Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[SwampCat]

I know the US is the land of capitalism, but that still doesnt improve my view of non-residents. While we dont have a lot of NR deer hunters, They have ruined AR duck hunting. They have driven a lot of residents off the public ground, and They have driven up duck lease prices to where your average Arkansan cant afford them. They buy duck land and have driven up land prices where the average arkansan cant afford to buy anywhere near a hole of water where a duck might fly over. And I cant really blame the NR - the g&f promotes the raping of the resource by NR.

I dont get any favors when I go out of state. I used to bird hunt a couple times a year in the central US. I was in SD one time and heard an outfitter in a restaurant tell some folks he was with that he leased about twice as much land as he needed so more NR would have to come to him to hunt.

AR, like MO, has a percentage of statewide sales tax that goes directly to the g&f - that NR are only paying a fraction of the amount that resident pay. AR has very little wildlife resource that a NR would be willing to come here for - except ducks. It should cost as much for a NR to duck hunt in AR for two weeks as it does to hunt elk in CO. But our state would sell the last duck if they could.

 

[BenA]

Or like Western states restricting non residents who want to hunt elk, or sheep, or moose, or pronghorn..... I can't hunt those things here but I still don't get to show up and hunt there like the residents can. I do have the option to move there though.
The resource isn't infinite, if you care about your state and want to keep your best residents from leaving, they need advantages.

I don't think hunting is the deciding factor on what keeps most Americans where they live. If I had to move everytime I wanted to enjoy a resource somewhere in my country, I'd be a gypsy. Are we going to cap nonresidents from owning a condo on the beach in Florida? There a plenty of non-residents that have displaced or made it unaffordable for the average Floridian to own a house on the beach.

 

[hillrunner]

I don't think hunting is the deciding factor on what keeps most Americans where they live. If I had to move everytime I wanted to enjoy a resource somewhere in my country, I'd be a gypsy. Are we going to cap nonresidents from owning a condo on the beach in Florida? There a plenty of non-residents that have displaced or made it unaffordable for the average Floridian to own a house on the beach.

Deer hunting has brought a lot of high performers to Iowa and kept others here. Most of the well known Iowa hunters are not from here. It's the only reason I haven't moved myself and my business a couple miles across the border into South Dakota with a far more favorable tax structure.

I wouldn't expect you to move every time you want access to a resource in another state but I also wouldn't expect you to have the same access as the residents. How many elk do you think would be left in the country if every US resident had unfettered access?

Several states are looking into charging substantially higher tax rates for 2nd homes to combat this very issue. I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or not but It's wise for a state to take care of their residents first. How many homes does black rock own? Is that good for our country?

In a perfect world where land and resources are never ending, I'd agree with everything you say. I'd love to be able to hunt out west every year. Instead I keep buying points for that elk hunt in the Grand Teton mountains hoping I don't die before I draw the tag. A tag that I'd never be able to buy if it was simply sold to the highest bidder.

 

[BenA]

Deer hunting has brought a lot of high performers to Iowa and kept others here. Most of the well known Iowa hunters are not from here. It's the only reason I haven't moved myself and my business a couple miles across the border into South Dakota with a far more favorable tax structure.

I wouldn't expect you to move every time you want access to a resource in another state but I also wouldn't expect you to have the same access as the residents. How many elk do you think would be left in the country if every US resident had unfettered access?

Several states are looking into charging substantially higher tax rates for 2nd homes to combat this very issue. I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or not but It's wise for a state to take care of their residents first. How many homes does black rock own? Is that good for our country?

In a perfect world where land and resources are never ending, I'd agree with everything you say. I'd love to be able to hunt out west every year. Instead I keep buying points for that elk hunt in the Grand Teton mountains hoping I don't die before I draw the tag. A tag that I'd never be able to buy if it was simply sold to the highest bidder.

So the desire is for some residents to put restrictions on the income of other residents?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Deer hunting has brought a lot of high performers to Iowa and kept others here. Most of the well known Iowa hunters are not from here. It's the only reason I haven't moved myself and my business a couple miles across the border into South Dakota with a far more favorable tax structure.

I wouldn't expect you to move every time you want access to a resource in another state but I also wouldn't expect you to have the same access as the residents. How many elk do you think would be left in the country if every US resident had unfettered access?

Several states are looking into charging substantially higher tax rates for 2nd homes to combat this very issue. I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or not but It's wise for a state to take care of their residents first. How many homes does black rock own? Is that good for our country?

In a perfect world where land and resources are never ending, I'd agree with everything you say. I'd love to be able to hunt out west every year. Instead I keep buying points for that elk hunt in the Grand Teton mountains hoping I don't die before I draw the tag. A tag that I'd never be able to buy if it was simply sold to the highest bidder.

I agree with everything you said except I bet I differ in one area. I think nonresident landowners (of a certain size) should be treated the same as residents. I’ve listed the reasons before but the cliffs are they pay more in taxes than they use and generally they are more infested in the state than a large amount of residents.

 

[hillrunner]

I agree with everything you said except I bet I differ in one area. I think nonresident landowners (of a certain size) should be treated the same as residents. I’ve listed the reasons before but the cliffs are they pay more in taxes than they use and generally they are more infested in the state than a large amount of residents.

What size would you say is fair? I've heard an argument for this where I can see the merit . Basically they were asking for an acreage size large enough that would encourage nr landowners to put larger parcels together. I could see that being good for everyone, I wish more large parcels existed.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

What size would you say is fair? I've heard an argument for this where I can see the merit . Basically they were asking for an acreage size large enough that would encourage nr landowners to put larger parcels together. I could see that being good for everyone, I wish more large parcels existed.

Idk it’s arbitrary to an extent. One man’s large is another man’s small (giggity). But I could see the merit in making it large enough to be restrictive. Say 100 acres at minimum? Would discourage a lot of parcelling off and make the nonresident have substantial skin in the game

 

[hillrunner]

Idk it’s arbitrary to an extent. One man’s large is another man’s small (giggity). But I could see the merit in making it large enough to be restrictive. Say 100 acres at minimum? Would discourage a lot of parcelling off and make the nonresident have substantial skin in the game

We're closing in on common ground but that's way too small . I don't want to see Iowa chopped up into 100 after tracts.

 

[BenA]

Idk it’s arbitrary to an extent. One man’s large is another man’s small (giggity). But I could see the merit in making it large enough to be restrictive. Say 100 acres at minimum? Would discourage a lot of parcelling off and make the nonresident have substantial skin in the game

I'd want it at 40, but that's just because that's where I started and is a good entry point for working on the property with habitat projects.

I don't want to go with an outfitter. I don't want to pay for my animal. I want to have some part in the strategy and reason for it to have been there.

 

[BenA]

We're closing in on common ground but that's way too small . I don't want to see Iowa chopped up into 100 after tracts.

Then we're back to making it a rich man's sport.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’m just throwing out ideas. I don’t know the right answer…and even if i did no one is listening to me. My wife doesn’t listen to me and I’m sure I’ve presented some revolutionary ideas!
I do think it’s great carrot to dangle to nonresidents AND residents. Invest substantially in our state and resource and we will treat you to all the advantages of a resident and to the resident, stop chopping up your land and it will be more desirable

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Then we're back to making it a rich man's sport.

Only if you want to get the benefits of being a resident in another state. I don’t see a problem with that. Not crazy expensive to hunt Iowa, you just need to wait so they don’t water down the experience.

 

[BenA]

Maybe the whole solution is to make it illegal to make money off of wild game.

 

[hillrunner]

Then we're back to making it a rich man's sport.

Exactly the opposite, keeping it affordable for residents. Chopping it up into small parcels so nr can get a tag would drive the land price through the roof and access through the floor.
It's hard to overstate how much attention Iowa has on it. The only thing keeping the average Iowan in the game is limited nr tags.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Maybe the whole solution is to make it illegal to make money off of wild game.

No filming on public land would be one of my first orders of business if I were president of the game association. No outfitting would be second. No bait third.

 

[BenA]

Exactly the opposite, keeping it affordable for residents. Chopping it up into small parcels so nr can get a tag would drive the land price through the roof and access through the floor.
It's hard to overstate how much attention Iowa has on it. The only thing keeping the average Iowan in the game is limited nr tags.

I can't afford what you're describing any more than an average Iowa resident can.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

No filming on public land would be one of my first orders of business if I were president of the game association. No outfitting would be second. No bait third.

Missouri created a permit program where any person looking to film on public land for profit has to pay $500 per day. I actually think that's a pretty good compromise. At some point the states understand that some content creation is good free marketing. I have no idea how they enforce it if at all, though.

 

[SwampCat]

I agree with everything you said except I bet I differ in one area. I think nonresident landowners (of a certain size) should be treated the same as residents. I’ve listed the reasons before but the cliffs are they pay more in taxes than they use and generally they are more infested in the state than a large amount of residents.

Do you think you pay as much in sales tax as the average KY resident? How about state income tax? Do you think you support local business to the same extent as KY residents. Do you license your vehicles, boats, trailers in KY? Property tax is but a very small portion of the taxes I pay annually. If a NR bought my land - they would pay in taxes a very small portion of what I paid. I just paid $4200 in sales tax on a vehicle I bought. Would a NR do that?

 

[BenA]

I just want to hunt on the land my wife and I worked to buy in an area capable of producing the type of deer we wanted. I didn't want to uproot our family to move away from jobs and other family to do it. I wanted to work with the land to make it a place where deer wanted to be. I didn't displace a local. They didn't want the land. It was for sale without restrictions. I had an offer for almost 4x's what we paid for it. The people wanted to divide it into "homesteads". I said no. But, if there comes a time, when the residents of that state decide not to let me hunt on my own land, or they want to decide i can only do it every few years, that property will be subdivided up so I can provide housing for multiple residents of that state.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Do you think you pay as much in sales tax as the average KY resident? How about state income tax? Do you think you support local business to the same extent as KY residents. Do you license your vehicles, boats, trailers in KY? Property tax is but a very small portion of the taxes I pay annually. If a NR bought my land - they would pay in taxes a very small portion of what I paid. I just paid $4200 in sales tax on a vehicle I bought. Would a NR do that?

As much…maybe. More than some way less than others. But how much do I consume? Almost nothing. So I’m a net positive in those terms