt and crew clobbered the deer numbers here. Uniting, organizing, threatening with your VOTES is what gets it done. Alt became a pariah here and left pretty much quietly with no fanfare. He knows bears, but became a tool for the big lobbies of Insurance, timber, and to a lesser degree - ag. Organized pressure from sportsmen got things changed to some degree here in Pa. ( still needs some work, but it's somewhat better ). So organized pressure & votes is the correct route, IMO.

My suggestion of local cooperation between landowners was a quicker option for us in my hunting location. I assumed ( I guess wrongly ) that many of you Mn. & Wi. guys were in more ag.- focused areas where most of the land was in private hands - farmers or just rural dwellers. That's why I suggested local efforts toward better deer management. If that's not the case, then organizing in big numbers and drawing attention to dwindling deer numbers and making the case for LOST REVENUE ( for state agencies ) and LOST INCOME for the hotels, motels, restaurants, sporting goods stores, sporting goods manufacturers, etc. will be your best avenues to pursue. If the hunting's no good, money will not be spent on those things. In the absence of loads of money ( like the big lobbies have ), your sporting goods dollars - spent or not spent - and your votes are the biggest clubs you can swing - the vote being the biggest. Apathy and sideline-sitting won't get anything done.

 

[dipper]

Well, INTEGRITY, is a word not used much anymore these days.

Certainly not with anyone running the MN DNR, QDMA or MDHA. Never has been, and probably never will be any integrity in those organizations anymore from what I can tell. Way to many hidden agendas.

It's the American way in basically ever aspect of our lives.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

[QUOTE="Riggsgwp-> We all deserve better hunting because we've earned it.

I feel we also deserve better hunting since we have paid for it. Our deer hunter's license dollars should be going for high quality management of our deer population.

Where has this license money gone? Roundtable discussions for small groups? Sandhill crane hunts? Prairie chicken hunts? Do hunters pay for the fisheries programs?[/QUOTE]

Don't forget that our license dollars also paid for a $40k survey to figure out why the squirrels are declining on public land in MN.