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Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?
- Thread starter Howboutthemdawgs
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I grew up in the days and rules in our state were that nothing electronic was to be used while hunting. No lighted sites on bows. We didn’t have electronics on guns or game cameras in those days.Good for Idaho. Hope this passes
Restrictions On High Tech For Hunting Sent To Idaho Legislature For Consideration -
Following a long public process with a cross section of hunters, the Idaho state legislature is set to consider banning night vision, thermal imaging optics, "transmitting" trail cameras and other gear for scouting or hunting. Traditional game cams would still be allowed.nwsportsmanmag.com
We didn’t even have depth finders or gps for fishing.
I somewhat miss those days. Also less emphasis on antlers.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Looks to be public but the state is literally 70% public land so it would be the overwhelming majority of hunting. My buddy was on the initial wave of this and I know that state is taking it seriously
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
I interpret that link to say it would apply statewide for big game hunting. Exceptions would be for wolf hunting on private land or on public in designated expanded methods of take units from Nov. 15-Dec. 31.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Silly rules imo.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Why?
matinc
5 year old buck +
Omi, for Christ sakes do you believe it's fair chase knowing where every deer on your property is every second is evenly remotely hunting. You can even fly your dam drones over it in case you can't access it. Sorry, but I'm appalled, how low hunting ethics fall. Frankly your putting yourself in that club and I believe your way better than that.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
I'm going to circle back to a comment I made early in this thread about the glory days of hunting. In Northern Maine and NH, VT and the Berkshires of MA, and in the Adirondacks...the glory days are alive and well. Hunting the big woods of the Northeast, especially Maine, feels old. The traditions and the ways are as they were in the 50's, 60's 70's etc. When you are tracking a big buck in the big woods there are no trespassers, no trail cams, no drones, rarely do you even see another hunter, VERY few property lines to worry about. It's just you, and your skills as a hunter and as a woodsman, your fitness, your mental toughness against the buck. And because most trackers are looking for a big deer over 200 lbs., there is almost no emphasis on antlers. For all intents and purposes the hunting ethos focused on body size and not antlers is a self-imposed APR because small bucks aren't shot. Therefore, there's no shortage of big bucks with big antlers.
If you've never been, I can't recommend it enough. It will test you like no other whitetail hunt. You will go 4, 5, 6 days in a row seeing only deer beds. Days and days of walking and getting wet and hungry...only to spook bucks, jump them out of beds, or never even catch up to them before you have to turn around and head back to the truck. But man, when you eventually catch that old buck in a swamp before he sees you after tracking him down, there is NOTHING like that feeling.
So yeah...the glory days are alive and well in the Northeast big woods. The last few winters have seen almost no snow, so the deer herds are doing great and numbers are on the increase. A great time to be a deer hunter.
If you've never been, I can't recommend it enough. It will test you like no other whitetail hunt. You will go 4, 5, 6 days in a row seeing only deer beds. Days and days of walking and getting wet and hungry...only to spook bucks, jump them out of beds, or never even catch up to them before you have to turn around and head back to the truck. But man, when you eventually catch that old buck in a swamp before he sees you after tracking him down, there is NOTHING like that feeling.
So yeah...the glory days are alive and well in the Northeast big woods. The last few winters have seen almost no snow, so the deer herds are doing great and numbers are on the increase. A great time to be a deer hunter.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
You make me want to do this in N. MN. I have a tiny bit but not much. The deer population and potential for a good buck is pretty awful but deer still exist and just getting some miles on in the northwoods is better than sitting in the same old stands. I've done quite a bit of tracking elk like this in MT though. Through crotch deep snow at times! Feels like it'll never work until it does.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I just don’t know when the “old days” were. When we were kids? Our grandad? Their grandad?
The native Americans didn’t have horses. They had to stalk on foot with bows. So no atv?
Lewis and Clark had many helpers to carry gear. So no guides?
What about aluminum alloy climbers and ladder stands. That can’t be fair chase can it?
And by faaaar the biggest advancement is the rifle. So no gunpowder for sure. That can’t be fair chase. Look at what happened to the American bison population when the repeating rifle became ubiquitous.
Technology will always move forward. Always trying to keep it at where it was during our formative years is silly imo.
The native Americans didn’t have horses. They had to stalk on foot with bows. So no atv?
Lewis and Clark had many helpers to carry gear. So no guides?
What about aluminum alloy climbers and ladder stands. That can’t be fair chase can it?
And by faaaar the biggest advancement is the rifle. So no gunpowder for sure. That can’t be fair chase. Look at what happened to the American bison population when the repeating rifle became ubiquitous.
Technology will always move forward. Always trying to keep it at where it was during our formative years is silly imo.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
None of that is even discussed in the proposed ID language. Are you for legalization of drones, nightvision, and thermals to locate game? Those are the items that are potentially much more impactful in the west IMO, more so than cell cams which were also included.
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
I myself like that there are different options for people to choose how they want to hunt. Not everyone is in great shape or great health and if they need a little more of an "edge" to help them get out there to hunt I'm all for it. Lots of different skill levels too between hunters. People that want a more challenging/rewarding hunt can certainly choose to take the more difficult path to harvest animals but it's nice that there are choices. My thinking is that a person should be able to hunt however they want as long as it's within the law. jmho
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Well what we're talking about is what the law should be.. And Drones, Thermals, Nightvision, etc is a pretty gross step too far IMO.
I'm for the use of drones and thermals to find downed game, but not to assist with hunting.
I could take or leave cell cameras as we killed bigger bucks before cell cameras were common, but I do enjoy checking my cell camera pics every morning.
wayyy back in the day, you hunt, you eat. you don't, you die. we're not in the middle ages anymore, we've progressed and thus, our hunting techniques/tools have followed. Before trailcams came out, you could easily call me a hard-core hunter. Hunted with a recurve for probably my first 10 yrs of bowhunting, and, no : 4 wheelers, SxS, cams, gps, range finders, foodplots, phones, etc. And then I got old, and I simply can't go non-stop the entire hunting season like I used to. First noticed this when I almost stopped duck hunting. Why did I stop? Because I was getting old, and I hunted so hard during deer season I was wore the hell out after deer season was over and needed the rest, f them ducks.
In order to keep our hunting tradition alive, we need new recruits. We all already know the newbies weren't likely raised like we were: willing to go hardcore and earn our stripes. These young uns grew up in the tech world. I think a little give in the tech arena for hunting will pay off by higher hunter numbers, and will help protect our rights. Yeah, one can say they're not hard-core hunters, but there's nothing hard-core today, like it was when i grew up.
I'm completely with you Gypsy on your alarm about: drones, thermals, and even forward looking sonar. You might as well throw up a high fence while you're at it. Cameras and weapon technology I'm ok with for sure. I just can't be that hard-core anymore. My life doesn't depend on that next wild-game meal, and I was done seeking the hard-core glory long ago.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Says who? You? A legislator that has never used any of that equipment?
Just be careful, because for every person that thinks a drone or a thermal is too far, there’s someone that thinks a rifle is too far. Then there are a lot of people that think any hunting is too far.
Don’t think setting some kind of moral standard will make the anti-hunters like you or hunting anymore.
A rifle and scope that can kill at 600+ yards is waaaay past any standard of fair chase.
To related to the posted legislation, how is a cell camera any different than a camera that you have to pull the card from? Because I live an hour and a half away from my farm I’m less of a hunter than someone that lives on their property and can go out and pull the cards nightly? That makes no sense.
As far as thermals, I have used them extensively predator hunting for close to four years now. What is the difference between me sitting in a ground blind using a thermal to identify a deer in the brush, that I would not shoot until they come out into the open, and someone in a self climber tree stand at 30 feet that can see down over the top of the brush and identify the same deer? I weigh 230 pounds and I’m afraid of heights. I have also taken care of many many hunters that have hurt themselves climbing way up in trees. Does that make 140 pound hunter a better hunter than me?
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Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Says me, that is my opinion. I dont claim it to be the absolute way, truth, and light but thats how I feel about it. If folks in areas that treat whitetails like varmints, allow deer to be run with dogs, and have rifle seasons for months continuously yet still have robust populations want to give their animals zero chance of being unlocated, go for it. Its kind of repulsive to me but I dont hunt in those areas.
That said, Idaho is a far cry from that. Using drones and thermals in big open country with low population densities where animals use small pockets of cover to hide during daylight hours is completely different. They have to limit tags and especially rifle hunting during rut to not have hunters wipe out some of these populations.
That doesn't even get into the issues of people using drones over private property of others and the cluster F that could cause.
Edit to add: While i think it's off-putting that animals wouldn't be able to escape detection from a thermal drone, my contention is more than anything the negative impact on hunting experience and opportunities than some moral qualm. Taking the unknown out of the hunt and giving animals in many places next to zero chance of escaping means theres a lot less animals on the landscape to even hunt. I spent a week glassing for muleys in NV this year and never found one that got the blood pumping. Cant imagine how many fewer would be on that landscape if people were able to find every one of them with a thermal drone.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Ok. Thought experiment time try to take yourself out of the equation and be an unbiased observer.
Hunter 1:
Hunts out west for elk and mule deer. Has a seekins ph3 6 creedmoor and reloads. Has killing velocity out to 700 yards with well established dope using online calculator. 1200 dollar mil dot scope 2-12x with quick drop dope reticle tailored to hand loaded ammo. Carbon fiber tripod and bipod for stable shots.
Swaro German binos 12x. Laser cut glass and high tech film to gather every bit of light. 15-18x spotting scope with ame high tech glass. These sit on carbon fiber tripod that weighs less than two pounds. Easy to pack in and can glass all day.
Laser rangefinder built into binos or handheld. Can range an animal to 1800 yards.
4 trail cams that he put out at beginning of hunt. He checks the cards daily as he stalks the route he’s been planning with onx gps for months. He has his Garmen inreach to call with any emergencies.
Carbon fiber framed backpack with all the goodies. Synthetic clothes to keep you warm. LED headlamps. A multitool with all you need. Down sleeping bags good to 0 degrees. Freeze dried meals for instant food on your insta boil propane burner. Space age tent that weighs two pounds that provides great protection from elements. Don’t forget inflatable or memory foam ground pad under the sleeping bag.
Hunter 2:
Hunts on his families 200 acres. Uses a 30-06 his grandfather used good to 300 yards with a vortex scope. Has 8x vortex binos and no range finder. Uses old wool vest and long John’s he’s had for years.
He and his cousins have two cell cams on the property that they all share an account for to check deer on their one green field. His wife gave him a 240 thermal that cost 700 dollars from temu for Christmas. He’s pumped when he sees a blurry red blob out at the end of the field a few steps still in the woods.
Do you think an unbiased observer would say
Hunter 1: man he is doing it right. What a mountain man fair chasing those elk
Hunter 2: he is over the line. Technology is ruining hunting.
We are all so biased by our personal experiences. The boogey man is not right around the corner ruining hunting. For many many here, hunting is the best it has ever been WITH new tech. The other have to get used to it. Look at me as an Alabama fan. I have to get used to not being the best, even though I’ve had it great for 20 years. Things change. Adapt, be happy, and move on. And maybe look at ourselves first and the advantages we happily take advantage of before looking at others and saying “that’s over the line.”
